I'll say it. DPreview needs to pull and redo the 50D review

"they have the 35mm equivalent full frame path".

I agree ....but how many of Joe Public (now the major market for dslr sales) are prepared to purchase the expensive (and physically large) lenses that are the olny ones that will produce images with edge-to-edge sharpness on a FF sensor? And even if these lenses became cheap ... how many of Joe Public would want to lug around such massive lenses on their trips abroad? The answer is ..... none.

jrynash said:

I've had 40D for 13 months and 50D for 1 month. I've compared both,
carefully. When combining features, performance and IQ, my 50D is a
better camera than my 40D.

Click to expand...

It seems guys who has used the 50D can show pros.
Every other one can´t show anything....

Funny, isn´t it?
Erik J

--
A picture a day, keep ageing away.

A good review at digital camera info .com:

http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/ ... ...S-50D-Digital-Camera-Review-19359.htm

I haven't a 50D yet, it will be in store soon. It's just my personal summary of the findings on the web:

• with a good lens it's capable of hight resolution of details, pictures looks sharper than with the 40D (depending on print-size/ monitor resolution!), you have more room to crop if needed. Vignetting compensation and other nice-to have features came as bonus.

• this advantages are at a price of some drawbacks: less DR (less details in dark area), sub average color accuracy (40D and 450 seems better).

Neutral (so perhaps little disappointing): At higher ISO and same picture size there seems no significant noise advantage to the 40D.

The 50D isn't the perfect camera improving in all area compared to the 40D and 450D, in some points it's fall behind this two excellent cameras. The main advantage is maximal resolution with good lenses - but at some price in other IQ-category and in $. Colors can be corrected in PP, DR will left as issue.

40D was a much greater step forward with improvement in all category over its predecessors, the 400D and a tight competitor to other brands. The 50D is not that outstanding camera that was expected from canon.

---------------

http://www.svenrose.smugmug.com

Richard said:

Calling me names will not change the fact that DPReview had done a
good job with the review and that the 50d is only a mild warm over of
the 40d. But it does make you look like a fan boy.

Click to expand...

LOL, I've been called a "fanboy" by one of the best (Natureman) and I wear it proudly as a badge of honor.

But you still look like a troll.

Richard said:

Richard said:

Jovo wrote:
LOL! I trust you have actually used a 50D?

Click to expand...

Would it really matter? DPreivew did use the camera, they acutally
used tests and used scientific methods to do it to make fair
comparisons and people here state the test needs to be redone because
the camera does not look good enough and DPReview needs to make it
look better.

While people here have drawn their own conclusions looking at all the
information on the web so far that since the 50d did not perform
superior to the previous model even though they seen the results for
themselves, how could anything I say make a difference.

I viewed the results and my opinion is that DPReview was not hard
enough in their opinions of the 50d. To me it is a tiny warm over of
a great camera at the time, the 40d. I am not debating the validity
of the test, I am questioning the comments. I think there is
hesitation on DPReveiw to tell it like it is, which is this is a mild
warm over with a slight increase in performance and a lame attempt to
lure people into upgrading using the megapix race. That is not what a
person wanting to upgrade from a 40d. So they complain about the test
instead of complaining that Canon did not do their homework and
produced an upgrade too soon with too little upgrade. Now that is my
opinion and you can disagree.

The fact is DPReview does good tests. If they make factual mistakes,
they will correct them. Sometimes they make slight changes to their
opinions when warranted. Another fact is the 50d is a warm over, no
earthshattering changes in body or performance. People who expected
that are disappointed whether warranted or not but instead of
compalining Canon did not do the right thing, they shoot the
messenger.. DPReview.

What really matters is if the person purchasing the camera can get
good images from it and I say it is possible to do that, to get
better images than the 40d but does not change the fact it is just a
warm over camera. People that are objective will see it is only a
warm over and will wait until Canon produces the next APC camera with
true inovation and make the decision to upgrade if it makes sense to
them.

Click to expand...

I agree with you in many points!

