L-bracket for A900

I contacted Really Right Stuff about whether they would be producing an L-bracket for the a900 and received the following reply:

We have not decided yet. It will depend on demand. Keep those emails coming, it is your only chance.

Please let me know if there is anything else that I can help you with.
Thank you,
Casey
Email
[email protected]
[email protected]

So, if you are interested in an L bracket for your a900 please email them.

Gene

I tried out my A700's L-bracket on the A900 but it is not a perfect fit. The A900 has slightly rounded sides, unlike the A700, and thus is not as snug a fit. But it seems to be "doing the job" for now. I will of course be getting a dedicated L-bracket for the A900, as soon as they come out with it.

I too will write to them about this.

geneherz said:

I contacted Really Right Stuff about whether they would be producing
an L-bracket for the a900 and received the following reply:

We have not decided yet. It will depend on demand. Keep those emails
coming, it is your only chance.

Please let me know if there is anything else that I can help you with.
Thank you,
Casey
Email
[email protected]
[email protected]

So, if you are interested in an L bracket for your a900 please email
them.

Gene

Click to expand...

Hi Gene,

It won't be EMAILS alone that will make them change their minds... I started a "campaign" January/February earlier this year to ask them to make an L-Bracket for the A700 w/ GRIP to supplement their existing A700 BODY only grip. No dice, and wouldn't budge. The only way they would even consider this was if I could get a pre-order of at least 30 or more users interested in pre-paying for a new bracket.

I petitioned this forum and Dyxum and I think I got about four users that were interested in pre-paying and by March/April I gave up due to LACK LUSTER interest for an L-Bracket... sigh

When I called ReallyRightStuff they basically were very SYMPATHETIC and understood my enthusiasm for the bracket but couldn't/wouldn't budge from their position. The guy I was working with for the past 2~3 months clued me in on the D300, D3, 40D and 5D orders for L-Brackets something along the lines of BACKORDERED by a minimum for 113 orders (40D???) the rest of the L-BRACKETS were back ordered by around 200 or more.

Here I was asking them to order just FIVE L-Brackets for the A700...

Hopefully this "perception" will change with the A900, I really HOPE so...

geneherz said:

I contacted Really Right Stuff about whether they would be producing
an L-bracket for the a900 and received the following reply:

We have not decided yet. It will depend on demand. Keep those emails
coming, it is your only chance.

Please let me know if there is anything else that I can help you with.
Thank you,
Casey
Email
[email protected]
[email protected]

So, if you are interested in an L bracket for your a900 please email
them.

Gene

Click to expand...

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69

lonewolf69 said:

Hi Gene,

It won't be EMAILS alone that will make them change their minds...
I started a "campaign" January/February earlier this year to ask
them to make an L-Bracket for the A700 w/ GRIP to supplement their
existing A700 BODY only grip. No dice, and wouldn't budge. The only
way they would even consider this was if I could get a pre-order of
at least 30 or more users interested in pre-paying for a new bracket.

I petitioned this forum and Dyxum and I think I got about four users
that were interested in pre-paying and by March/April I gave up due
to LACK LUSTER interest for an L-Bracket... sigh

When I called ReallyRightStuff they basically were very SYMPATHETIC
and understood my enthusiasm for the bracket but couldn't/wouldn't
budge from their position. The guy I was working with for the past
2~3 months clued me in on the D300, D3, 40D and 5D orders for
L-Brackets something along the lines of BACKORDERED by a minimum for
113 orders (40D???) the rest of the L-BRACKETS were back ordered by
around 200 or more.

Here I was asking them to order just FIVE L-Brackets for the A700...

Hopefully this "perception" will change with the A900, I really HOPE
so...

Click to expand...

I think your experience is an unfortunate reflection of the nature of most current Sony shooters, who as a group are not the sort who even know what an L bracket is, let alone understand the benefits of using one. Heck, most probably don't even have a tripod with a head that uses the AS (Arca Swiss style) quick release system to take advantage of an L bracket. While on a recent trip shooting in Yellowstone NP I continually cursed myself for not having bought an L bracket (I've been using a long lens bracket that actually works fine horizontally (though probably looks fairly strange in use), but presents the typical problems when you want to shoot vertically.

There are thousands and thousands of more experienced Canon and Nikon nature and studio shooters who own AS-style ball heads and who know and appreciate the benefits an L bracket provides. That's why those items are back-ordered. There are far fewer A700 owners to begin with, and even fewer who would even know what an L bracket is, let alone be willing to spring for one (most people probably have tripods that cost less than an L bracket). Perhaps I'm over-generalizing, or overstating matters a bit, but I don't think so.

