Lightroom 2 printed pics do not match the web gallery photos

First, I am new to LR2. Second,I use to convert my RAW files in Camera RAW 4.5 before switching to LR2. HERE IS MY PROBLEM. I now convert/edite my RAW files(LR2) , then uploaded to my SSP web gallery; http://www.keithriggsphotography.com The client viewed the photos online and loved them. I went to have them printed and the lab had problems with the colors/clarity of the jpegs. the colors were off and they had to do corrections. The photos still didn't look as good as the webgallery photos. Colors were dull and less vibrant. I took the jpegs to 2 labs; (1) Costco (yes I am aware that this is not the most professional lab) and (2) Image Finishers (yes a professional local lab all the local photographers use) The photos still looked crummy. My Canon camera color space is set to AdobeRGB. When I edit and save to jpeg in Adobe Elements 6 the color space is set to ProPhoto RGB. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated. (long winded and potential confusing)

KeithLLM said:

My Canon camera color space is set to AdobeRGB.
When I edit and save to jpeg in Adobe Elements 6 the color space is
set to ProPhoto RGB. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.
(long winded and potential confusing)

Click to expand...

You have color profile issues.

It would take too much time to explain, but camera color space does not matter if you're dealing with raw in lightroom.

I think converting your jpg's to sRGB color profile would solve your problems. When I say converting, I don't mean attaching color profile, but converting to profile.

The reason you're seeing correct colors on web (and your client as well) is because lightroom does conversion to sRGB automatically.

Two issues you could have in general though:

a) is your monitor color profiled? If not, you'll never be sure what you'll get in print, or how others will see colors on web site created by you

b) I'm not sure Elements 6 is color profile aware application, I used version 5 before i want to full photoshop, and it was not color aware if I'm not much mistaken, so you could have an issue with conversion there. Instead of elements, try to export jpg's from lightroom

Thanks for the reply. (1) I have calibrated my monitor using x-rite, but the client is viewing the web gallery on their laptop monitor, not my monitor. They also have the jpegs and the jpegs look duller and less vivid than the ones in gallery. I am not sure if converting the RAW files in Elements6 is the root of the problem. Can I save the RAW to jpeg within LR2 (once again new to LR2, so forgive my ignorance.) (2)Elements 6 has color profile settings, in the Editor mode click on the Edit tab, scroll down to color settings. (3) I am a member of the Scott Kelby tutorial, I was watching Matt kloskowski tutorial on LR2 and he recommended for external editing set the Color Space to ProPhot RGB, so that is what I did. Did I make a mistake? Thanks for the help and patience.

Yes, use Pro photo rgb all the way till the "end", "end" being file you're going to send to print or show to clients, either through web gallery or jpg's delivery, then you have to convert to sRGB (maybe not in some special cases, but yours is not one of them).

So, what you did is, you:

a) made gallery from lightroom, where lightroom converted gallery jpg's into sRGB profile, which is the reason why your clients can see images on web gallery as you intended (if you did not know, lightroom actually generates small jpg's for your web gallery)

b) you made jpg's from elements with Pro Photo color profile, and your printing lab assumes it's sRGB profile and displays dull color, same with your client computer, which can not display correctly Pro photo jpg's. Only thing you have to do is to save jpg's with sRGB profile, instead of Pro Photo profile from elements, and this will solve your issues.

And yeah, you can export jpg's from lightroom, file => export tick sRGB profile when exporting (but you can use Elements as well since they are color managed as you say)

One other tip:

There's a free image viewer, irfan view, download it and open jpg's you send to print and came out dull. What you'll see in irfan view will probably look like what you got in print. And actually this is a good check for weather you converted to correct profile. (The reason for this is Irfan view is not color managed application and will ignore your jpg's color (Pro photo) settings)

KeithLLM said:

I am not sure if converting the RAW files in Elements6 is the root of the problem.

Click to expand...

it's your workflow that's not clear to me from this sentence. You should not convert raw files in elements if you have lightroom.

Your workflow should be something like: import raw files in lightroom, organize and keyword them in library module. Develop (raw convert) imported raw files in develop module in lightroom.

After you're done with raw conversion in lightroom, you are ready to create your, what some people call, master files. These are high quality, non destructive, flat files, meaning tiff or psd extension.

Editor for those files will in your case be Elements.

You do that by setting Elements as external editor in lightroom (Edit -> preferences -> External Editing -> you'll choose Elements) chose tiff for file format, Pro Photo RGB for color space, 16 bit depth for highest quality masters.

When you're done with raw conversion in lightroom, chose Photo -> edit in -> Elements.

You are now working on master file in Pro photo color space in Elements. In here you can do adjustment layers, retouching, or whatever you do.

When you're done, save master file as tiff.

From that master file you'll create jpg's for print, web gallery and to deliver to client.

You do that, by creating jpg converted to sRGB color space, which is the final output file.

Please ignore parts of my explanation you're familiar with.

"for external editing set the Color Space to ProPhot RGB"

Yeh, but your not just doing external editing (e.g., photoshop), your outputting at a printer.

Unless the printer specifies otherwise, CONVERT from ProPhoto to sRGB before sending off your files.

Thanks for the advice I will give it a try. I went back and exported my RAW files to my desktop and clicked on the sRGB color profile. I went back to the photolab and the photos came back dull and muted again. I am very confused. Please take a sec and visit http://www.keithriggsphotography.com These are the photos the client is seeing. When I compare against the jpegs on my CD, they look the same, but the photos printed from the CD are dull and muted. I am at a loss. PLease help.

Thank you so much. I am new to LR2 and was not sure what my workflow should be like and how to incorporate PSE6. I have copied your advice and it is saved on my desktop as 'Lightroom Workflow'

I installed Irfanview on my PC. When I open the photos with the software that are on my disk they look the same as the ones in my gallery, http://www.keithriggsphotography.com

I exported the RAW files to jpegs on my desktop with sRGB as my color space. Then I burned to disk and printed @ the LAB. The photos were Flat/Dull almost hazy. I do not understand what is happening.