Canon did a disappointing job with the 50D - as it did with the 40D: they should have integrate the better LCD in the 40D and at least the video capability in the 50D + the professional AF-System + better weather sealing. And what about the 5D mkII? It would still be positioned as full-frame but because of the little difference to the 50D they should have drop the price of the 5DmkII to perhaps 2000$. Than Canon would really be a serious concurrence and will not give the impression, they are more interested in making money with a silly upgrade-policy than in building the best camera possible for the moment.

If canon continue the way they are going now, they will loose more and more people to other brands!

--------------------
http://www.svenrose.smugmug.com

I think there are two topics here. First the value for money route that most people buying an SLR will go for, and the path for people seeking the most technically advanced/most capable system.

If you go for the 1st category, then you either have APS or 4/3 type cameras to go for. Now we could argue this for hours and get nowhere, but to be honest at the entry level the 4/3 cameras are loosing out on performance and cost.

So for Joe blogs out there, the Sony A200 and kit lens or the Canon 1000 with its IS lens kit is not only the lower cost option, it is the better performing one. The 520 needs to sell for the price of the 420 to compete. And its not like the olympus cameras are significantly smaller either. The G1 might be the solution but its micro 4/3 yet another standard.

At the other end you have people who want to go on and get more out of the system. There is no way the 4/3 cameras can live with the resolution capability of the 35mm equivalent camera, or the high ISO capability.

At least with an APS sensor camera you can gently upgrade your lenses to the better ones and be able to take them forward to a full frame camera if you want.

If the 4/3 users wants that then they are faced with selling all their lenses and buying into Canon, Nikon or Sony.

So for cost concious buyers avoid 4/3, for those that wish to grow onwards avoid 4/3. I hope m4/3 saves it, but at the moment 4/3 looks lost at the moment.

Its only a 22% increase in resolvable size. And even then you do not gain 22% more detail. So at best you gain 10% extra crop room, not a lot. Having looked at quite a few images from both, I have to say there is not a lot in it. The lower dynamic range of the 50D sensor is clipping the black more in many of the images I see, so that makes text look sharper. Also it looks like the processing is detecting high contrast and doing a bit of sharpening. Now look for an area of the image where texture is, and you see the 50D smearing detail more.

To me the 40D and 50D are not looking that different in terms of total detail captured, and I can see the extra shadow noise and the lower dynamic range, so I do not think the 50D is a step forwards.

At this moment I have to say for my photography the 10mp resolution is fine, I can make good A3 prints, what would help more is greater dynamic range and lower high ISO noise. Sadly the 50D compromises on both of these items.

So I see the areas I would like improved made worse, and the resolution only slightly improved. If only Canon had either stuck at 10 or 12mp and put in the new micro lenses or features, or stuck the existing 5D sensor into the 40D/50D body and functionality.

sven rose said:

I agree with you in many points!

Canon did a disappointing job with the 50D - as it did with the 40D:
they should have integrate the better LCD in the 40D and at least the
video capability in the 50D + the professional AF-System + better
weather sealing. And what about the 5D mkII? It would still be
positioned as full-frame but because of the little difference to the
50D they should have drop the price of the 5DmkII to perhaps 2000$.
Than Canon would really be a serious concurrence and will not give
the impression, they are more interested in making money with a silly
upgrade-policy than in building the best camera possible for the
moment.

If canon continue the way they are going now, they will loose more
and more people to other brands!

Click to expand...

People will argue with you on this one and call you a troll as I have been called. But I agree, not that Canon has to do all the things above. But Nikon is doing these things and has IQ equal or better than Canon depending on model comparison. So now the IQ is near level, Nikon ups the competition by producing better hardware and features. Canon must respond if they want to keep their dominance. Maybe they don't and are happy just to keep putting out model after model with minor upgrades and not addressing the inovation by the competition.

Jerry-astro said:

There are plenty of people here who like to say controversial things
-- it was your posting I was commenting on. You whine about name
calling, yet it seems to be a common thread in almost all of your
posts.

Click to expand...

I disagree, calling someone a fanboy means that someone glosses over facts, tests, examples, observations to say that their purchase (camera brand) is better than the competition, when everyone knows that both have advantages and disadvantages. Calling someone a **** is a personal attack. I do not own this camera, you are correct. But I don't have to, that is why we have reviews to HELP people decide on which camera to get. I don't need to own both cameras to look at raw images and see which has more or less noise or resolution. I don't need to own both cameras to see the bodies are identical with no upgrades.

