Canon US Warranty vs B&H Import

Warranties

Many consumers ask what the difference is between a "warranty" and a "guarantee." There is no difference between the terms, but there can be a big difference between the warranties of two similar products manufactured by different firms.

There is a federal law covering warranties called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The law doesn't require manufacturers to issue warranties on their products, but if they do, the warranty must be easy to read and understand. No "legalese," just ordinary language is allowed. Every term and condition must be spelled out in writing.

Magnuson-Moss also creates two types of warranties:

Full Warranty
The label FULL on a warranty means:

A defective product will be fixed (or replaced) free of charge, and within a reasonable time, including removal and reinstallation if necessary.

You will not have to do anything unreasonable to get warranty service (such as shipping a piano to a factory).

The warranty is good for anyone who owns the product during the warranty period.

If a problem is reported and not dealt with during the warranty period, the company is still obligated to deal with the problem even if the warranty runs out.

If the product can't be fixed (or hasn't been after a reasonable number of tries), you get your choice of a new one or money back.

Check what parts the warranty covers. A full warranty may not cover the whole product. It may cover only part, like the picture tube of a TV.

Limited Warranty

If a warranty gives you anything less than the full warranty, it's LIMITED. A limited warranty may:

Cover only parts, not labor.

Allow only a prorated refund or credit.

Require you to return a heavy product to the store for service (the piano).

Cover only the initial owner.

Charge for handling.

A product can carry a full warranty on part of the product and a limited warranty on the rest.

Magnuson-Moss generally requires manufacturers to make a copy of their warranty available for you to look at before you buy - so you can comparison shop for the best warranty coverage.

Implied Warranty

Implied warranties are rights created by state law, not by the company. The most common implied warranty is that the product you buy is fit for ordinary uses - an electric mixer has to mix, an ice crusher has to crush. If it doesn't, you have a legal right to get your money back. Implied warranties come automatically with every product, even though they may not be written out. However, watch out for "as is" or "no warranty" sales; they cancel out your implied warranty.

Protect Yourself

Read warranties before you buy. Make sure any verbal promises by the sales representative are included in the written warranty. Keep your sales slip with your warranty. You may need it to prove the date you bought the product or that you are the original purchaser.
 
Thanks for all the great info... I wasn't familiar with Delta. I'll have to look at their products and see how that fits into the mix. Most likely I'll go ahead and purchase the gray market lenses.

Jeff Adkisson
http://www.panark.com
 
The link doesn't work directly ... I tried it ... but you can go to the top page and find the relevent Mack reference ... which is something about a shipping damage claim, not warranty service.
What is this link supposed to prove? It went nowhere useful to me .
. other than "ask Dave a question" (for a fee!!)

I saw nothing pertaining to Mack warrantees.
 
The link doesn't work directly ... I tried it ... but you can go to
the top page and find the relevent Mack reference ... which is
something about a shipping damage claim, not warranty service.
Wrong. The issue begins with Mack's refusal to perform warranty service.
 
The link doesn't work directly ... I tried it ... but you can go to
the top page and find the relevent Mack reference ... which is
something about a shipping damage claim, not warranty service.
Wrong. The issue begins with Mack's refusal to perform warranty
service.
It is about a shipping damage screw-up on MAC's part. They would be crazy to do warranty service on an item in that condition. Mac did screw-up but I see only one complaint. I've seen more then one complaint about B&H on this forum but no one says to avoid them at all costs. B&H has made mistakes in the past but I would still deal with them, although my perfered place is Delta. I don't know much about the Mac warranty but I'm not about to condem them because of one person's story about an experience with Mac.

**** you made a few valid and resonable posts in this thread but now you're sounding more like a troll instead of someone offering good advice.
 
1. Generally speaking, there is no functional or physical
difference between gray and Canon USA imported merchandise. One
exception that comes to mind is the EOS 5 is very similar to, but
has a couple of features not found (for patent reasons) in the A2E.
The A2 is a camera manufactured only for North America.

