So how much do you think the 5d Mk II Should be?

albertwesker · Nov 16, 2008

You my friend, like me, are a dying breed in this world.

I won't say much other than your post is absolutely what is wrong with America today. Hand out syndrome. Actually it should be more so that you should buy a camera for everyone else who wants one!

Not wanting to sink this thread politically, but I had to reply. HA.

--
I say it like it is

thx1138 · Nov 16, 2008

Okami said:
--
After seeing all these complaints about the camera and price
increases etc etc..

What is actually the most you would pay for this camera? I think the
current 2699$ USD is very fair and though I hope Canon doesn't take
this to heart I would have paid 3k for it (still a chance i might
on ebay if i don't get my preorder early enough).

Skip M · Nov 16, 2008

.

Rootbeer said:
Rootbeer said:

Why aren't you considering what the other source told you, that is
was to sell for $2400? Why are you taking the lower estimate, the
more out of line one? The 20D didn't drop in price until it was
supersceded in the lineup by the 30D, so it's obvious that source
didn't really have a handle on pricing.
The 5D did, eventually, drop to $2400, so that's a more likely
scenario, in hindsight.

Click to expand...

Rootbeer said:
Good question,... It's because the out of state source is getting his
info second hand, while the "local" source is a product tester.. (one
of several who I personally know)..

Hmm. My source, if you can call it that, even loosely, is a local product tester, too. It wasn't until later that I put 2 and 2 together, he told me that there was a new full frame camera coming out, but he wasn't at liberty to say from whom. He said it would be under $4k, which, IIRC, was what a Kodak 14c was going for at the time. It was only after the 5D came out that I figured out what he was talking about. Now, I know that $1500 is under $4,000, too, but that's a lot of difference. But, really, would you expect to pay the same for a full frame metal bodied 12mp camera as you would a crop frame, plastic/metal hybrid 8mp camera? 'Cause that's what you are saying, vis a vis the 5D and its contemporary 20D.

--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

Skip M · Nov 16, 2008

Rootbeer said:
Michael_J said:

Rootbeer wrote:

Click to expand...

.....That is possible.. I was thinking that maybe he relayed
incorrect info to me, ..perhaps the "base price" was $1,500.00, and
the selling price was $2,400.00 like my other friend from out of
state mentioned.. That is possible,...but since my local source has
been spot-on going back to the EOS 3 with specs, and pretty close
with price..(within 500 bucks), I ...trust what he had to say. I just
believe he told me what he was told.

Wow, $500 is a whopping amount to be off on a camera that was $1300 on introduction. Which did he tell you, $700 or $1800. Because one was the price an A2e was selling for at that time, and the other is the price the 1v came in at... Maybe he was confusing the intro price of the 30D with that of the 20D?
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

grammieb14 · Nov 16, 2008

should be given to any grandmother over 60 who wants one. That would be me.
--
One day I'll learn how to post photos. I am 61 & technically challenged.

Rootbeer · Nov 16, 2008

DaveWC said:
Rootbeer said:

Gosh Dave.. LOL..

I'm buying the damn camera because I could use one. I don't like that
it costs $2,699.99, before I have to buy a grip..(some 400 or so
bucks) plus 4 batteries...(another 400 or so bucks),...but that is
what I am faced with.

Click to expand...

So obviously, in your mind, this camera is worth $2,699. Otherwise
you'd be nuts to pay that. No one likes paying what something is
worth, but that doesn't detract from its value.

duh!

Rootbeer · Nov 16, 2008

Skip M said:
Rootbeer said:

Michael_J said:

Rootbeer wrote:

Click to expand...

.....That is possible.. I was thinking that maybe he relayed
incorrect info to me, ..perhaps the "base price" was $1,500.00, and
the selling price was $2,400.00 like my other friend from out of
state mentioned.. That is possible,...but since my local source has
been spot-on going back to the EOS 3 with specs, and pretty close
with price..(within 500 bucks), I ...trust what he had to say. I just
believe he told me what he was told.

Click to expand...

Wow, $500 is a whopping amount to be off on a camera that was $1300
on introduction. Which did he tell you, $700 or $1800. Because one
was the price an A2e was selling for at that time, and the other is
the price the 1v came in at... Maybe he was confusing the intro
price of the 30D with that of the 20D?
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

The "within 500 dollars" discrepancy was on the 1D body.. "going back to the EOS 3" not .."the EOS 3"...pardon me for not making that more clear.... actually he was off by 400 bucks.. He said 6K for the 1D body.. it retailed for 5,600.00, pardon me..