Now that you have reminded me of my recent experiences in Yellowstone, I'm likely to be contacting RRS in the near future to place an order.

As for the A900, purchasers of that camera are more likely to know about and appreciate and even buy an L bracket, but it will take some time for there to be enough such buyers to create the needed demand that RRS will require to create the bracket (or Kirk, another manufacturer of brackets for AS-style heads).

--
Mark Van Bergh

Well, I think you found out first hand how the option you are looking for is an odd one. As L bracket with Vertical grip is in many ways working in different directions of logic.

If you have the vertical grip on the camera, it tends to imply you are using it hand held, thus no need for the L bracket. Where L bracket use is for tripod shooters who are less likely to have the grip on. So the lack of demand is understandable. It's no different than Putting GPS in a vertical grip, it's a horrible idea since the folks who want GPS the most are the people who are least likely to want a vertical grip (GPS users are out and about and going small and light, Grip users are inside or in locations where GPS info is worthless to them).

But as the other poster mentioned in the end, you are running up against the simple issue that AS stuff and L brackets just haven't caught on with other mounts the same as with Nikon and Canon. They make brackets for them without thinking since they know there is a huge base they buy them no question, in fact people will wait for the bracket to come before buying the camera (I'm such a person).

Educating the user base on the usefulness of such things is really the only way to shift things.

It's this problem that is why a few years back at PMA I told sony about L brackets and their need, and thought in the camera design. If RSS won't make them, it will be darn hard for Sony to make any headroom in the pro market, and if Sony were to offer AS L brackets, it would get the user base more familiar with them and RSS would begin to make them for Sony stuff more since the demand would grow and people would most likely buy an RSS bracket over a Sony.

At the minimum right now we just need to get them to make L brackets for the non-grip config. You can notice they haven't made one for the new entry level bodies either, which is odd since there is 3 bodies that all use the same bracket. You would think they would have got demand for them, but so far nothing.

Ask Kirk Enterprises - [email protected],[email protected]

It appears they have only made the L-bracket for the A100. Hopefully they have plans to offer more models in the future.

I have used their KM 7D camera plate with their Universal (Big L) bracket.
http://www.kirkphoto.com/lbracketso.html

Your below statements are on the mark. Most Alpha users are completely unaware of what an L-bracket is, let alone the differences between the various ballheads and why the AS type heads are the industry standard.

On the other hand, the Canon/Nikon users are heavily into such professional gear and when a higher-end camera body come out from these companies, it is no surprise that companies like RRS are unable to keep up with the demand for L-plates. Just the lay of the land, which might very well change with the A900.

Mark VB said:

There are thousands and thousands of more experienced Canon and Nikon
nature and studio shooters who own AS-style ball heads and who know
and appreciate the benefits an L bracket provides. That's why those
items are back-ordered. There are far fewer A700 owners to begin
with, and even fewer who would even know what an L bracket is, let
alone be willing to spring for one (most people probably have tripods
that cost less than an L bracket). Perhaps I'm over-generalizing, or
overstating matters a bit, but I don't think so.

Click to expand...

The RRS person told me that they planned on producing an L-bracket for the A900 in about 6-8 weeks, but that time frame was not guaranteed.

Kirk said that they had absolutely no plans for anything for the A900, just as they didn't for the A700. They got burned on L-plates for the A100 and have just decided that the market isn't there for them for Sony stuff. Of course, it was foolish on their part to expect a market for A100 L-plates and to then extrapolate from their poor experience to a perceived lack of market for the other bodies.

I called them up too, and they basically said that it was due to the LACKLUSTER A100 that they hesistated doing anything for the A700 let alone one for the A700 w/ Grip. ReallyRightStuff has been MORE supportive of the A700 than Kirk which essentially said that if ReallyRightStuff supported the A700 they would follow suit. I promptly showed them the A700 version from RRS and the REP just paused for a few seconds and said they would call me back and politely hung up the phone.

...

I've been waiting for a CALLBACK since March 2008... SIGH

halfpint3069 said:

Ask Kirk Enterprises - [email protected],[email protected]
It appears they have only made the L-bracket for the A100. Hopefully
they have plans to offer more models in the future.

