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Situation Advice Wanted: Client Not Paying - what do you do?

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File a "Theft of Services" charge in criminal court. They usually pay before the court date. Last thing anyone wants is a criminal charge on file.....

If you win that, then file for a claim in civil court. It almost a definite win.....

It's not nice, but it will usually work. People hate seeing the Sheriff at their front door with a warrant.

GenoP

--
Web: http://www.pbase.com/genop754
Send eMail to: [email protected]
 
KennyKB wrote:
Tell them you're willing
KennyKB said:
to accept installments. How about forgiving part of the debt for
referrals?
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Whatever you do, do not do this! If the couple are deadbeats what are the chances their friends will be anything different?

Installments are fine, but yo must have either PD cheques or a credit card on file and you put it through on pre-arranged dates. They get nothing until it i spaid in full. If they jerked you around an interrest rate would not be unreasonable as well, just like EVERY other retailer does (not ice teh 28 1/2 percent department stire credit cards????) Personally, I would mention I charge "XX" amount of interrest, but as long as all payment arew made on time (credit cards go though on the date specified) I would be willing to "wave it" as a sign of good will. One missed payment however, and all interrest (including back interrest) will be charged.

--
Bruce Allen Hendricks MPA, F.Ph.
http://www.impactphotographicdesign.com
 
In today's world where every relative has a camera, you must be paid in full prior to the event. Period.

If they don't pay the balance 2 weeks prior I return the deposit in full and move on. I don't like fly paper.

No ifs, ands, or buts.
 
Did you get a booking fee up front? (Enough to cover your time on the shoot.) If not, that's a rookie mistake. You've been around here long enough that missing this step would surprise me.

Did they see the shots? Maybe they like the free shots that "Uncle Ed" took better than yours. I hope not.

My guess, they over spent on the wedding, went in debt and don't have the cash. They figure you'll have the pics when they get some cash and are ready to buy. Other expenses are more pressing. They'll feed you BS until they have the $$$. You could force the issue by notifying them you'll delete the shots in xxx days unless the pics are purchased or they pay a $xxx image retention fee. Since I suppose they are in breach of contract I wouldn't feel bad about doing that even if its not in your contract. (An image retention fee option might be a good thing to add to your contract.) And, in case they call next year flush with cash, you don't -really- need to delete the pics. Just let them think you will.

If this is big $$$ to you, you can sue them for theft of service. I wouldn't worry about referrals, I doubt you'll get many good referrals from someone who doesn't pay.

Worse case, they are headed into a divorce and will never want the pics. Or they are happy with Uncle Ed's pics. In either case court is your only option.

Cheers,
JB
Todd Avery said:
80% of my paid work are weddings. I'm expensive, but I hand touch
every image I take... it's more art than "photography". Anyhow, not
important.

What do you do when clients are in breech of contract?

I haven't given them any photos, but they haven't paid. My contract
is rather straight forward about payment schedule and delivery of
images. It's normal that it takes people a few weeks, even a month or
two sometimes to pay. BUT, what do you do when it's been months? I
spent a full week on their images and don't get paid for that week
until they decide to pay. It just irritates me like crazy.

I've made a few VERY polite calls, and get 15minute stories with more
holes than swiss cheese, promises of "payment plan"... and then two
more months go by with no contact.

Do you sue? Due you just put the images away and wait for them to
call someday? When they do show up, do you then charge em storage
fees and be a jerk about it?

I've got a few I'd like to be a jerk to, but SO much of my work is
referral business.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
and I usually get the other 50% the day of the wedding AFTER I shoot before I give them anything.

That way I have the images as leverage. Keep in mind, these people have seen NOTHING yet.
 
Lots of wisdom in these forums. Glad to see some of you guys step in and give some of your experiences.

I do charge a lot, and I do get deposits... I USUALLY get 50% a full month in advance to secure the date. Then I USUALLY get the other 50% at the beginning of the day before I actually shoot. Gave these guys a break and we talked about it taking a "few weeks" to get me the rest of the cash. MY MISTAKE, and it won't happen again.

A sign of the times for sure. Again, these people haven't seen ANY images. I don't want to sue them as they know a lot of other young people.

I am drafing some new documents over the weekend. We'll try a more official letter with some slightly harsh verbiage.