2. Canon USA has been willing to perform, as a matter of courtesy,
warranty and non-warranty repairs on gray market products. This is
a gesture of goodwill and, unlike true warranty service, not
legally enforceable.
Canon Inc has an international warranty on all of their equipment.
Just because they taylor the wording to different areas does not
change the fact that it is an international warranty. The Canon
warranty cards that I've seen have stated this.
As a matter of fact, this is wrong. Canon has in some instances
printed an "international warranty" on SOME of their equipment (EOS
1V is an example) but this is not true across the board. I, too,
And you know this or assume this.
have seen them, but as an attorney with 21 years of official
consumer protection experience and responsibility, I have to say,
Greg, you're wrong to say it's an across the board thing.
We are in a Canon SLR forum so we are talking about camera equipment. How do you know that this is not the case? Have you seen a Canon camera or lens that did not have this?
3. If you buy gray from B&H, the store offers its own warranty
service by its own repair personnel. This is legally enforceable
against B&H. One "down side" I see to this is that the turnaround
time could be longer as independent repair facilities do not always
have immediate access to parts and service information as Canon's
people do. This does not mean in any way that B&H will not make a
good faith effort to honor their warranty, just that it may take
them a bit longer to do so.
Delta buys a MAC warranty for you.
4. I've bought gray lenses and strobes without hesitancy. I would
be reluctant to do so with camera bodies and ESPECIALLY from a
place such as Delta which, for example, is charging MORE for a gray
market D60 than the Canon cooperative price ($2199).
Then you are missing out on the best customer service that is
available. They sell the D60 for what they can get it for plus a
mark-up. On newer items they don't always have a good price but
they do get them in. Someone who really needs a D60 can get one
from Delta sooner then waiting on a long list. Compare prices and
you'll find that Delta almost always beets everyone on price. Look
at the 70-200L IS price difference between B&H and Delta. Delta is
$170.95 cheaper. They also have the lowest advertised price on a
1D.
I appreciate your comments concerning Delta with respect to
everything except the D60 which shows that they are willing to
fleece consumers and take advantage of them. There are other
If you're a lawyer with 21 years experience then why must I explain this to you? The D60 is in high demand everywhere. This means that Delta can not get them much, if any, cheaper then a dealer in the US can get them. They have to add shipping and their profit and then the price comes out higher then you can get it in the US. They obviously have customers that need the camera and are willing to pay the extra cost because they can't get one from a US dealer. Same thing happened with the 1D and as it became available at lower prices Delta has sold it at lower prices. Same goes for the 70-200L IS and the 16-35L. The pricing at Delta followed the same pattern.
dealers who have had USA warranty D60 bodies in stock who have
charged the standard price and not tried to gouge consumers. Yes,
they are free to charge it, but, as the old saying goes, a fool and
his money are soon parted. (I bought my replacement D60, with a
legal warranty, from Canada at a lot less than what Delta is
charging.)

As an aside, check to see if the "Mack warranty" is a warranty or
repair insurance. There is a difference. Who will perform the
service? When? Where? Will you have to pay first and then apply for
reimbursement? What are the exclusions? Again, the Mack "warranty"
could be the greatest thing since sliced bread BUT you need to know
its terms.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for taking the time to explain all this. You have given some very useful information.
Warranties
Many consumers ask what the difference is between a "warranty" and
a "guarantee." There is no difference between the terms, but there
can be a big difference between the warranties of two similar
products manufactured by different firms.

There is a federal law covering warranties called the Magnuson-Moss
Warranty Act. The law doesn't require manufacturers to issue
warranties on their products, but if they do, the warranty must be
easy to read and understand. No "legalese," just ordinary language
is allowed. Every term and condition must be spelled out in writing.

Magnuson-Moss also creates two types of warranties:

Full Warranty
The label FULL on a warranty means:

A defective product will be fixed (or replaced) free of charge, and
within a reasonable time, including removal and reinstallation if
necessary.

