How to maintain life of Li Ion batteries....

Hope this is the best forum for the quesiton about maintaining the best life of our lithium ion batteries.

I have done a bunch of my own review of how to maintain a Li ion battery.

So far as I know:

-They do not need any pre conditioning or charging or discharging etc. Fully charge the battery before using it for the first time. That's it.

-They have a limited number of cycles (full charge to complete discharge cycles.)So, it's best to let it get down to near empty before recharging it fully again.

-don't leave a battery that is depleted lying around uncharged. Fully charge it and then pull it out of the charger. Then, if you don't plan to use it for months, put it into the recharger about once per month.

-Li Ion do not have any 'memory'.

-do not store in a fridge. Does nothing.

Aristoc said:

-They have a limited number of cycles (full charge to complete
discharge cycles.)So, it's best to let it get down to near empty
before recharging it fully again.

Click to expand...

From what I have read, Li Ion batteries do NOT have a finite number of cycles. What kills them is just age.

Also, it is bad for a Li Ion battery to be discharged below a point.

Heat will shorten the life (decline of capacity over time) of a Li Ion.

--
CDL



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Unless I missed it, you didn’t actually ask a question.

In any case, Li Ion batts prefer to stay within about 80% and 20-40% of full charge. Further, they do not like to get hot. Either in use or when stored.

-Suntan

Dennis Lathem said:

Aristoc said:

-They have a limited number of cycles (full charge to complete
discharge cycles.)So, it's best to let it get down to near empty
before recharging it fully again.

Click to expand...

From what I have read, Li Ion batteries do NOT have a finite number
of cycles. What kills them is just age.

Also, it is bad for a Li Ion battery to be discharged below a point.

Heat will shorten the life (decline of capacity over time) of a Li Ion.

--
CDL



See Profile for gear stuff (including stuff I have beta tested)
Pbase Supporter

http://www.photobama.com/
http://www.photobama.zenfolio.com

Click to expand...

Yes, they definitely do have a number of finite cycles.

here is a web link someone suggeted: http://www.batteryuniversity.com

I've heard they only have so long regardless of usage.
So after a few years they start to go, even just sitting
around. About 3-4 years life has been my experience.

I've heard it's best to store them partially charged so
don't charge up fully except shortly before you plan on
using them. Partially-full storage helps to prolong their life.

You should not charge if it has about 80% charge left. In other words charging a partially used battery up to full charge will reduce its life cycles.

Dave you're right, As long you are storing your batteries for long periods (month or more) then yes, it is best to leave them at about 50% charge. This will prolong the life as you say.

Unfortunately, Panasonic battery indicator does not show you how much % charge is left. (Canon does when you use CHDK). So with Panny you will have to guess.

Dave Largent said:

I've heard it's best to store them partially charged so
don't charge up fully except shortly before you plan on
using them. Partially-full storage helps to prolong their life.

Click to expand...

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/

-Andy

As well as using photo batteries I use Li Ions for video work and at some £450 each you learn to take great care of them...

Li Ions have a shelf life that starts when they are manufactured. An unused, 3 yr old battery will degenerate so buy from dealers that have a good turnover of stock.

Li Ions degenerate with use and charges, so it is true that partial charging will have an impact on the life of a battery.

They have a more gradual fall off than NiCads so partial use storage isn't a huge issue, (particularly with any battery that has accurate battery indication.)

Internal calibration of Li Ion batteries can go off with multiple charging and show lower capacity than they really have. Some discharge options on some chargers cut off batteries at a predetermined voltage so to recalibrate your battery indicators it's best to run the battery down with a simple draining facility, (it's easier to do this with video cameras than a stills camera because you can just leave then camera on until the battery dies. (NOTE: do not do this with NiCads as it can severly damage the battery.) Li- Ions have an electronically controlled cut-off point to protect them from over-discharge.

Batteries don't like being used in the cold so expect less performance. Keep them warm in your pocket during winter months.

As an interesting aside, the subject of "Memory" with NiCads is actually a bit of a myth...

It comes from the early days of NASA when rechargeable batteries would be used in satellites and so the batteries would discharge at a very constant and precise rate for a very exact amount of time before being recharged by solar panels for an exact amount of time at a very constant rate. This was repeated in exactly the same way for many recycles and under these circumstances the "memory effect" can be induced.

In the real world our batteries receive a more varied lifestyle, what with motor requirements of lenses, LCD viewing, on camera flash use and actually taking the photographs at differing exposure times... Older battery systems exhibit cell imbalance before they show memory effects because they are usually made up of several smaller batteries chained together.

Li Ion batteries employ a complex electronic system, mainly for safety reasons, and part of this is an upside that they maintain their balance better.

Some chargers use a "shock" system to charge their batteries which effectively employs pulse based charging to the cells. This helps maintain the life of your batteries - particularly with NiCads. Alas the info on this from camea manufactures is less than charging specialists in the video world, so we're left to wonder how our batteries are being charged at all.

To be honest, the secret of battery maintainance is in the quality of charger - it's a pity we don't have the info to judge this for ourselves.

At least with camera batteries only costing £50 - £70 it's not expensive to have multilple spares, so my solution is to carry at least twice the capacity that I could ever use on a heavy shoot day.

I do number my batteries and write the date of purchase on them to keep a record of performance. I'd rather see a battery starting to underperform beforehand and replace it, rather than find out on the shoot...!

LEE

My understanding is that you should always recharge your Li Ion batteries after use.

