5D Image Counter Kicked over, We need another Digit or two

My 5D just kicked over to IMG_0001.

Looking for suggestions how to deal with duplicate image numbers in my hard drive.

I use Picasa for downloading and file browsing. Picasa so far is happy, I guess Picasa also references by file dates, but wondering if anyone else has a problem with other programs.

I think the people who set the standards need to adopt another digit or two, so at least we can wear out the camera before the numbers reset. Or give us a few user settable digits.

I always rename the image files as I copy them to my PC. Bridge has a great file copy/move function, that allows to rename and number them as well as retaining the original file name as meta-data.

--
Later.....Scott...

when the counter "kick over" occurs in the middle of a shoot. In that case, use a renaming utility or if you have few files, do it by hand...

A good way to batch rename is to have the app rename each image with its date and time. When it's done, rename everything with a counter that has one more digit.

DuffysPhotos said:

Looking for suggestions how to deal with duplicate image numbers in
my hard drive.

Click to expand...

You can't.

But what I do is use is a own-made vbs script to copy files from CF or SD to directories named by the shooting dates.

That's easy to do -just vbs programming, using the photo files' 'modified' date to create directories and copy files there.

And you can add photos to your card later on : new ones will be copied but old ones will remain...

--
Raoul

I use Downloader Pro from Breeze Systems to automatically download and rename my files from my card readers. For the file names I use the naming convention suggested by Peter Krogh in his book "The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers."

Each file is renamed as JAN_20081015_xxxx (my initials, the date the photo was taken (copied from the EXIF) and a unique four-digit number generated by Downloader Pro). Using this method there is no possibility that you can have two files with the same names. If any of my camera counters reset I would not even notice.

I would suggest you go to the DAM Book forum at http://thedambook.com/smf/index.php for suggestions and tools to handle such problems.

DuffysPhotos said:

My 5D just kicked over to IMG_0001.

Looking for suggestions how to deal with duplicate image numbers in
my hard drive.

I use Picasa for downloading and file browsing. Picasa so far is
happy, I guess Picasa also references by file dates, but wondering if
anyone else has a problem with other programs.

I think the people who set the standards need to adopt another digit
or two, so at least we can wear out the camera before the numbers
reset. Or give us a few user settable digits.

Click to expand...

suddie1215 said:

Each file is renamed as JAN_20081015_xxxx (my initials, the date the
photo was taken (copied from the EXIF) and a unique four-digit number
generated by Downloader Pro). Using this method there is no
possibility that you can have two files with the same names.

Click to expand...

True.
But if, for some reason, you don't erase the files on a card and shoot again,

then if you just apply again the same rules, you'll get duplicates files - with different names.

Example : When I'm away from home, I usually don't erase my cards as long as I can. This is just one more backup. But, sometimes, I may write a few more files to it...

Waste of hard disk space, when dealing with high number of photos is ennoying.

So, Although I use the shoting date indeed, I keep the original name.

I tried with shuttercount EXIF value (1D serie) but for some unknown reason it can give you duplicates too... and it's harder to do (requires a good exif extraction tool).

--
Raoul

DuffysPhotos said:

I think the people who set the standards need to adopt another digit
or two, so at least we can wear out the camera before the numbers
reset. Or give us a few user settable digits.

Click to expand...

You could just use the folder name to get those digits...
(100EOS1D, 101EOS1D, and so on)
But this will require a strong discipline... Too hard for me.

--
Raoul

--I use Canon's EOS utility. It may not be quite as fast as pulling the card but it works well and lets you rename the files as they are downloaded. I use 5D_XXXXX or 30D_XXXXX using the last four digits as on the card and adding the correct number in place of the first X. My 30D is now on 30D_3xxxx. It works well with no duplicates and I can tell which camera it came from at a glance.

I use the utility too. Easy to create your own ID string for every picture.
Not the fastest but the easyest way.
You can also set the camera to erase the files after downloading.
A kick over in the middle of a shooting isn't a problem then.

--
Enjoying to try making better images again and again and ...

You should pick a file renaming scheme with a lot of thought put to it, because it should be then adhered to moving forward. One might also desire to rename images past, but that's not my call.

I started with this scheme:

YYYYMMDD-[custom]-[image name][.ext]

that would mean

20081015-harriman- MG1234.CR2
20070325-birthday- MG4567.CRW

Now I just omit the custom text (and it hasn't hurt the archiving scheme). That date and image name should never be reproduced. There are other considerations to vary that scheme (camera model inclusion, etc.), but that's what I chose for simplicity and general file browser order (for when searched outside a DAM).

For those that download images from their cards more than once, you either need more discipline, or a DAM that can handle (ingest or reject at will) duplicate file names.

It takes a bit of effort, but only at the onset - and from there one establishes good habits, and it's never a bother again.

--
...Bob, NYC

'Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes, it doesn't.' - Little Big Man

Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/btullis

Repeat of Y2K.. "Nobody would ever need anything other than a 2 digit date"

I personally use the photo capture date in my file naming convention as well. This makes sure that I never have to worry about the file number on the camera. If you use multiple cameras, sync times and add a identifier in the file name for the different cameras you use.