You will not have to do anything unreasonable to get warranty
service (such as shipping a piano to a factory).

The warranty is good for anyone who owns the product during the
warranty period.

If a problem is reported and not dealt with during the warranty
period, the company is still obligated to deal with the problem
even if the warranty runs out.

If the product can't be fixed (or hasn't been after a reasonable
number of tries), you get your choice of a new one or money back.
Check what parts the warranty covers. A full warranty may not cover
the whole product. It may cover only part, like the picture tube of
a TV.

Limited Warranty
If a warranty gives you anything less than the full warranty, it's
LIMITED. A limited warranty may:

Cover only parts, not labor.

Allow only a prorated refund or credit.

Require you to return a heavy product to the store for service (the
piano).

Cover only the initial owner.

Charge for handling.
A product can carry a full warranty on part of the product and a
limited warranty on the rest.

Magnuson-Moss generally requires manufacturers to make a copy of
their warranty available for you to look at before you buy - so you
can comparison shop for the best warranty coverage.

Implied Warranty
Implied warranties are rights created by state law, not by the
company. The most common implied warranty is that the product you
buy is fit for ordinary uses - an electric mixer has to mix, an ice
crusher has to crush. If it doesn't, you have a legal right to get
your money back. Implied warranties come automatically with every
product, even though they may not be written out. However, watch
out for "as is" or "no warranty" sales; they cancel out your
implied warranty.

Protect Yourself
Read warranties before you buy. Make sure any verbal promises by
the sales representative are included in the written warranty. Keep
your sales slip with your warranty. You may need it to prove the
date you bought the product or that you are the original purchaser.
 
Somebody found the 1D for $20 more than Delta, that was
US-warranty. It's easy to find it for $100 more than Delta.
I saw on another forum that someone made mention of the 1D going for around $4700 but they didn't say where.
I'll let others decide whether that extra cost is worth the
US-warranty on a $5,000 camera.
They also have the lowest advertised price on a
1D. (referring to Delta)
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
Hi,

The only service I ever required from mack was on a point and shoot 35mm back in 1988. It came with seven years of coverage, inclusive of the Mack extended SERVICE plan that was included in the special price from the source I purchased it from.

Let's please stop referring to the Mack plan as a WARRANTY plan. Almost every state has consumer protection laws that define what is warranty and what is not. Most if not every state defines WARRANTY as the coverage of a new item by the producer of that item, or the producers authorized distributor.

Virtually everything else, especially when coming from a 3rd party, falls under definitions that are usually defined as extended SERVICE plans or extended PROTECTION plans. In essence, these plans are INSURANCE.

Each PLAN has it's own unique terms and conditions. I would HIGHLY

recommend that anyone considering the purchase of any item, photo or not, Delta or not (I don't care one way or the other about Delta) request a copy of the PLAN that will be covering them and READ the plan carefully.

I still have the seven year Mack card from that point and shoot that was purchased in 1984. (I still have the camera too) It is the only Mack card that I have ever had. It is likely that their terms and conditions have changed over the years, but I would be willing to bet that one thing has not changed. The card I have states that Mack "is not responsible for any repairs needed during the manufacturer's original warranty".

Now you buy a lens or a camera with a one year warranty. I'll bet my britches that Mack is not responsible for anything during that one year.

Now buy grey.... Who decides what the "original mfr warranty" is? I'll tell you who... Mack.

I went through my Canon cards last night. I have one, on a 550EX, that is an International Warranty, and does not mention USA anywhere on it. It is the one grey item I have purchased.

I have (2) other items, purchased non-grey, that also state International Warranty. However these two (28-135mm IS and 50mm f2.5 Macro) both state the countries. In one case the card says Canada and USA; the other states Canada, Japan, USA, and I think France and Great Britian (I am at work now). All of my other cards say USA only and do not say International.