Skip M · Nov 17, 2008

Rootbeer said:
Skip M said:

Rootbeer said:

Michael_J said:

Rootbeer wrote:

Click to expand...

.....That is possible.. I was thinking that maybe he relayed
incorrect info to me, ..perhaps the "base price" was $1,500.00, and
the selling price was $2,400.00 like my other friend from out of
state mentioned.. That is possible,...but since my local source has
been spot-on going back to the EOS 3 with specs, and pretty close
with price..(within 500 bucks), I ...trust what he had to say. I just
believe he told me what he was told.

Click to expand...

Wow, $500 is a whopping amount to be off on a camera that was $1300
on introduction. Which did he tell you, $700 or $1800. Because one
was the price an A2e was selling for at that time, and the other is
the price the 1v came in at... Maybe he was confusing the intro
price of the 30D with that of the 20D?
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

Click to expand...

The "within 500 dollars" discrepancy was on the 1D body.. "going back
to the EOS 3" not .."the EOS 3"...pardon me for not making that more
clear.... actually he was off by 400 bucks.. He said 6K for the 1D
body.. it retailed for 5,600.00, pardon me..

Well, since no one mentioned the 1D in this conversation, you can see how I didn't know that was what you meant. And, ".but since my local source has

Rootbeer said:
Rootbeer said:

Rootbeer said:

been spot-on going back to the EOS 3 with specs, and pretty close
with price..(within 500 bucks)" seemed pretty clear.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

Skip M · Nov 17, 2008

Rootbeer said:
Yep, "what if".. (to both SkipM & MichaelJ)

a hypothetical question.. / for the sake of discussion.. We have seen
this on a smaller level with a camera that does have a direct
competitor in it's class, the MkIII.. which was sold for 500 bucks
more than what it is selling for right now..

The 5D on the other hand, didn't have a close competing model in it's
class, until the D700 was released only recently, but at a much
higher price, because Nikon could get away with charging that much..

Whoa, what you're saying is that, while the D700 is competition for the 5D, the 5D is not competition for the 5D? Or, if they are competitors, and Nikon introduced their FF pro/sumer body at a higher price than the Canon version, doesn't that validate Canon's pricing? Nikon could introduce the D700 at a price lower than Canon's initial price for the 5D three years ago because many of the D700's systems were shared with another camera, sensor and viewfinder with the D3, focus system with the D3 and D300, body with the D300. The D300 could be known by a term from the auto industry, a "parts bin special." The 5D only shared some of its electronics and part of its focus system with other cameras. This allows Nikon economies of scale not availble to Canon on the 5D.

I'm not sure what the hypothetical question is, could you clarify?

--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

DaveWC · Nov 17, 2008

Rootbeer said:
duh!

Good one. That pretty much sums up your contribution to this thread. The 5DII is worth $1,500 FIRM, but I've put $200 down on the camera selling for $2,699.

Duh indeed.

Rootbeer · Nov 17, 2008

DaveWC said:
Rootbeer said:

Gosh Dave.. LOL..

I'm buying the damn camera because I could use one. I don't like that
it costs $2,699.99, before I have to buy a grip..(some 400 or so
bucks) plus 4 batteries...(another 400 or so bucks),...but that is
what I am faced with.

Click to expand...

So obviously, in your mind, this camera is worth $2,699. Otherwise
you'd be nuts to pay that. No one likes paying what something is
worth, but that doesn't detract from its value.

So obviously the camera is worth 2,699.99 to me because I am going to have to buy one..????? No, actually having that tool as part of my arsenal it is worth many many times that to my business, which you clearly know not a damn thing about Duh!...err... I mean Dave! As I stated, I'll have to buy one regardless if it is selling for 5 bucks or 5 thousand bucks!

Go educate yourself on business related issues before you blast me for my contributions to these threads, for you are clearly clueless based on your own statement!

DaveWC · Nov 17, 2008

Rootbeer said:
So obviously the camera is worth 2,699.99 to me because I am going to
have to buy one..????? No, actually having that tool as part of my
arsenal it is worth many many times that to my business, which you
clearly know not a damn thing about Duh!...err... I mean Dave! As I
stated, I'll have to buy one regardless if it is selling for 5 bucks
or 5 thousand bucks!