Don't worry about re-naming your old photos, but make sure you stick with your new convention going forward..

That cannot happen...the software is smart enough to recognize images that have already been downloaded and flags them instead of downloading them again.

In any event you can also configure the software to verify that all files have been downloaded, then delete the files from the memory card.

I've used software like Downloader Pro and ImageIngester for at least six years now and I've never encountered any problems like you're suggesting.

raoulJ said:

suddie1215 said:

Each file is renamed as JAN_20081015_xxxx (my initials, the date the
photo was taken (copied from the EXIF) and a unique four-digit number
generated by Downloader Pro). Using this method there is no
possibility that you can have two files with the same names.

Click to expand...

True.
But if, for some reason, you don't erase the files on a card and
shoot again,
then if you just apply again the same rules, you'll get duplicates
files - with different names.

Example : When I'm away from home, I usually don't erase my cards as
long as I can. This is just one more backup. But, sometimes, I may
write a few more files to it...

Waste of hard disk space, when dealing with high number of photos is
ennoying.

So, Although I use the shoting date indeed, I keep the original name.
I tried with shuttercount EXIF value (1D serie) but for some unknown
reason it can give you duplicates too... and it's harder to do
(requires a good exif extraction tool).

--
Raoul

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I don't know any VBS and I don't have any programming tools. Do you mind sharing it with the rest of it here on the forum?

Don't worry if not.

Have a good day

Luben

--

'There are always two people in every picture: the photographer and the viewer.' - Ansel Adams

http://solev.net

I use a similar file format as below, but batch rename only after editing (in Adobe Bridge). Works well for me. I don't bother including the original file name: YYYYMMDD_location_event.ext [e.g. 20071027-ViennaES_playground_0020.JPG]

Bob Tullis said:

You should pick a file renaming scheme with a lot of thought put to
it, because it should be then adhered to moving forward. One might
also desire to rename images past, but that's not my call.

I started with this scheme:

YYYYMMDD-[custom]-[image name][.ext]

Click to expand...

Bobo Hodls said:

Now I just omit the custom text (and it hasn't hurt the archiving
scheme). That date and image name should never be reproduced.
There are other considerations to vary that scheme (camera model
inclusion, etc.), but that's what I chose for simplicity and general
file browser order (for when searched outside a DAM).

...Bob, NYC

Click to expand...

Canon's Zoom Browser has an option to download files into a folder it creates using the date as the folder name. Plug the CF into the reader, 1 mouse click to select ZB from the popup option box, 1 mouse click to tell ZB to download.

ZB can also do some file renaming while downloading if desired.

raoulJ said:

DuffysPhotos said:

Looking for suggestions how to deal with duplicate image numbers in
my hard drive.

Click to expand...

You can't.

But what I do is use is a own-made vbs script to copy files from CF
or SD to directories named by the shooting dates.

That's easy to do -just vbs programming, using the photo files'
'modified' date to create directories and copy files there.
And you can add photos to your card later on : new ones will be
copied but old ones will remain...

--
Raoul

Click to expand...

--
Best regards,
Doug
http://pbase.com/dougj

DuffysPhotos said:

My 5D just kicked over to IMG_0001.

Looking for suggestions how to deal with duplicate image numbers in
my hard drive.

Click to expand...

That is what sub-directories/folders are for!

It is simply bad practice to file all of your images in a SINGLE folder, and asking for problems. How big a problem that is depends on the filing system you are using though, which sets a limit on the maximum number of files that can be stored in any single folder:
FAT32: 65,534 files
NTFS: 4,294,967,295

Don't know the figures for Macs - someone suggested it is only 32,767, which seems a bit low. With that or FAT32, you would only go "round the clock" on the camera a couple of times before running out of space in the folder anyway - which is not necessarily a clean top-out. Anyone who has ever filled a hard drive to the last byte will know it can be impossible to read anything back at all until some data is deleted - so no bets on how clean folder access is when it hits the limit.

In any case, having a huge number of files in a single folder slows file access significantly, even with fast drives. A heirarchical filing system is always faster than a linear one, which is little better than serial access.

DuffysPhotos said:

I think the people who set the standards need to adopt another digit
or two, so at least we can wear out the camera before the numbers
reset. Or give us a few user settable digits.

Click to expand...

Guess which file system your CF card uses? Do you really think that extra couple of digits you want would be that useful, given the limits of the FAT32 filing system? Again, that's what folders are for.

I file all of my images in dated folders (Canon download software can be set to do that automatically) and have the camera set to reset the files counter to zero every time I put an empty CF card in it as it is very rare that I ever need more than one card on a shoot. As a consequence, I have, literally, hundreds of files called IMG_0001.CR2 on my hard drive and have no problems at all. Not saying its the best solution, but it certainly works for me.

