The Fate of the D60

Dave Knadler · Jul 4, 2002

mgkaplan said:
What I didn't tell you was that I was on the east coast last week.
My suspicions were confirmed.

Ah, the East Coast! Now all becomes clear...

H. Meijer · Jul 4, 2002

and has a right to say that.
free speech blah blah blah.

like dvd that also will die a natural death and what about cars, in the future we all will be flyiing. Forget about television, there will be dream projection when you sleep and see the most beatifull movies. Forget about photography, there will be a micridrive slot in your brain to record pics.

I could go on for a while i think.
About what i did smoke? ehm dunno

i begin to understand what trolls are, execpt those small creatures who live in a forest

mgkaplan said:
With the availability of the Nikon D100 and the Fuji S2, the
marketplace
now has a new set of variables as relates to the D60.

Here is what I believe will be the fate of the D60:

The D60 will soon die a natural death. With the exception of a few
people
who get the occasional cameras that trickle in, the many people who
are
on the waiting lists will not get D60's

What we will see instead is a new camera - perhaps a D60n or a D80.
The
new camera will have much improved autofocus and will be absent the
bugs
that plague the D60. The price of the new camera will be
approximately
$1,699. Any remaining D60's will be repackaged as refurbs and
will be
priced at $999.

The unavailability of D60s three months ago was understandable as
it was a newly introduced product. The unavailability of D60s
today is based upon a well planned and conscious management
decision.

Technology dictates that a new and improved camera is in order - NOW.
Marketing dictates that a new and improved camera is in order NOW.

If my prediction were not true, then why have we not seen a flood of
D60's?

I think that I am right.

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

Per Inge Oestmoen · Jul 4, 2002

Anthony said:
I have to disagree.
Canon WILL have a DSLR in the 1k-2k range that WILL be inferior to
the D60.

Tell us your source, please.

Anthony said:
And it will be very successful.

If a SLR is inferior to the present D60/D100, it will serve no useful purpose.

Anthony said:
I can't see a 1000.00 DSLR losing out to a 5700 coolpix or anything
resembling one.

Of course not, but people buying SLR's are unlikely to buy something that is of lesser value (which it is if the quality is lower) than the D60 and D100 from Nikon.

Why would anyone pay $ 1000 for a body that has lower build and/or CCD quality than the D60, when cameras from Minolta, Sony and Nikon are already pretty good and very much fulfill the requirements of those who are not prepared to buy the price of a DSLR?

By the way, I would never accept a lower build quality than that of the D60 myself.

Per Inge Oestmoen
http://www.coldsiberia.org/

natpark1 · Jul 4, 2002

When you say that there is no market for a DSLR of lower "quality" than the D60 I think you are totally off base. While the people who visit this forum would most likely not purchase such a camera there is still a large consumer market that would prefer a DLSR to a digital P&S.

My father has a Rebel two lenses and a flash...he never really has any prints made larger than 5x7. A 2 to 3 MP DSLR would be great for him and he might go for it if it is in the $500-$1000 range. I doubt that he would do it for the $1000-$2000 range.

How many parents at their kids games or school events that you see with SLR cameras actually print huge prints from those shots?? My guess would be very few. However they have an SLR and like it. These are the people that Canon and/or Nikon will target with the lower end DSLR.

Now that many labs are offering wet prints from digital files at about the same price as film prints there will be no real change for these people from what they currently use, except they don't have to buy film. They don't have to be a computer whiz or even have a photo printer.

So, in short, will there be a "budget" DSLR?? Yes
Will we buy it?? No
Will it be sucessful?? Yes
When?? within 10 years (so what I give conservative predictions)

Brett

Cirkitdude · Jul 4, 2002

What's missing in your "price gap" is the 3D. Remember, the D30/D60 is closest to a digital Elan 7 (EOS 30).

Anthony said:
If you ask me, I think Canon shot themselves in the foot when they
put out a 3k camera for 2199.00.

I remember many of us very surprised at the price announcement.

There's too big a gap between the D60 and the 1D...that's a boo-boo!
Something's missing. The D60 ( it's improved model) should have
been priced at 3K +, while an inferior model should be somewhere
between 1K- 2K range

They may be controlling the market share to keep things
simple....for now.

Marcus Valdes · Jul 4, 2002

Go check out the Nikon SLR forum, it seems like there is a pretty good supply in the initial shipment. Way more than the D60 ever thought about having. Wonder what that says about D60 production?

Carlo Eco said:
mgkaplan said:

With the availability of the Nikon D100 and the Fuji S2, the
marketplace
now has a new set of variables as relates to the D60.

Here is what I believe will be the fate of the D60:

The D60 will soon die a natural death. With the exception of a few
people
who get the occasional cameras that trickle in, the many people who
are
on the waiting lists will not get D60's

What we will see instead is a new camera - perhaps a D60n or a D80.
The
new camera will have much improved autofocus and will be absent the
bugs
that plague the D60. The price of the new camera will be
approximately
$1,699. Any remaining D60's will be repackaged as refurbs and
will be
priced at $999.

The unavailability of D60s three months ago was understandable as
it was a newly introduced product. The unavailability of D60s
today is based upon a well planned and conscious management
decision.

Technology dictates that a new and improved camera is in order - NOW.
Marketing dictates that a new and improved camera is in order NOW.

