Robert Scoble
Leading Member
Note, I didn't sell grey. Our mail order store didn't play games. Of course, it wasn't profitable either.Just one -- how did you sleep at night?
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Getting around Grey- Buy Direct
- Thread starter will roberts
- Start date
Robert Scoble
Leading Member
Good points!
henry you are the best i love reading your responses
beam me up scotty
im giving it all shes got captain
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beam me up scotty
im giving it all shes got captain
Robert Scoble
Leading Member
That's true. There are always exceptions to every rule.
Really? Do you know of a single camera store that always charges the same price in store as they advertise in the back of the photo magazines? Or even quote on the phone.
I visit New York often and it's a rare day indeed that I get the same price in store.
In fact, I often call the store on my cell phone after visiting, and find the mail order price is almost always lower. I'll check your store out next time I'm in New York.
Robert Scoble
Leading Member
I already admitted I'm also a customer of many New York camera shops. And my friends buy a LOT of equipment (including one who's a very loyal customer of yours).
I will admit that B&H is usually not seen in the same light as the lowlifes like Broadway.
But, then, when I visited you guys last year, your in-store prices were higher than San Jose Camera on almost every item (while your mail order prices were lower).
Do you deny that you charge different prices for mail order and instore visitors?
I'll be in New York on August 20 and will check you out again.
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video Inc.
Senior Member
My lawyer friends live by the credo, "Never ask a question unless you already know the answer." Same here. In fact I DO " know of a single camera store that always charges the same price in store as they advertise in the back of the photo magazines? Or even quote on the phone."
B&H. Really!
Our prices are the same for mail order, web & in-store with the caveat that mail order means s&h fees (which are NOT a profit center) and in-store purchases (and those shipped w/in NYState) incur sales tax.
Call and see. And, the ONLY times our quoted prices don't match our advertised are when the advertised price is MAP & the real selling price is lower. When that's the case, we VOLUNTEER the lower selling price. No magic secret password necessary.
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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video Inc.
Senior Member
The stop hanging out there, eh?
I have NO IDEA what San Jose Camera charges for anything.
Yes. Absolutely.
That's a Tuesday. Drop by. We're open 900 - 7:00. 9th Ave between 33rd & 34th Sts.
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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
Robert Scoble
Leading Member
Yes, but you must admit that even in NYC, there are differences in rent for storefront space and warehouse space. Your mailorder operation doesn't need to be located in the most expensive storefront space.
Well, here I have to wonder. I've watched as large chains have come to take over the world. Places like WallMart and Fry's Electronics. You certainly don't get any handholding in places like these, but consumers seem to like them just fine (and Fry's has certainly grown a LOT more than B&H photo in the past 10 years).
Robert
Robert Scoble
Leading Member
Heh. Do you see my recommending them?
Cool. I wouldn't expect that you would, nor would I expect many people would spend $500 to fly across country to save $10 on a camera.
I'll buy my next purchase from you. Thanks!
I certainly will.
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video Inc.
Senior Member
True & we've been looking at warehouse space in Brooklyn recently, but right now our retail store, mail order staff et al and a huge warehouse reside in mid-Manhattan.
I don't know Fry's but I watch Best Buy expand throughout the East Coast. It's a shame their customer service doesn't match their acreage. I've spent more time than I'd like to admit in their Yonkers & Palisades Mall shops and remain less than bowled over. I'm not sure "consumers seem to like them just fine" as much as consumers have become accustomed to mediocre service and consider the benefit of rock-bottom prices a fair exchange.
Personally, I disagree, but I'm a dinosaur spinning 'Music From Big Pink' as I type.
BTW, don't confuse our decision to remain a single-site entity with growth vis a vis Fry's.
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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
Robert Scoble
Leading Member
Fry's is a large affair, getting huge on the West Coast. Started as a place to get everything for a Silicon Valley startup (from Junk Food to circuit boards). Now they sell a lot of digital cameras and other things. Each store is a huge thing, sorta like a Best Buy.
Me too.
Well, I've seen that these stores keep eating away from the individual stores. It's hard to compete in a market when you only have one store, and Fry's has lower overhead (read: no one who can speak English) and has 15 stores so their advertising costs are lower too.
I hear you. I got out of the industry altogether. Went back to college and now I make a whole lot more money and have a whole lot less stress. By the way, San Jose Camera's sales have gone way down from the early 1980s. They used to have lines of people 20 deep in their store and now I don't see that at all.
I take that to mean that Fry's and the Internet business has had a severe effect on the local store traffic.
True. I wish you all the luck in the world. It's great that you're showing up here. Keep it up!
Ellery Potash
Senior Member
I have some experience with "Gray Market" products in other areas. The relevant factors are as follows:
1. A Manufacturer (such as DURACELL, whom I have been familiar with, in the past) determines the Distributor Price in each geographic region. This price is based on Fixed Manufacturing Costs, Local Advertising Costs, Local Warranty Costs, Supply & Demand, and what the Manufacturer thinks the geographic region can tolerate. A "high standard of living", which the U.S. is recognized for, suggests that we can tolerate a higer cost for the product than someone in, say, Asia or Europe might. It is not unusual for the cost differential being so great that a made-in USA Duracell Battery can be shipped across the Atlantic to Europe, and then back again (against company policy), and arrive back in New York at a lower "Gray Market" cost than a New York Distributor or Manufacturer can buy the product from the domestic Duracell Factory.
2. With a Camera Product, the Manufacturer (ex: Nikon) contracts with a Local Service in the Region (ex: NIKON USA) to provide Warranty Support. The Cost of Warranty Support in the U.S. is, likely, greater than the cost of similar support in Asia or Europe. That cost must be built into the cost of the Camera. This is why a U.S. Warranty / Repair center will not touch a Gray Market Camera.
3. The stuff about removing components (manuals, batteries, charger) from the Gray Market Camera box is NOT an artifact of the Gray Market. It is a dishonest ploy by the Gray Market Dealer to entice you with a rock-bottom Camera Price, only to sell you the needed accessories separately, at inflated prices.
1. A Manufacturer (such as DURACELL, whom I have been familiar with, in the past) determines the Distributor Price in each geographic region. This price is based on Fixed Manufacturing Costs, Local Advertising Costs, Local Warranty Costs, Supply & Demand, and what the Manufacturer thinks the geographic region can tolerate. A "high standard of living", which the U.S. is recognized for, suggests that we can tolerate a higer cost for the product than someone in, say, Asia or Europe might. It is not unusual for the cost differential being so great that a made-in USA Duracell Battery can be shipped across the Atlantic to Europe, and then back again (against company policy), and arrive back in New York at a lower "Gray Market" cost than a New York Distributor or Manufacturer can buy the product from the domestic Duracell Factory.
2. With a Camera Product, the Manufacturer (ex: Nikon) contracts with a Local Service in the Region (ex: NIKON USA) to provide Warranty Support. The Cost of Warranty Support in the U.S. is, likely, greater than the cost of similar support in Asia or Europe. That cost must be built into the cost of the Camera. This is why a U.S. Warranty / Repair center will not touch a Gray Market Camera.
3. The stuff about removing components (manuals, batteries, charger) from the Gray Market Camera box is NOT an artifact of the Gray Market. It is a dishonest ploy by the Gray Market Dealer to entice you with a rock-bottom Camera Price, only to sell you the needed accessories separately, at inflated prices.
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