Go educate yourself on business related issues before you blast me
for my contributions to these threads, for you are clearly clueless
based on your own statement!

No. You're not going to have to buy one. You choose to buy one. Big difference. And it's ridiculous to say something is worth $1,500 but be willing to pay $2,700 for it. Oh. My mistake. I didn't realize that your business relied on you owning a Canon 5DII. No idea how you managed to be profitable until now. Apparently you are required to own the latest 5D offering from Canon to stay above water. Why? Because everyone will have one... so of course you must too. Your current cameras will cease to be profitable as soon as the 5DII is made available.

What a joke you've turned out to be. Sounds like Canon is doing you a favor only charging $2,700. You're so bent on buying this specific model you'd sell the farm to get it. And yet it's only worth $1,500 FIRM in your previous post. Ha ha ha, clearly clueless he says.

Rootbeer · Nov 17, 2008

Skip M said:
Skip M said:

Yep, "what if".. (to both SkipM & MichaelJ)

a hypothetical question.. / for the sake of discussion.. We have seen
this on a smaller level with a camera that does have a direct
competitor in it's class, the MkIII.. which was sold for 500 bucks
more than what it is selling for right now..

The 5D on the other hand, didn't have a close competing model in it's
class, until the D700 was released only recently, but at a much
higher price, because Nikon could get away with charging that much..

Click to expand...

Whoa, what you're saying is that, while the D700 is competition for
the 5D, the 5D is not competition for the 5D? Or, if they are
competitors, and Nikon introduced their FF pro/sumer body at a higher
price than the Canon version, doesn't that validate Canon's pricing?
Nikon could introduce the D700 at a price lower than Canon's initial
price for the 5D three years ago because many of the D700's systems
were shared with another camera, sensor and viewfinder with the D3,
focus system with the D3 and D300, body with the D300. The D300
could be known by a term from the auto industry, a "parts bin
special." The 5D only shared some of its electronics and part of its
focus system with other cameras. This allows Nikon economies of
scale not availble to Canon on the 5D.

I'm not sure what the hypothetical question is, could you clarify?

--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

The way I see it,... is that the D700 is above the 5D.. and priced accordingly.. I believe that Nikon designed it to be a 5D eater.. not a competing camera..

The 5D2 appears to be in a class of it's own.

Last year, there was some chit chat about a 16mp 5fps xxD type of FF body.. That would have been nice if Canon ever decided to produce that sort of body, but I believe that they wanted something that puts a bit more distance between the D700 & the 5D upgrade, and designed the 5D2 for just that purpose.. not necessarily above or bellow the D700, but by "far out" / away..from it.. Like in a different direction.

Who knows,... I'm not some expert in this sort of thing.. I'm just a photographer.. I take pictures. I buy their stuff because I have invested in their system that switching now would cost me a bundle..

Cheers!

DaveWC · Nov 17, 2008

Where I come from when someone says FIRM after a price that means that they won't budge from that price. In your lexicon FIRM means that's what you want to pay for a product, but since the company's marketing dept has convinced you that you must have the product for your business to survive you would pay $5 grand for it. So FIRM really has no meaning to you, just wishful thinking. No idea how you stay in business regardless of getting this camera. Especially if it depends on getting the 5DII.

Rootbeer · Nov 17, 2008

DaveWC said:
Rootbeer said:

So obviously the camera is worth 2,699.99 to me because I am going to
have to buy one..????? No, actually having that tool as part of my
arsenal it is worth many many times that to my business, which you
clearly know not a damn thing about Duh!...err... I mean Dave! As I
stated, I'll have to buy one regardless if it is selling for 5 bucks
or 5 thousand bucks!

Go educate yourself on business related issues before you blast me
for my contributions to these threads, for you are clearly clueless
based on your own statement!

Click to expand...

No. You're not going to have to buy one. You choose to buy one.
Big difference.

.....Yes, if I want to stay competitive....another aspect of business you clearly know nothing about..

DaveWC said:
And it's ridiculous to say something is worth $1,500
but be willing to pay $2,700 for it.

....That's your opinion based on not knowing anything about running a business.. FYI, I don't plan to break even.. I plan to make a big profit.