My wife is the expert. A lawyer for an auto manufacturer's dedicated finance company that sells extended plans. It is her job to oversee and thus to know the legal coverages. If there is ever an issue, the written language of the warranty card prevails. Make sure it says USA somewhere... No problem if it says International, if it also says USA. But don't play the Forrest Gump "box of chocolates" game with a retailer. Find out what you are going to get in advance... and make sure the price savings is enough to justify the situation...

Frank
The link doesn't work directly ... I tried it ... but you can go to
the top page and find the relevent Mack reference ... which is
something about a shipping damage claim, not warranty service.
Wrong. The issue begins with Mack's refusal to perform warranty
service.
It is about a shipping damage screw-up on MAC's part. They would
be crazy to do warranty service on an item in that condition. Mac
did screw-up but I see only one complaint. I've seen more then one
complaint about B&H on this forum but no one says to avoid them at
all costs. B&H has made mistakes in the past but I would still
deal with them, although my perfered place is Delta. I don't know
much about the Mac warranty but I'm not about to condem them
because of one person's story about an experience with Mac.

**** you made a few valid and resonable posts in this thread but
now you're sounding more like a troll instead of someone offering
good advice.
 
The issue with Mack was quite interesting indeed. I suggest that you read the ENTIRE chain of events which I will briefly summarize below.

A guy sends in his computer to Mack for repair because of a flickering screen. Mack says it arrived with impact damage. Instead of contacting the consumer, who may have had a legitimate claim against the shipper, Mack sends it back to him via a different carrier unrepaired but keeps his $35 check although he later stops payment. Because of this customer lost his functional ability to initiate a claim with the original shipper.

Customer contacts consumer advocate who writes Mack. President of Mack writes back a harshly worded letter accusing customer of misconduct and utterly not addressing the new issue: Mack's actions which deprived customer of a reasonable chance to initiate damaged shipment claim. Consumer advocate writes Mack back explaining the situation, respectfully, in detail. Mack does not reply. Two years have gone by. Still no reply.

What's wrong with the above picture?

Certainly there is more to the story but in the situation I described above Mack apparently not only did not act in its customer's (or its own) best interests but then blew him off.

What Mack should have done, when the computer arrived in such bad shape, is to have immediately contacted the customer to explain the problem. It then would have learned that the computer did not leave the customer in that condition. The next logical step would have been to contact the shipper to initiate and investigate a damage claim.

It is possible that the claim may not have been resolved in the customer's favor, but Mack deprived the customer of any meaningful recourse with the shipper. It's subsequent attitude toward the customer and the consumer advocate is no less than frightening. Even if Mack was initially correct about not repairing the computer, whatever high ground it may have had it forfeited.

Think of it this way. Several years ago I bought a box of Ilford black and white paper. The paper was cut in a crooked manner. I brought the box back to the dealer (per Ilford's instructions) who was skeptical of my claim that the paper was miscut. The skeptical employee, in broad daylight, opened the box and removed the paper. After the shock wore off I looked at him and said, "Why on earth did you expose this entire box of paper to broad daylight? Even if you didn't believe me, you just bought me a whole new box of paper, period."

In the case at hand, Mack's subsequent conduct, even though it may have been initially correct, damaged its customer. Further, anyone reading the tenor of the correspondence from Mack to the consumer advocate would rightly have misgivings about doing any business with Mack. This is not trolling, Greg; it's putting information before people who are free to make their own decision. Yours obviously is different than mine and you are free to believe as you will.

As for B&H, I am glad you mentioned them. They are not perfect and I have had a few minor issues with them over the years. In each instance, however, there was (1) someone at B&H with authority to fix the problem who could be promptly accessed and (2) the problem was fixed. In addition, I spent time at B&H (and several other NYC stores) two years ago as a "secret shopper." I did not see one instance in which B&H employees misled any customer and, in fact, I saw the opposite, i.e., if a B&H employee did not know the answer to a particular product question, he found someone who did. I also did not see any B&H employees trying to "bump" uneducated customers into more expensive merchandise than they needed. (I would note that my experience with and impression of Adorama is close to, but perhaps a step behind, B&H. Adorama seems to have a few more problems, probably due to a bit less modern and efficient management.)
 