I have never said the 50d was a bad camera. I said it is a good camera for many but it is not a huge improvement over the previous model. You don't have to own both cameras to see that. if you disagree fine.

What I have commented on is there are a few here that try to poison people against DPR and the tests when anyone with half a brain can see the test are pretty accurate and are not purposefully biased. When you read the commentary, there will always be bias.

I shoot both systems. I am biased toward Nikon, to me it is more intuitive. That is completely subjective and is due to my experience and not to purposefull bias.

More than anything, I want a new 5d2 for my first FF camera. But if Canon did to it the same tiny upgrade as far as IQ, when DPR releases a full fledged review of that camera and it does not hold up. I will be getting the Nikon. That is because I am not a fanboy of either and take into consideration all the facts and my personal experience when I walk into a store. But to look at the noise in the images and state that DPR is flawed is stupid to me. So to make sure the assumption is false, I look at tests on other sites, they show the same thing.

I am not a pro, I do not have the time to test every camera I am going to purchase. I have only a modest colletion of lenses and want to get the best out of them. DPR has helped me with the purchase of all my stuff and I get tired of fanboys trying to poison newbies here against DPR, when there reviews are some of the best and most informative. Most of all, they give you a base line which uses the same raw converter, the same studio setups. And while the commentary may sometimes have a little bais because of the testers background and experience, I do feel they try to point out the good and the bad.

rjjr said:

Richard said:

Calling me names will not change the fact that DPReview had done a
good job with the review and that the 50d is only a mild warm over of
the 40d. But it does make you look like a fan boy.

Click to expand...

LOL, I've been called a "fanboy" by one of the best (Natureman) and I
wear it proudly as a badge of honor.

But you still look like a troll.

Click to expand...

Fanboy is not a personal attack but you calling me a **** is. Fanboy, is a tern that someone is so loyal to a brand, they cannot see that that brand is not perfect and that other brands can surpass that brand in features or quality. Me shooting both brands allows me to see things clearly because I have no purposefull bais to one or the other. I see advantages and disadvantages. I can see clearly when Canon warms over the 40d with the 50d, I can also see clearly when Nikon warms over the d80 for the d90. To me it is just decisions each company makes.

But for you and many like you, you shoot the messenger (DPR) when Canon does not live up to your expectations. And although I do not have a 50d, I can say I will not own one because it does not surpass the 40d enough to justify the cost.

If you think I am a troll, fine, but I am not trying to start a fight or flame anyone, I am only pointing out that the fanboys on this site are trying to poison newbies and anyone they can against DPR, which I find to be fair and to be accurate. I also find their findings inline with other testers on the web. When presented with these observations, a fanboy cannot handle it and tries to shoot the messenger.

I think the number of cameras that I have owned an lenses give me a unique perspective to make this judgement and to point out the emotional rantings of fanboys.

Richard said:

rjjr said:

Richard said:

Calling me names will not change the fact that DPReview had done a
good job with the review and that the 50d is only a mild warm over of
the 40d. But it does make you look like a fan boy.

Click to expand...

LOL, I've been called a "fanboy" by one of the best (Natureman) and I
wear it proudly as a badge of honor.

But you still look like a troll.

Click to expand...

Fanboy is not a personal attack but you calling me a **** is.

Click to expand...

"****" is a very common nick name for "Richard" I've used it myself for decades. Get over yourself.

rjjr said:

rjjr said:

Fanboy is not a personal attack but you calling me a **** is.

Click to expand...

"****" is a very common nick name for "Richard" I've used it myself
for decades.

Click to expand...

Yeah. Right.

Why can't you children just play nicely in the sandbox here?

--
Regards,
Roger

Richard said:

I think the number of cameras that I have owned an lenses give me a
unique perspective to make this judgement and to point out the
emotional rantings of fanboys.

Click to expand...

LOL, ownership of a bunch of gear doesn't qualify anyone to make juegements about.