I have used their KM 7D camera plate with their Universal (Big L)
bracket.
http://www.kirkphoto.com/lbracketso.html

Click to expand...

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69

PhotoTraveler said:

Well, I think you found out first hand how the option you are looking
for is an odd one. As L bracket with Vertical grip is in many ways
working in different directions of logic.

Click to expand...

Agreed to a certain extent, YET, the pre-orders for the NIKON and CANON shooters that I mentioned in the 1st post, are for the respective dSLR bodies WITH V-GRIPS. If you'll take a moment or so and VIEW their catalog all of the advanced amatuer and pro-models for CANON and NIKON have grips for dSLR bodies (SOLO) or dSLR bodies (w/ V-GRIP). So while it may be "counter-intuitive" to have the L-Bracket with GRIP, it makes sense in the fact that you don't have to REMOVE the grip when using the L-BRACKET. A700 users are "penalized" and must REMOVE the V-GRIP first, re-install the batter cover, re-insert the battery, MOUNT the L-BRACKET onto the body, and then FINALLY attach it to the ARCA PLATE.... and of course the reverse is needed when you want or need to use the V-GRIP again... (Heaven FORBID if you have a SHOULDER/WRIST strap attached to the eyelet of both the VGRIP and the BODY of the camera!!! Which is EXACTLY my situation! Have you had the "pleasure" of taking on/off that wrist strap from SONY/MINOLTA??!?!)

As you can see, it's not an easy/elegant solution...

The CANON and NIKON users have a CHOICE of both versions of the L-Bracket (with and without the VGRIP) and as SONY users, we should have it also, but SADLY the DEMAND doesn't reflect the time & money warranted by RRS to R&D another bracket for the A700, their words NOT mine...

PhotoTraveler said:

If you have the vertical grip on the camera, it tends to imply you
are using it hand held, thus no need for the L bracket. Where L
bracket use is for tripod shooters who are less likely to have the
grip on. So the lack of demand is understandable. It's no different
than Putting GPS in a vertical grip, it's a horrible idea since the
folks who want GPS the most are the people who are least likely to
want a vertical grip (GPS users are out and about and going small and
light, Grip users are inside or in locations where GPS info is
worthless to them).

Click to expand...

1. If it's worthless, whiy is it offered for the NIKON and CANON users?
2. If it's useless, whiy are USERS pre-ordering them in LARGE quantities?

3. IMHO - I find it to be worth it's price in gold just to save on the convenience of NOT having to CHANGE/RECONFIGURE my camera every time...

4. Obviously, you don't agree. But that's great, and that's why there should be a choice of TWO grips, one for you and one for me with my grip...

PhotoTraveler said:

But as the other poster mentioned in the end, you are running up
against the simple issue that AS stuff and L brackets just haven't
caught on with other mounts the same as with Nikon and Canon. They
make brackets for them without thinking since they know there is a
huge base they buy them no question, in fact people will wait for the
bracket to come before buying the camera (I'm such a person).

Click to expand...

PhotoTraveler said:

Educating the user base on the usefulness of such things is really
the only way to shift things.

It's this problem that is why a few years back at PMA I told sony
about L brackets and their need, and thought in the camera design.
If RSS won't make them, it will be darn hard for Sony to make any
headroom in the pro market, and if Sony were to offer AS L brackets,
it would get the user base more familiar with them and RSS would
begin to make them for Sony stuff more since the demand would grow
and people would most likely buy an RSS bracket over a Sony.

At the minimum right now we just need to get them to make L brackets
for the non-grip config. You can notice they haven't made one for
the new entry level bodies either, which is odd since there is 3
bodies that all use the same bracket. You would think they would
have got demand for them, but so far nothing.

Click to expand...

Not ODD at all, they realize NOW that the ENTRY level cameras are NOT the type of clients who would be investing in an L-Bracket so they wisely CHOSE NOT to make the same mistake again (A100) by R&D on Entry level NON Nikon/Canon bodies... A100 is available until CURRENT supply is EXHAUSTED and then it will be discontinued, it's already discounted because of the LACK of interest. Again, NOT my words, just repeating what was told to me by RSS...

Photo, I sincerely thank you for your viewpoints and you have some great points, but I honestly have a real NEED for an L-Bracket with Grip support for ALL of the reasons mentioned above, it's great that you don't have this need, but please don't trivialize mine.

Thank you!

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69

I also emilaed yesterday and got exactly the same response - we have not decided yet. After investing in their "right stuff" it's quite a disappointing answer.
They don't even offer a "fit all" plate.