When they talk about Li-Ion batteries having a limited number of charge cycles, they are referring to full charge cycles. If you recharge a battery that's at 80%, it only counts as 20% of a charge cycle.

I have five old Compaq business laptops (7800's} that I purchased used many years ago, they all are over ten years old. I keep two plugged in as monitoring devices ( in standby state) All five have the same removable Li-ion packs. Every few months I rotate the battery packs. They have led charge indicators.

As of today, 2 hold a 90% charge, and 3 a 100% charge when charged up. Have yet to have any fail, even after full discharge for months. Quality Li-ion batteries should thus easily last for over ten years. That is my real life experience.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

Aristoc said:

-They do not need any pre conditioning or charging or discharging
etc. Fully charge the battery before using it for the first time.
That's it.

Click to expand...

You don't need to fully charge them the first time, it doesn't matter, the cell has been cycled all ready in it's life, when you buy it, it's just at another cycle in it's life. But typically when you get a new battery or battery with your new camera, it's been sitting a few months and can use a charge

Aristoc said:

-They have a limited number of cycles (full charge to complete
discharge cycles.)So, it's best to let it get down to near empty
before recharging it fully again.

Click to expand...

NO. You want to minimize deep charges on Lithium. If you have multiple batteries, take them with you and swap them out long before they go dead in the day, put another one in and use it. If you use them up then go back and put the first one in and use it more. But by only pulling them to say 60-70% instead of 30% you will increase their life dramatically.

Aristoc said:

-don't leave a battery that is depleted lying around uncharged. Fully
charge it and then pull it out of the charger. Then, if you don't
plan to use it for months, put it into the recharger about once per
month.

Click to expand...

You don't need to fully charge it, but it's a good idea to put some charge in them every few months.

PhotoTraveler said:

PhotoTraveler said:

-They have a limited number of cycles (full charge to complete

Click to expand...

discharge cycles.)So, it's best to let it get down to near empty
before recharging it fully again.

Click to expand...

PhotoTraveler said:

NO. You want to minimize deep charges on Lithium. If you have multiple batteries, take them with you and swap them out long before they go dead in the day, put another one in and use it. If you use them up then go back and put the first one in and use it more. But by only pulling them to say 60-70% instead of 30% you will increase their life dramatically.

Click to expand...

This is completely true, although fortunately most Li-Ion devices are smart enough to halt use of a battery significantly before a deep discharge.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

Well, they are mainly limited because the voltage is getting too low. You start getting down to say 3v a cell, that's only 6 volts for a a camera battery. The cell will have juice still, but isn't making enough voltage for the dc-dc's in the device to keep producing 5V for the logic or 5-6 volts for mini-motors and such.

But yes, they won't take the cell to "0" you take any cell to 0 SOC and it's basically dead for good.

RDKirk said:

RDKirk said:

RDKirk said:

-They have a limited number of cycles (full charge to complete

Click to expand...

discharge cycles.)So, it's best to let it get down to near empty
before recharging it fully again.

Click to expand...

RDKirk said:

NO. You want to minimize deep charges on Lithium. If you have multiple batteries, take them with you and swap them out long before they go dead in the day, put another one in and use it. If you use them up then go back and put the first one in and use it more. But by only pulling them to say 60-70% instead of 30% you will increase their life dramatically.

Click to expand...

This is completely true, although fortunately most Li-Ion devices are
smart enough to halt use of a battery significantly before a deep
discharge.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

Click to expand...

PhotoTraveler wrote:
edit*

PhotoTraveler said:

PhotoTraveler said:

-They have a limited number of cycles (full charge to complete
discharge cycles.)So, it's best to let it get down to near empty
before recharging it fully again.

Click to expand...

NO. You want to minimize deep charges on Lithium. If you have
multiple batteries, take them with you and swap them out long before
they go dead in the day, put another one in and use it. If you use
them up then go back and put the first one in and use it more. But
by only pulling them to say 60-70% instead of 30% you will increase
their life dramatically.

Click to expand...

edit

LIke I said before, you should not be charging up your batteries when they are only partially discharged ( 80% left). Let them run down to "near empty" as I said above. Photo Traveler's suggestion unfortunately is not the most economical nor does it get you the most out of your battery life and that is what the thread is about.

If you have to go out and buy a few more (3 or 4)batteries at $30 - $50 each, then it no longer becomes economical. And are you really going to keep your camera so long ? You are probably going to be buying a new camera within a few years down the line and that means you are going to probably end up with a different battery type. Even if you do keep your camera for 3 or m ore years, well, the batteries have a shelf life of 3-4 years at most even if they are not used, so they will still have to be disposed of anyways.

Besides, it is not really the most convenient thing to do which is to carry around several spare batteries and keep pulling them out and putting in fresh ones. Don't forget that you would have to number all those batteries so that you don't get mixed up. You would have to know which one you just pulled out and which one is fresh. This is just so impractical for the average photog. IMHO.

Aristoc said:

LIke I said before, you should not be charging up your batteries when they are only partially discharged ( 80% left). Let them run down to "near empty" as I said above. Photo Traveler's suggestion unfortunately is not the most economical nor does it get you the most out of your battery life and that is what the thread is about.

Click to expand...

This is not true with regard to Li-Ion batteries. This battery type should not be run down deeply, and does best on a smart charger that provides a trickle, as long as it's kept in open air so that it can stay cool while charging.

See the articles at http://www.batteryuniversity.com . The author is president and founder of a company that specializes in rechargeable battery analyzers and chargers for industry and the military.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'