1. Generally speaking, there is no functional or physical
difference between gray and Canon USA imported merchandise. One
exception that comes to mind is the EOS 5 is very similar to, but
has a couple of features not found (for patent reasons) in the A2E.
The A2 is a camera manufactured only for North America.

2. Canon USA has been willing to perform, as a matter of courtesy,
warranty and non-warranty repairs on gray market products. This is
a gesture of goodwill and, unlike true warranty service, not
legally enforceable.
Canon Inc has an international warranty on all of their equipment.
Just because they taylor the wording to different areas does not
change the fact that it is an international warranty. The Canon
warranty cards that I've seen have stated this.
As a matter of fact, this is wrong. Canon has in some instances
printed an "international warranty" on SOME of their equipment (EOS
1V is an example) but this is not true across the board. I, too,
And you know this or assume this.
I know this, have seen this and have even questioned Canon USA about the apparent inconsistency.
have seen them, but as an attorney with 21 years of official
consumer protection experience and responsibility, I have to say,
Greg, you're wrong to say it's an across the board thing.
We are in a Canon SLR forum so we are talking about camera
equipment. How do you know that this is not the case? Have you
seen a Canon camera or lens that did not have this?
3. If you buy gray from B&H, the store offers its own warranty
service by its own repair personnel. This is legally enforceable
against B&H. One "down side" I see to this is that the turnaround
time could be longer as independent repair facilities do not always
have immediate access to parts and service information as Canon's
people do. This does not mean in any way that B&H will not make a
good faith effort to honor their warranty, just that it may take
them a bit longer to do so.
Delta buys a MAC warranty for you.
4. I've bought gray lenses and strobes without hesitancy. I would
be reluctant to do so with camera bodies and ESPECIALLY from a
place such as Delta which, for example, is charging MORE for a gray
market D60 than the Canon cooperative price ($2199).
Then you are missing out on the best customer service that is
available. They sell the D60 for what they can get it for plus a
mark-up. On newer items they don't always have a good price but
they do get them in. Someone who really needs a D60 can get one
from Delta sooner then waiting on a long list. Compare prices and
you'll find that Delta almost always beets everyone on price. Look
at the 70-200L IS price difference between B&H and Delta. Delta is
$170.95 cheaper. They also have the lowest advertised price on a
1D.
I appreciate your comments concerning Delta with respect to
everything except the D60 which shows that they are willing to
fleece consumers and take advantage of them. There are other
If you're a lawyer with 21 years experience then why must I explain
this to you? The D60 is in high demand everywhere. This means
that Delta can not get them much, if any, cheaper then a dealer in
the US can get them. They have to add shipping and their profit
and then the price comes out higher then you can get it in the US.
They obviously have customers that need the camera and are willing
to pay the extra cost because they can't get one from a US dealer.
Same thing happened with the 1D and as it became available at lower
prices Delta has sold it at lower prices. Same goes for the
70-200L IS and the 16-35L. The pricing at Delta followed the same
pattern.
dealers who have had USA warranty D60 bodies in stock who have
charged the standard price and not tried to gouge consumers. Yes,
they are free to charge it, but, as the old saying goes, a fool and
his money are soon parted. (I bought my replacement D60, with a
legal warranty, from Canada at a lot less than what Delta is
charging.)

As an aside, check to see if the "Mack warranty" is a warranty or
repair insurance. There is a difference. Who will perform the
service? When? Where? Will you have to pay first and then apply for
reimbursement? What are the exclusions? Again, the Mack "warranty"
could be the greatest thing since sliced bread BUT you need to know
its terms.