DaveWC said:
Oh. My mistake. I didn't
realize that your business relied on you owning a Canon 5DII. No
idea how you managed to be profitable until now.

.....By offering competitive service for competitive prices, and by a reputation for being reliable, doing good work, and keeping my overhead costs low..etc..etc..

...Oh sure, when you have competitors who are popping up with 21 MP bodies, it doesn't take a dummy to know that 21 is a lot more than 12, or 16.. Right now, I don't know any of my competitors who are using anything less than 8mp.. Most are shooting with 1DsII & III bodies. ..or MkII, IIn, & III, or D3 bodies for sports and weddings..

DaveWC said:
Apparently you are
required to own the latest 5D offering from Canon to stay above
water. Why? Because everyone will have one... so of course you must
too.

....Yes, that is why.

DaveWC said:
Your current cameras will cease to be profitable as soon as the
5DII is made available.

.....Completely untrue. They are paid for,..(many many many many many many times over..) they work well, they can be used as second / back-ups, they can be used as remotes, I can use them for dangerous shots like shooting in water with the level up to my tripod head, or doing street photography where I am covering civil unrest, or in the streets of the ghetto, which I find myself working in for publishers from time to time.. I'll drop my insurance coverage on them, I'll maintain them, & I will keep using them.

DaveWC said:
What a joke you've turned out to be. Sounds like Canon is doing you
a favor only charging $2,700.

....That's one way of looking at it.. Heck, I bought a pair of D30 bodies that retailed for 3K each,...because my competition had digital slr bodies back in 2001.. I guess I could have been glad that they didn't charge me 6,000 each for those too, right..?

DaveWC said:
You're so bent on buying this specific
model you'd sell the farm to get it. And yet it's only worth $1,500
FIRM in your previous post. Ha ha ha, clearly clueless he says.

......No,...I'd be willing to pay up to 5K for it. However, I'll just wait for the 1DMkIV for that much, since the 5D2 isn't going to suit all of my needs. I need a fast camera, and the 5D2 is a snail of a camera with spectacular image quality.

$1,500.00 firm is what I believe it should be selling for, not how much I'd be willing to pay for it... big difference.. duh!

Yeah, clueless you are... and lack the ability to comprehend anything from a simple forum topic message, to business matters.. You aren't the expert...please don't pretend to be, because you are clearly making a fool out of yourself.

Rootbeer · Nov 17, 2008

DaveWC said:
Where I come from when someone says FIRM after a price that means
that they won't budge from that price. In your lexicon FIRM means
that's what you want to pay for a product, but since the company's
marketing dept has convinced you that you must have the product for
your business to survive you would pay $5 grand for it. So FIRM
really has no meaning to you, just wishful thinking. No idea how you
stay in business regardless of getting this camera. Especially if it
depends on getting the 5DII.

Topic:

Subject: So how much do you think the 5d Mk II Should be?

My answer: $1,500.00 firm.

......that is what I think the price of it should be. Not a penny more, not a penny less. Not the price I'm willing to pay for one, because I happen to need a body of that type.

Am I breaking through to you there Dave..?? Hello..?? Dave..? Anyone home...? Knock..knock..

DaveWC · Nov 17, 2008

Rootbeer said:
Yeah, clueless you are... and lack the ability to comprehend anything
from a simple forum topic message, to business matters.. You aren't
the expert...please don't pretend to be, because you are clearly
making a fool out of yourself.

There has been a 21mp Canon available for over a year... the 1DSIII. You don't "need" the 5DII to avoid showing up with a lower mp camera. Although it's much cheaper then the 1DSIII... another sign of what a great deal it is. But if you've done without a 1DSIII for the last year then your customers have found some way to forgive you for not having a 21mp camera, when others own them. And if you have a 1DSIII then what's the urgency of owning a 5DII? As I said, to hear you speak, your business relies on you owning this specific camera. I'm amazed you're in business at all. It sounds more like you're just a gear head who needs the latest. Somehow I think if you had been showing up with a 1DSIII and continued to show up with a 1DSIII your customers would understand. This thread has definitely taken a turn into the twilight zone. I wonder how many other professionals out there will go out of business if they don't immediately get a 5DII. I'd love to hear from them.