THEN if I get no response I will have a second letter with very harsh verbiage.

After that, they ass is goin to court.

AGAIN, thank you to all of you that posted. I thought this thread would drop off the first page really fast.
 
Learn your lesson from this.

ALL MONEY PAID IN FULL before the wedding date - written in contract (you can easily justify this by relating what has happened to you)!

Your reputation is worth everything.

Do not go suing them for the remainder.

Do not go public with their names etc. - otherwise you could be constesting a very costly slander/defamation lawsuit. (Always remember in court nothing is a foregone conclusion)

Just keep their images and move on....forget them and consider this one of life's lessons.

Cheers

Ron
 
I don't shoot many weddings but when I do I get 50% up front to hold the date of which only 25% is refundable if canceled. The remainder is due two weeks prior to wedding. I am quite clear in that I don't show up unless I am paid. No other service working in the industry is extending credit to brides and grooms. Caterer's, florist, bakers, room rentals, churches, dresses, limos are all paid before or at the event why should I be any different.

What you should do is based on your contract. Does your contract clearly indicate payment terms? You have the pictures if they want them they will need to come to you, so wait. Indicate to them that you are not an archiving service and will not guarantee that there images will be available to them if they delay. You can of course provide that service but it will cost them money to do so. Set out terms 3, 6, 12 months.

Weddings are great but your dealing with people so you best have a contract that clearly states what you want. I protects you and your clients as you both know what is to be expected.

--
Enjoy the Day

Paul Guba New Jersey Photographer
http://www.gubavision.com
 
I haven't read through all the other threads so I'm sure this has been mentioned but the biggest and most important thing in my wedding contract:

Wedding must be paid in FULL before the event. If the wedding is not paid in FULL before the event, the photographer will not attend. Period.

It's phrased slightly different in my contract but you get the point.

Weddings are just too crazy to try and expect payment after the event.

As far as collecting after the fact... I don't know. Just keep sending notices and bills. Maybe try to work out a payment schedule.

One think I know I would do is quit working on the photos until you start seeing some money. Don't waste any more time until the contract is paid in full.
 
Look at the election the US just had. It is a mandate for change and a more positive America! Share the wealth!! It is the patriotic thing to do (according to our VP-elect!)

It is time for a change.
We shouldn't all be so greedy.
Look at Enron and Wall Street.

Change can happen.
It can start with you.

--
Certified Professional Master Photographer, Level 3.
Certified Expert on 30 D and on Zoom L Lenses
Working on L Prime Certification
 
With all due respect, you don't seem to grasp the concept of working with the public.
gonzalu said:
but as you said, you have no idea what the situation is... I think
there is NEVER an excuse for not going after what's owed to you.. or
just ask American Express or Chase Bank if they feel the way you do.

There is NEVER an excuse to not go after what is owed to you. Bad
times or good.
Click to expand...
I looked at your website and didn't see a single wedding on it, but yet you are saying to take a hard line. On paper, that's what should be done. In reality, things are a little more nuanced. One person, right or wrong can spread a lot of bad pr.

People will not know that they were the ones in the wrong, all they are gonna hear is that this photographer was terrible to deal with. How much money is that worth.
gonzalu said:
As for bad PR, I would not respect a business that wouldn't fight for
their earned profit. Arrogance is one way to gauge the capabilities
of a business or a person. It does not always work but I think it is
true more often than not.
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That's all I am saying. Everyone has their own way of dealing with things. Some are fast to get worked up and want to sue, others tend to take a more zen approach. Arrogance in business imho is just a way of covering up your flaws.
gonzalu said:
If you are not willing to defend your rights, you should give your
customers lower more affordable prices or give away business (I am
not kidding) otherwise, what's the point of being in business? If it
is Todd's livelihood, I believe he must fight as much as possible to
collect what is due to him.

