Nikon New DSLR had Serious Problem in AutoWB

David314 · Oct 5, 2008

there is enough variation in your samples to make me try it for myself - the exposures seem different and you have no exif data in your files

i personally do not see what you see - first white balance on the whibal card pre - second auto white balance

unlike the original OP example - on this one i know what pre was set to and the pre is spot on the AWB is not - but AWB is better at the white in the printout - which i assume is what it went after

i don't see that awb magically desaturated the whibal card gray so that is was white balanced and the white was white balanced

also the AWB is not a simple guess at the Kelvin - from looking at the white balance coefficients in the EXIF data

i personally think this is not an issue

you should be able to download these images along with the original NEF files from this link - i will leave this up for a few days and then it will disappear

http://webf.mypicturetown.com:80/P2PwebCmdController/share.jsp?x=zUIJCtOkA1Hi7%26qiFNOT9a4Tm7hy%256bBsoCsQMqkmU2tVV.fMUfYJyNQ57%2AOZYnQVqnEdTxqYwtU6ZyKYQ1%2Am86M-n33%3DZ9JQLq%260Fn-jWC7KYP

good shooting!

David

Fred Ferkel · Oct 5, 2008

What you did is like proving that there is a shortage of pizzas in Naples or not enough coals in Newcastle or a lack of oil in Saudia Arabia. Maybe this is so but who cares? In practice, your findings are completely irrelevant, my D300 never took pictures with that green stuff. But seriously, no camera does WB perfectly but compared to film, digital really has abolished the problem. Really, just shoot RAW, then WB setting is a complete non-issue for all practical purposes. But I hope you had fun with your research, I had fun reading it and thank you for it.

Pik2004 · Oct 5, 2008

thoppa said:
Hi,

The colour charts all have the gray/green as gray/green, not gray,
but the cushion has somehow gone gray even though it is a very
similar gray/green to the charts.

That's messed up.

Can you explain why auto WB gets the green as green in one shot and
then renders it gray in another ? The cushion shot looks like the
green channel has been de-saturated and red and blue left alone.

It doesn't like a WB problem at all but some sort of colour space issue.

You've got me completely confused. Thanks.

I hope someone can help me understand this !

cheers

--
NikonDeeNinety;TwelveToTwentyFour;SixteenToEightyFiveVR;EighteenToTwoHundredVR;
SeventyToThreeHundredVR;OneOhFiveVRMicro;SBFourHundred;andthatsenoughgearthank
youverymuch,exceptIneedafastprime...and....and....

--
Peter

Art enables us to find ourselves and lose ourselves at the same time. Merton
http://www.pbase.com/pik2004
http://www.flickr.com/photos/18053674@N08/

PrimeUser · Oct 5, 2008

Compared to my D50 and D80 and AWB on the D90 does not work as well, so yes, I think it can be called a problem.

Just like Matrix Metering on the D80, it was not as accurate as my Pentax or D50, so yes, it can be called a problem even though there is a work around.

Fred Ferkel said:
What you did is like proving that there is a shortage of pizzas in
Naples or not enough coals in Newcastle or a lack of oil in Saudia
Arabia. Maybe this is so but who cares? In practice, your findings
are completely irrelevant, my D300 never took pictures with that
green stuff. But seriously, no camera does WB perfectly but compared
to film, digital really has abolished the problem. Really, just shoot
RAW, then WB setting is a complete non-issue for all practical
purposes. But I hope you had fun with your research, I had fun
reading it and thank you for it.
--

--

http://home.comcast.net/~nikon-d80/

shawnpringlephoto · Oct 5, 2008

Use a WB card.

With my D70 i just use either my WB card (one side white one side gray) and go preset or use auto (-2). The -2 setting gives alot better color when using the Auto WB.
--
-Shawn

Nikon D70, Nikon D1, Nikon 50mm 1.8 AF,Nikon 18-70mm AF-S, Nikon 12-24mm f/4 AF-S, Nikon 105mm 2.8, Nikon 70-300mm VR AF-S, Sigma 70-300 Macro, Nikon 28-105mm AF, SB-800 x2
Website is currently down

The most unhelpful forum in the world: http://thehorsecommunity.yuku.com/topic/5747

Lightwaver · Oct 5, 2008

David314 said:
there is enough variation in your samples to make me try it for
myself - the exposures seem different and you have no exif data in
your files

i personally do not see what you see - first white balance on the
whibal card pre - second auto white balance

unlike the original OP example - on this one i know what pre was set
to and the pre is spot on the AWB is not - but AWB is better at the
white in the printout - which i assume is what it went after

i don't see that awb magically desaturated the whibal card gray so
that is was white balanced and the white was white balanced

also the AWB is not a simple guess at the Kelvin - from looking at
the white balance coefficients in the EXIF data

i personally think this is not an issue

you should be able to download these images along with the original
NEF files from this link - i will leave this up for a few days and
then it will disappear

http://webf.mypicturetown.com:80/P2PwebCmdController/share.jsp?x=zUIJCtOkA1Hi7%26qiFNOT9a4Tm7hy%256bBsoCsQMqkmU2tVV.fMUfYJyNQ57%2AOZYnQVqnEdTxqYwtU6ZyKYQ1%2Am86M-n33%3DZ9JQLq%260Fn-jWC7KYP

good shooting!