Skip M · Nov 17, 2008

Rootbeer said:
Skip M said:

Rootbeer said:

Yep, "what if".. (to both SkipM & MichaelJ)

a hypothetical question.. / for the sake of discussion.. We have seen
this on a smaller level with a camera that does have a direct
competitor in it's class, the MkIII.. which was sold for 500 bucks
more than what it is selling for right now..

The 5D on the other hand, didn't have a close competing model in it's
class, until the D700 was released only recently, but at a much
higher price, because Nikon could get away with charging that much..

Click to expand...

Whoa, what you're saying is that, while the D700 is competition for
the 5D, the 5D is not competition for the 5D? Or, if they are
competitors, and Nikon introduced their FF pro/sumer body at a higher
price than the Canon version, doesn't that validate Canon's pricing?
Nikon could introduce the D700 at a price lower than Canon's initial
price for the 5D three years ago because many of the D700's systems
were shared with another camera, sensor and viewfinder with the D3,
focus system with the D3 and D300, body with the D300. The D300
could be known by a term from the auto industry, a "parts bin
special." The 5D only shared some of its electronics and part of its
focus system with other cameras. This allows Nikon economies of
scale not availble to Canon on the 5D.

I'm not sure what the hypothetical question is, could you clarify?

--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

Click to expand...

The way I see it,... is that the D700 is above the 5D.. and priced
accordingly.. I believe that Nikon designed it to be a 5D eater.. not
a competing camera...

Yeah, probably. But on the idea of what Canon should charge for a camera vs what they do, the D700 would seem to be overpriced, or at least leaving lot o' room to adjust the price, should it be necessary. Why do I say that? Because of the amount of stuff in the D700 that is used in another camera, or cameras. That means they can spread the cost of R&D, tooling and manufacture over a wider number of cameras than Canon can with the 5D or 5D mkII. In a way, it would have made more financial sens for Canon to include 1D type focusing in the 5D mkII, since they could amortize the cost over a wider base.

Rootbeer said:
The 5D2 appears to be in a class of it's own.

So far. But it's not going to get anyone to switch from Nikon, I'll bet. The D90, even if it's not the same res as the 5D mkII, gives Nikon users an alternative that doesn't require investment in another system. Now, defections from other systems, like Pentax or Oly? Maybe, maybe not.

Rootbeer said:
Last year, there was some chit chat about a 16mp 5fps xxD type of FF
body.. That would have been nice if Canon ever decided to produce
that sort of body, but I believe that they wanted something that puts
a bit more distance between the D700 & the 5D upgrade, and designed
the 5D2 for just that purpose.. not necessarily above or bellow the
D700, but by "far out" / away..from it.. Like in a different
direction.

Check this out, if you haven't already heard this one:
http://www.canonrumors.com/2008/10/18/canon-eos-1di/

Rootbeer said:
Who knows,... I'm not some expert in this sort of thing.. I'm just a
photographer.. I take pictures. I buy their stuff because I have
invested in their system that switching now would cost me a bundle..

Yah, me too, on all points!
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

DaveWC · Nov 17, 2008

Rootbeer said:
...Oh sure, when you have competitors who are popping up with 21 MP
bodies, it doesn't take a dummy to know that 21 is a lot more than
12, or 16.. Right now, I don't know any of my competitors who are
using anything less than 8mp.. Most are shooting with 1DsII & III
bodies. ..or MkII, IIn, & III, or D3 bodies for sports and weddings..

So what you are saying is that larger MP cameras are a necessity to your livelihood and if a competitor shows up with a Sony A900 you're out of business. It doesn't take a dummy to know that 24 is more then 21.

laueddy · Nov 17, 2008

I think it is very difficult to put a price tag ourselves easily..! While I have no problem paying the currect asking price for the 5DM2. I wish list is high quality medium format DSLR selling below $10K or even better if they hit 5K =D

The thing is there are those here who make $35K or less a year, and some who make $100K+ a year. Some carry all kind of loans, while others have money to burn..!

Isn't that why there are so many brand new Porsche out there, while many others are driving 10+ years old inexpensive older car.

EL

Okami said:
--
After seeing all these complaints about the camera and price
increases etc etc..

What is actually the most you would pay for this camera? I think the
current 2699$ USD is very fair and though I hope Canon doesn't take
this to heart I would have paid 3k for it (still a chance i might
on ebay if i don't get my preorder early enough).

So how much do you think the 5d Mk II Should be?

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