I simply don't know how I will do without L-Plate and PCL clamp which is useless without LPlate. I am used to it and I love it.

I tried to attach A700 Lplate to my A900 - well, it is better than nothing but not as good as it shoud be.

Robert Lynch said:

The RRS person told me that they planned on producing an L-bracket
for the A900 in about 6-8 weeks, but that time frame was not
guaranteed.

Click to expand...

I'm glad to hear that RRS plans to make one for the A900.

Gene

The first thing that I bought for my A700 was an L bracket. Having used one for some time with Nikon cameras I can't imagine going without. I think that Sony should pay RRS to develop A700 with grip and A900 L brackets, it would be one less reason for other brand camera owners not to switch.
--
eric burrows

ClipsoCalipso said:

I also emilaed yesterday and got exactly the same response - we have
not decided yet. After investing in their "right stuff" it's quite a
disappointing answer.
They don't even offer a "fit all" plate.
I simply don't know how I will do without L-Plate and PCL clamp which
is useless without LPlate. I am used to it and I love it.
I tried to attach A700 Lplate to my A900 - well, it is better than
nothing but not as good as it shoud be.

Click to expand...

There are several manufacturers of AS-style plates (e.g., RRS, Kirk, Wimberly). Kirk used to have some "universal" type plates that could be used with different types of equipment without being specifically designed for any (I have one that I used to use with my Maxxum 9 and 9xi before that). Even if a manufacturer does not have what it calls a generic, "fit all" plate, there likely is a plate that can be used for your intended purpose, you just need to know the dimensions of the plate and the equipment it will be used on to figure out which plate will work "best").

As I noted previously, I currently use a long lens plate that I originally used on my 600/4 (until I replaced it with a newer plate compatible with a flash bracket system) for my A700. The plate has two screws in sliding slots. One is used to attach the bracket to the camera, the other is slid up against the side of the camera to act as an "anti-twist" mechanism. The plate has to be slightly off-centered so as not to have the second screw interfere with the CF slot cover, but that doesn't really matter in use once the camera is tripod mounted. It is not a substitute for an L plate, but did not require an additional purchase as I already had it sitting in a closet getting no use.

I have no doubt that any of these companies sell a plate that likely can be used on your (anyone's) camera body, though they will not be a substitute for a custom designed L plate, and may not be the "cleanest" solution, but it is a solution.

--
Mark Van Bergh

........ from an old Minolta CG1000 L-bracket, readily available on e-Bay, pawn or used camera shops. Pictured here is the wireless application setup that works primarily indoors and not out of doors. I now use an OC-cable exclusively for 100% flash fire reliability.



--
http://stv.smugmug.com/

eric burrows said:

I think that Sony should pay RRS to develop A700 with grip
and A900 L brackets

Click to expand...

That is the funniest thing i have heard. I thought RRS was a business, an entrepreneur, who should see the opportunity. Adjust the price to volume. I think they have an attitude problem.

N

chicken/egg problem.

The fact they are a business is why RSS has a hard time justifying making these brackets for non Nikon or Sony stuff.

Brackets have a very short shelf life, often less than 18months now, and that's at the extreme end. In reality the marketable life of a bracket is probably well less than 12 months, by that time those who were going to buy that model and that bracket have done so. Then they get stuck with the left over brackets. This means you can't just make a big lot of them and try to sell them cheap, won't work. They make them as they go in small batches, from the sounds of things, around 30-50 a batch.

The price they sell them for is pretty darn reasonable. I've made a good number of billet parts in that ballpark of complexity and volume. For them to sell them at 140 bucks, and have them made by an outside shop, in those volumes is pretty good. They certainly would work to keep their NRE to where they can recover on the first 30 brackets. Now the owners are the one doing the work there, but still figure his time is 50 bucks an hour, he could probably spend easily 2 days on a bracket, from eyeing the job up, making a model, getting a drawing made up, min 2 days. That's 800 bucks, not counting their efforts in getting a hold of the machine shop and pricing out stuff. 30x140=4200 so 1/5th the money from that first batch is gone. Plus remember just general overhead and staff (they look to have 5 people). The machine shop cost to them with anodizing is probably 80 bucks minimum. So that's 2400. So now they have burned up 3200 dollars. 1K left. And one could still work out many other parts of it. So in the end, if they only sell 1 batch, they are just going to break even. And they probably base the second batch on how the first did. If sales drop off quick into the second batch, thats a big burn.