Good luck.
Once again, a dealer is free to charge "what the market will bear." Some dealers have chosen to do this. Others have not. It's your choice which you choose to patronize. Paying inflated prices, in my book, only encourages inflated prices.
 
A lovely packet from Canon USA thanking me for purchasing (my Grey) 1D. They also sent me the SAME as USA unit special stickers for guaranteed 3 day turnaround RUSH service should I require it, and a $100 certificate for a discount on out of warranty service. In detail it stated that I could send my 1D for warranty service to either the NJ or CA offices with the addresses stated, and specified the terms of the warranty (not excepting the Grey product) All I had to do to get this was register ONLINE and poof up comes this nice USA warranty packet. I guess that anyone buying grey should be sure to go online and register it. Canon USA seems to take a real liking to this practice, and they reward you with ALL the privedges of having bought it from US dealer. Hmmmm sounds pretty risky to me if I do say so. ;-)
 
I registered my Canadian D60 on the Canon USA site, too.
 
I guess you guys can continue the legal he said and he didn't say pi$$ing contest but it will get you NOWHERE. Now I have the proof in my hands that say IN WRITING I will NOT be excluded. It does NOT say anywhere "excluding product bought Grey Market" or any such thing. Just entitles the bearer of this document to FULL warranty privileges 3 day turn around and all. :-) (It DOES however state that it must be purchased IN the USA.....that's the ONLY exclusion).
Hello -

Does anyone have any experience buying imported (gray market) glass
through B&H? They offer significant discounts on several of the L
lenses I'm thinking about purchasing? They claim the only
difference is the warranty and perhaps packaging... they offer
their own warranty instead.

I've used B&H for years and never had any complaints, but I've also
never bought a $2000 lens before.

Thanks -
Jeff Adkisson
 
Be sure to save that documentation because it's the written warranty that governs (unless provisions are inconsistent with law) and bestows upon you certain legal rights.

Note that Canon does not have the same printed warranties for all of their merchandise. They vary. (I, for example, have the "international warranty" endorsed by Canon USA for my 1VHS.)
 
Okay,
Here's what I have been pointing out.

The top card in this image is an International Warranty that has absolutely no references to the US or USA. None... despite the fact that the title is in English. My local legal expert (admitted to bar in NY, NJ, PA, and CA) says it is not in any way enforcable in the US. (more later on a conversation today with a Canon rep.)



The second card is about as specific as it gets. USA ONLY!!! It DOES NOT say ANYWHERE that it is an International Warranty... so there is no such thing as "across the board" here. Depending on the laws in other countries, the warranty stated on that card is not enforcable anywhere but in the USA. Now you have to admit that if Canon does some cards this way for one country, it is possible that they might do so elsewhere.

The third card is also an International Warranty. It however clearly states the countries where it applies. My resident expert says again, depending on the laws in force in a particular country, if you country is not specified then the warranty likely has no force.

Now I have read more than once in threads here in this forum - on this subject - that some grey items come with NO card at all.

What are YOU going to get? Forest Gump's comment: "life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get".

Caveat Emptor

Frank
The link doesn't work directly ... I tried it ... but you can go to
the top page and find the relevent Mack reference ... which is
something about a shipping damage claim, not warranty service.
Wrong. The issue begins with Mack's refusal to perform warranty
service.
It is about a shipping damage screw-up on MAC's part. They would
be crazy to do warranty service on an item in that condition. Mac
did screw-up but I see only one complaint. I've seen more then one
complaint about B&H on this forum but no one says to avoid them at
all costs. B&H has made mistakes in the past but I would still
deal with them, although my perfered place is Delta. I don't know
much about the Mac warranty but I'm not about to condem them
because of one person's story about an experience with Mac.

**** you made a few valid and resonable posts in this thread but
now you're sounding more like a troll instead of someone offering
good advice.
 
Frank's illustration says it all. As I said, Canon does not consistently issue the same warranty and you need to read each one carefully.
 

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