But now that you mention it, I wonder how many cameras Ansel Adams or HCB owned? Have you ever lived inside a Robertson 500 for 8 hours a day 5 days a week? I have. And I didn't even own it.

fotography said:

I don't know if it's because Phil has delegated reviews to surrogates
and they are not as careful or if it's something else. But the fact
that DPreview first used a pre-release version of Adobe Camera Raw
software and then claims to have "corrected" their review with a
released version of that software, is a major indictment on the
validity of their 50D review. There have been warning signs on the
DPreview forums since the 50D release that there are potential
problems with Adobe's software's ability to effective process 50D RAW
files and yet DPreview forged ahead anyway with a pre-release version.

DPreview says they've "corrected" their 50D review. Did DPreview
alter a single conclusion or judgment based on their supposed
corrections?

They also used a 50mm 1.4 lens. Is this lens capable of
out-resolving the 50D 15mp sensor? Perhaps it is. Why did DPreview
use the 85mm 1.8 lens in their 1Ds Mark III review instead of the
50mm 1.4?

The only prudent and correct thing for DPreview do to is pull their
review and redo, testing the validity of the claims of problems with
Adobe software and the 50D RAW files as they go.

Click to expand...

--
--
Richard, NC
Never comment on something you don't know about

Sorry, in my las post: "ownership of a bunch of gear doesn't qualify anyone to make juegements about."

should read: "ownership of a bunch of gear doesn't qualify anyone to make judgements about anything."

Believe what you want but the first time I was called "****" (short for Richard) was by one of grammar school grade teachers, Sister Ann.

rjjr said:

Richard said:

Calling me names will not change the fact that DPReview had done a
good job with the review and that the 50d is only a mild warm over of
the 40d. But it does make you look like a fan boy.

Click to expand...

LOL, I've been called a "fanboy" by one of the best (Natureman) and I
wear it proudly as a badge of honor.

But you still look like a troll.

Click to expand...

Well, **** (rjjr), if it spews garbage like a fanboy and defends and promotes a camera company no matter what, like a fanboy, it's a fanboy.

A fanboy badge is nothing to be proud of, and neither is calling people trolls or other names simply because they aren't a puppet for a camera company like you are.

natureman said:

Well, **** (rjjr), if it spews garbage like a fanboy and defends and
promotes a camera company no matter what, like a fanboy, it's a
fanboy.

Click to expand...

ROTFLMAO

I knew you couldn't resist, predictable troll that you are. Thanks for proving to me how much of a troll you are, yet again.

natureman said:

A fanboy badge is nothing to be proud of, and neither is calling
people trolls or other names simply because they aren't a puppet for
a camera company like you are.

Click to expand...

Sure it is, being called a fanbly by one of the most notorious trolls here (who here hasn't been called a fanboy by A Mean Runt) is something to be proud of, whether you're actually a fanboy or not. I've actually never defended any company about anything and I have no brand loyalty.

It just goes to show how deprived of reality you and your ilk really are.

natureman said:

Well, **** (rjjr), if it spews garbage like a fanboy and defends and
promotes a camera company no matter what, like a fanboy, it's a
fanboy.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and if it spews garbage using the word fanboy over and over no matter what, then it's A Mean Runt, aka Natureman.

natureman said:

A fanboy badge is nothing to be proud of, and neither is calling
people trolls or other names simply because they aren't a puppet for
a camera company like you are.

Click to expand...

Troll

Nick names are often used by friends as an endearing name. You did not say it that way, you used it as a personal attack, anyone could see that. I don't need a 50d, a bunch of gear or Ansel Adams to figure that out. But it does not matter, I may be a **** or not but you don't know me so you don't know. But I do know a person who defends a manufacturer without regards to logic and reason is a fanboy, and again, I don't have to have a 50d to figure that out.

rjjr said:

Richard said:

rjjr said:

Richard said:

Calling me names will not change the fact that DPReview had done a
good job with the review and that the 50d is only a mild warm over of
the 40d. But it does make you look like a fan boy.

Click to expand...

LOL, I've been called a "fanboy" by one of the best (Natureman) and I
wear it proudly as a badge of honor.

But you still look like a troll.

Click to expand...

Fanboy is not a personal attack but you calling me a **** is.

Click to expand...

"****" is a very common nick name for "Richard" I've used it myself
for decades. Get over yourself.
--

Click to expand...