Finally, with respect to "times are bad" well, they are bad for
everyone, including the photographer who is out of his due money...
and what will be the excuse for him not paying his bills when the
Electric Co. comes asking for their piece of the action? :-)

While you are right in many respects, it is not wrong to defend your
position with all the tools at hand. BTW, how many lawsuits do you
know of that are currently in the courts brought by photographers
against their clients? I don't think there will be ANY PR damage if
even any publicity at all.
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Even if you win in small claims court, you still have to collect (you're back in the same place that you started). Then if you end up using a collection firm, you will lose 30% plus. You have a piece of paper saying they owe you the money, but in the end, you still don't have the money in your hand.
gonzalu said:
--
Manny
http://www.pbase.com/gonzalu/
http://www.mannyphoto.com/
FCAS Member - http://fcasmembers.com/
Click to expand...
--
http://www.kevinfochtphotography.com
 
I'm a general contractor, not a professional photographer. I once had a VERY wealthy guy stiff me for ~$1100.00. He was bored and retired and had nothing better to do than write up a 3-page letter letting me know why he wasn't paying the balance of the contract.

I sent him one email asking him to pay up. He refused. I started a small claims action against him here in Ottawa. It's a very simple process fortunately. Within three days of the court document being mailed to him, he sent me an email asking if I was willing to settle for half.

I agreed to it because I wasn't interested in the time it would take to pursue it further. The main thing for me was vindication that I was in the right. I also had the pleasure of knowing it cost him a lot of money in legal fees because he handled everything through a lawyer.
--

Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
  • Bertrand Russell
Usually, terrible things that are done with the excuse that progress requires them are not really progress at all, but just terrible things.
  • Russell Baker
 
Todd Avery said:
and I usually get the other 50% the day of the wedding AFTER I shoot
before I give them anything.

That way I have the images as leverage. Keep in mind, these people
have seen NOTHING yet.
Click to expand...
Okay, I'm confused here.

In your original post, you stated that this particular wedding couple HAS NOT paid you anything (prehaps they've paid you 50% upfront, as you've indicated in this thread), BUT, presumably they have not paid you IN FULL so far, months after the wedding. Am I close?

Okay. My confusion arises from the fact that you state here that your normal routine is for you to get 50% UPFRONT and then you get the "other" 50% for your services from the couple on the day of the wedding - correct? So, what happened to this routine? Where did this procedure break down that caused you to end up not being FULLY paid for your work BEFORE so many months have passed since the wedding? And, WHY would you CONTINUE to provide your services, for so many months afterwards, by going a head and "hand" processing the images when you STILL have not been paid in full? How does having the "images as leverage" help you at all if this is how you handled getting paid in this instance?

I mean, that IS what you're most concerned with, correct? That you may very well not get paid for having spent so much time "hand" processing each individual image after the fact? What possessed you to keep working on these images when you had not been paid in full to begin with? Charity?

Look, I feel that you most certainly have every right to be paid for your hard work. Obviously, you care very much about your client's satisfaction.

However, if you don't get paid for the extensive work you've done on the wedding couple's images, since the wedding was over, and you aren't willing to take this wedding couple to court over the whole issue (if they keep putting you off, etc...), then quite frankly, it's your own fault for having invested so much of your valuable time when you knew that you hadn't been paid in full from the very beginning.

Examine your contract, make sure all your t's are crossed, and your i's are dotted, consult a lawyer and then take it from there if you feel you have a good enough case to pursue further legal action (if it's that important to you).

Otherwise, sounds to me like you've screwed yourself over, where your lossed time is concerned, and NO ONE on here is going to be able to help you with that, either in this case, or in future instances. There may be members on here, who've had similar experiences, and might be able to offer some meager suggestions, sure. But, consider this a valuable learning experience, and NEXT time, don't be so "charitable" with your valuable time until AFTER you've been paid in-full. ;)

Good luck to you!

--
bryan
--------
http://bryanw.zenfolio.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oakandacorns/sets/



Canon 50D Images: http://bryanw.zenfolio.com/p949109255
 
No need for everyone to be so greedy.

--
Certified Professional Master Photographer, Level 3.
Certified Expert on 30 D and on Zoom L Lenses
Working on L Prime Certification
 
dweerden wrote:
I also had the pleasure of knowing it cost him a
dweerden said:
lot of money in legal fees because he handled everything through a
lawyer.
--
Click to expand...
Many people have their lawyers do these sort of things gratis. Probably had some low level intern modify a form letter. Not sure why you would get pleasure in someone else's discomfort anyway. That sounds weird.

Certified Professional Master Photographer, Level 3.
Certified Expert on 30 D and on Zoom L Lenses
Working on L Prime Certification
 
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