--
Its RKM

Its RKM said:

DuffysPhotos said:

My 5D just kicked over to IMG_0001.

Looking for suggestions how to deal with duplicate image numbers in
my hard drive.

Click to expand...

That is what sub-directories/folders are for!

It is simply bad practice to file all of your images in a SINGLE
folder, and asking for problems. How big a problem that is depends
on the filing system you are using though, which sets a limit on the
maximum number of files that can be stored in any single folder:
FAT32: 65,534 files
NTFS: 4,294,967,295

Don't know the figures for Macs - someone suggested it is only
32,767, which seems a bit low. With that or FAT32, you would only go
"round the clock" on the camera a couple of times before running out
of space in the folder anyway - which is not necessarily a clean
top-out. Anyone who has ever filled a hard drive to the last byte
will know it can be impossible to read anything back at all until
some data is deleted - so no bets on how clean folder access is when
it hits the limit.

In any case, having a huge number of files in a single folder slows
file access significantly, even with fast drives. A heirarchical
filing system is always faster than a linear one, which is little
better than serial access.

Its RKM said:

I think the people who set the standards need to adopt another digit
or two, so at least we can wear out the camera before the numbers
reset. Or give us a few user settable digits.

Click to expand...

Guess which file system your CF card uses? Do you really think that
extra couple of digits you want would be that useful, given the
limits of the FAT32 filing system? Again, that's what folders are
for.

I file all of my images in dated folders (Canon download software can
be set to do that automatically) and have the camera set to reset the
files counter to zero every time I put an empty CF card in it as it
is very rare that I ever need more than one card on a shoot.

Click to expand...

Its RKM said:

As a > consequence, I have, literally, hundreds of files called IMG_0001.CR2
on my hard drive and have no problems at all. Not saying its the
best solution, but it certainly works for me.

Click to expand...

If and when you have to retrieve files (using recovery software) from a bad hard drive, the above mentioned duplicate names may NOT be desirable.
--
Vernon...

Its RKM said:

--
Its RKM

Click to expand...

Vernon D Rainwater said:

Its RKM said:

DuffysPhotos said:

My 5D just kicked over to IMG_0001.

Looking for suggestions how to deal with duplicate image numbers in
my hard drive.

Click to expand...

That is what sub-directories/folders are for!

Click to expand...

If and when you have to retrieve files (using recovery software) from
a bad hard drive, the above mentioned duplicate names may NOT be
desirable.

Click to expand...

That is what back-ups and archives are for.

There are "healthy" practices and bodges. Sticking a bandaid on a bodge doesn't make it healthy.
--
Its RKM

DuffysPhotos said:

My 5D just kicked over to IMG_0001.

Looking for suggestions how to deal with duplicate image numbers in
my hard drive.

Click to expand...

How do you find your images? 10,000+ images in one folder on a harddrive, must make it very difficult and time consuming searching for a group of photo's from a special occasion.

As others have said, folders and sub folders, and rename.

All of my images are filed into folders with location(or event) and date for the folders and images, and then I rename the images with the location (or event name) and then a number. eg for airshows, the folder and files contain the location of the airshow and the date, and then the images are numbered 1 to ???? after post processing. Main folder name = Airshows, Sub folder name = Temora 16-6-08, file name = Temora 16-6-08 - ????. Same thing with birthdays, new years eve parties, etc. All named and numbered accordingly.

Guess what, I can always find what I want, very easily.

I seriously suggest you look as changing the way you store your images.

The only time I see duplicate numbering being an issue is if I were to shoot 10 000+ images without being able to anything with them, which would involve alot of CF cards. If I were shooting that much over a few days away from home, I would have a laptop handy for filing the images away into individual folders(at the very least identified by the date of the shots), so again no problem unless you intend to shoot 10 000+ images in one day.

--

To clarify my question;

I do file to unique file folders each time I download projects from CF card(s). After verifying a good download and backups, I will re-format the card in the camera. I generally carry 5 CF cards, numbered one through 5. Never have gone past 3 cards in one day. I also carry a portable battery operated 2.5" hard drive card downloader called a Photobank, which can back up 40GB of cards when I am away from the home office. My travel kit has to be very compact and lightweight, no room for a laptop.

Typically I name the file folder in the format: 2008 10 15 ProjectName. This seems to keep every folder in chronological order in Explorer.

I will also set up one or more sub-folders, such as: 2008 10 15 ProjectNameToPrint

which would contain the images that I have photoshopped and ready to print,

And another sub-folder such as: 2008 10 15 ProjectNameResized

which would contain resized images for cd slideshows or to copy to SD memory cards for photoframes.

I did note that Picasa did not have a problem with the IMG file number rollover when it marked the download from the CF card containing the rollover. That is it didn't mark the new IMG_0001 as already having been loaded to my computer.

I also run frequent backups to two separate external hard drives, using a free software called Karen's Replicator (google that).

Thanks for all the valuable suggestions, everyone has been most helpful. I will keep note of the next rollover, will give a good indication of the number of shutter actuations on my camera.