David

Thanks for your good samples.

I'm not talking about good autoWB. but wrong WB system.

actually, there is no Exact WB, White should be white? It's so freak.

I'm just show you Nikon's Wrong WB algorism.

New Nikon WB system makes color cast to gray, to be thought exact WB.

I'll show for you.

First. your samply Preset.

Cyan color means 2% saturation. and Red color is pure gray scale.
it means R=G=B Yes. you take preset with GrayCard. it is very normal.

how about this? your sample with AutoWB

Red color spread all around . and cyan color are more than presetWB.

Don't you believe it? just check it out.

Lightwaver · Oct 5, 2008

mbareetbc said:
This reminds me of a thread posted previously 'D90 is not perfect,
stop the hype'

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&thread=29477888&page=1

One of the images in Peter Gabriel's D90 galleries caught my eye as
awkward.

Well I don't agree totally about him.

it's not related so much. actually, when using AutoWB, some colors are more saturated. but it does not matter to me.

I'm not talking about good wb. but Wrong WB system.

white can't be pure white or Pure Gray (R=G=B) like B/W Photos.

because there are a lot of colors around it.

but Nikon's new WB System makes them Pure GrayScale. to be thought good WB.

Lightwaver · Oct 6, 2008

I'm not fighting with you and Nikon.

and I don't want to be a troll.

but you should have to know what is wrong and right.

In Nikon's New AutoWB system, there is a problem . it's not right.

I 'm not talking about nikons DSLR AutoWB isn't good.

But Nikon's new DSLR D90/D300/D700/D3 have serious problem. that is true.

It makes some colors to pure gray to be thought good wb.

even f you havn't recognized yet. there is error.

You should have to know.

To avoid that problem, just use WB card. or take Raw and convert using LR2 with camera profiles. that is all.

Watch out what is normal?

Converted it using LR2 with camera profile , no other control

and You can't say that is normal.

And Now. I contacted to nikon and now in progress.

If it will be fixed. I would tell you all. Thanks.

Punctu · Oct 6, 2008

I don't understand, why do you guys still shoot jpg?

--
Pushed the button and the world stood still.

DikkieDick · Oct 6, 2008

shawnpringlephoto said:
Use a WB card.
With my D70 i just use either my WB card (one side white one side
gray) and go preset or use auto (-2). The -2 setting gives alot
better color when using the Auto WB.

On my D70 I'm using this setting from almost the beginning and it gives the best results IMHO. The few times I tried the presets the results were way off.
--
Greetings, ****
http://www.dickpluim.com

ZorSy · Oct 6, 2008

Don't have either D90 or D300 - D80 users may have experience similar effect when using Auto WB and Auto Saturation. The last one is something I switched off week after the purchase as it use to desaturate images on its own, cooling otherwise vibrant colours to the point of skins tones ending up with no red channel. But along with MM on D80 which pushed me into raw, I just forgot about it until mentioned here. Interesting.

cheers

David314 · Oct 6, 2008

Lightwaver said:
Red color spread all around . and cyan color are more than presetWB.

Don't you believe it? just check it out.

i did

you aren't understanding what is going on

the awb is white balancing a different area - it probabaly goes for max white area

it doesn't desaturate as you claim

if it did desaturate - it would show better in the whibal card AND the other areas

it DOES NOT

in your graphic you have moved the red to another point

you could get the same results with pre if you set the white balance on the wall

again, this is not Nikon 'cheating' and desaturating - it is about how AWB picks the gray point

good shooting!

David

jrahadi · Oct 6, 2008

me too

rgupta · Nov 9, 2008

Nikon D50 was my first DSLR and i always used Auto WB without any problem. but with D90 i can not rely on Auto WB specially indoors. but if i take shots in RAW and Auto WB in NX2 it works perfect. i'm also not happy with the Camera's Auto WB. Hope it get fixed via firmware.

Here is the sample.

--
Nikon D90
Nikon D50
18-105VR, 18-135mm, 18-55mm, 50mm 1.8D
55-200mm VR
SB-400
8GB Extreme III

Knoal · Nov 9, 2008

Bravo!

You gotta love a true Techie that fill find problems like this with methods like that!

Good Work!
--
Knoal

D80
50mm 1.8
105mm 2.8
18-105mm VR 3.5-5.6
70-300mm 4-5.6

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29684390@N02/

urbivore · Nov 9, 2008

There ain't no such thing as auto-WB.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bkmd/

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Nikon New DSLR had Serious Problem in AutoWB

David314

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Pik2004

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PrimeUser

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shawnpringlephoto

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Lightwaver

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