A lower price would not drive sales much, what they charge is pretty reasonable as is. If anything I would expect them to raise the price on off brands. I'm sure if you offered them enough money they would make you a one off. I bet many of the brackets they have for medium format and other wackier stuff is from exactly that. A person who had the money for that kind of gear, and wanted one and told them they would pay them 1500 for the bracket and let them make more and sell them for a much lower price.

The reason for Sony paying them is simple. Sony needs L brackets for all their cameras. Nikon and Canon get this automatically. Sony does not. For sony, paying RSS 10K for each body to develop and market a bracket is a drop in the bucket compared to the increase in sales Sony will get. RSS won't see much money in their wallet making a bracket on their own dime.

That's not an L bracket though and doesn't provide any of the function of an L bracket.

PhotoTraveler said:

chicken/egg problem.

The fact they are a business is why RSS has a hard time justifying
making these brackets for non Nikon or Sony stuff.

Brackets have a very short shelf life, often less than 18months now,
and that's at the extreme end. In reality the marketable life of a
bracket is probably well less than 12 months, by that time those who
were going to buy that model and that bracket have done so. Then
they get stuck with the left over brackets. This means you can't
just make a big lot of them and try to sell them cheap, won't work.
They make them as they go in small batches, from the sounds of
things, around 30-50 a batch.

The price they sell them for is pretty darn reasonable. I've made a
good number of billet parts in that ballpark of complexity and
volume. For them to sell them at 140 bucks, and have them made by an
outside shop, in those volumes is pretty good. They certainly would
work to keep their NRE to where they can recover on the first 30
brackets. Now the owners are the one doing the work there, but still
figure his time is 50 bucks an hour, he could probably spend easily 2
days on a bracket, from eyeing the job up, making a model, getting a
drawing made up, min 2 days. That's 800 bucks, not counting their
efforts in getting a hold of the machine shop and pricing out stuff.
30x140=4200 so 1/5th the money from that first batch is gone. Plus
remember just general overhead and staff (they look to have 5
people). The machine shop cost to them with anodizing is probably 80
bucks minimum. So that's 2400. So now they have burned up 3200
dollars. 1K left. And one could still work out many other parts of
it. So in the end, if they only sell 1 batch, they are just going to
break even. And they probably base the second batch on how the first
did. If sales drop off quick into the second batch, thats a big burn.

A lower price would not drive sales much, what they charge is pretty
reasonable as is. If anything I would expect them to raise the price
on off brands. I'm sure if you offered them enough money they would
make you a one off. I bet many of the brackets they have for medium
format and other wackier stuff is from exactly that. A person who
had the money for that kind of gear, and wanted one and told them
they would pay them 1500 for the bracket and let them make more and
sell them for a much lower price.

The reason for Sony paying them is simple. Sony needs L brackets for
all their cameras. Nikon and Canon get this automatically. Sony
does not. For sony, paying RSS 10K for each body to develop and
market a bracket is a drop in the bucket compared to the increase in
sales Sony will get. RSS won't see much money in their wallet making
a bracket on their own dime.

Click to expand...

That is their choice. I dont think it is Sony's business. It is very low tech work. Granted it is labour intensive the way RRS does it. If Sony really wanted to pay them money, i dont think they will pay $100 for it, they will outsource it to a mass manufacturer and get it done for $10. Sony already sources tripods, it is just a matter of time.

Either there exists a market or it doesnt, if spending 2 days of NRE is too big a deal, then it doesnt exist. Every manufacturer takes some risk, for me RRS is telling Sony users to "shove it" (and they have every right to), i just dont believe in patronizing them. If market exists someone else will come in.

JMO.

N

BackToSlr said:

BackToSlr said:

If market exists someone else will come in.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right.
http://www.mestos.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=01_product_02
I am in touch with them with the help of my buddy's Korean wife.

If RRS doesn't care about their customers who paid for their stuff and now have to dump it, someone else will. These dudes will be producing L-Plate for A900.

Common sense tells me that stuff like L-PLates are cut by automated machines.

Expensive part of the process is to write a program for the machine, but they don't have to write it from scratch - mostly it's a minor tweaking of one of the existing programs RRS already have. I hardly believe it costs RRS big$.

Though I would agree that Sony could step in and do something either paying RRS or sourcing it to someone else. A900 is targeting more or less professional guys who do need RRS-like toys.