If my prediction were not true, then why have we not seen a flood of
D60's?

I think that I am right.

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

Click to expand...

--
Marcus Valdes
[email protected]

Bob Jones · Jul 4, 2002

H. Meijer said:
like dvd that also will die a natural death and what about cars, in
the future we all will be flyiing. Forget about television, there
will be dream projection when you sleep and see the most beatifull
movies. Forget about photography, there will be a micridrive slot
in your brain to record pics.

I could go on for a while i think.
About what i did smoke? ehm dunno

i begin to understand what trolls are, execpt those small creatures
who live in a forest

mgkaplan said:

With the availability of the Nikon D100 and the Fuji S2, the
marketplace
now has a new set of variables as relates to the D60.

Here is what I believe will be the fate of the D60:

The D60 will soon die a natural death. With the exception of a few
people
who get the occasional cameras that trickle in, the many people who
are
on the waiting lists will not get D60's

What we will see instead is a new camera - perhaps a D60n or a D80.
The
new camera will have much improved autofocus and will be absent the
bugs
that plague the D60. The price of the new camera will be
approximately
$1,699. Any remaining D60's will be repackaged as refurbs and
will be
priced at $999.

The unavailability of D60s three months ago was understandable as
it was a newly introduced product. The unavailability of D60s
today is based upon a well planned and conscious management
decision.

Technology dictates that a new and improved camera is in order - NOW.
Marketing dictates that a new and improved camera is in order NOW.

If my prediction were not true, then why have we not seen a flood of
D60's?

I think that I am right.

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

Click to expand...

I have never heard so much scare mongering in all my life, why do you have to knock somthing as soon as you get it, The D60's only problem for me has been the exposure problem with wide angle lenses and I have resolved that in camera. The D60 is a GREAT camera and I am more than happy with it, use your and stop trying to find problems that don't really exist...
--
Bob

http://www.bodafon.com

Earney · Jul 4, 2002

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
Earney said:

Can't the Autofocus Issue be sorted by a Firmware Upgrade?

Click to expand...

What autofocus issue?

The D60's autofocus is slower than that on the D1, EOS 1 and 3, to
be sure. But that is hardly an "issue."

Per Inge Oestmoen
http://www.coldsiberia.org/

OK

well the majority of comments and reviews (including the latest installment of the British Journal of Photography review) mention that its Autofocus abilities are not the best feature of the D60. Esp 'hunting' in lower light conditions. That to me is an issue. Although I do lots of Macro work and use lots of Manual Focus anyway

Presumably this sort of thing could be enhanced by new Firmware?

And as for being an issue, well I can't decide between spending £2000 on a D60 or a D100, i am a Minolta user, so really want to have all the facts before I commit, and am platfrom neutral.

Richard
http://www.method-photo.co.uk

John Davis · Jul 4, 2002

mgkaplan said:
With the availability of the Nikon D100 and the Fuji S2, the
marketplace
now has a new set of variables as relates to the D60.

Here is what I believe will be the fate of the D60:

The D60 will soon die a natural death. With the exception of a few
people
who get the occasional cameras that trickle in, the many people who
are
on the waiting lists will not get D60's

What we will see instead is a new camera - perhaps a D60n or a D80.
The
new camera will have much improved autofocus and will be absent the
bugs
that plague the D60. The price of the new camera will be
approximately
$1,699. Any remaining D60's will be repackaged as refurbs and
will be
priced at $999.

The unavailability of D60s three months ago was understandable as
it was a newly introduced product. The unavailability of D60s
today is based upon a well planned and conscious management
decision.

Technology dictates that a new and improved camera is in order - NOW.
Marketing dictates that a new and improved camera is in order NOW.

If my prediction were not true, then why have we not seen a flood of
D60's?

I think that I am right.

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

Cirkitdude · Jul 4, 2002

Speculation... gossip... ignorance + internet = major news

I just must run out and sell my D60 right away before it's worthless.

mgkaplan #79249 · Jul 4, 2002

Why sell your D60?

It is a fine camera. I have captured some wonderful images with mine.

We happen to be fortunate to live in a world where technology gives us up to the minute imporovements to our already fine products. Combine that with marketing and competition, and it only stands to reason that canon will deliver a much improved model to those who are on the waiting list now.

It doesn't degrade the D60s that we have now. It just raises the bar. And I believe that the bugs in the D60 will be resolved via firmware updates.

God bless Canon, Nikon, Fuji and all the rest who cause our cameras to get better and better.

Cirkitdude said:
Speculation... gossip... ignorance + internet = major news

I just must run out and sell my D60 right away before it's worthless.

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

Joe Wilson · Jul 4, 2002

Wanna bet?

mgkaplan said:
With the availability of the Nikon D100 and the Fuji S2, the
marketplace
now has a new set of variables as relates to the D60.

Here is what I believe will be the fate of the D60:

The D60 will soon die a natural death. With the exception of a few
people
who get the occasional cameras that trickle in, the many people who
are
on the waiting lists will not get D60's

What we will see instead is a new camera - perhaps a D60n or a D80.
The
new camera will have much improved autofocus and will be absent the
bugs
that plague the D60. The price of the new camera will be
approximately
$1,699. Any remaining D60's will be repackaged as refurbs and
will be
priced at $999.

The unavailability of D60s three months ago was understandable as
it was a newly introduced product. The unavailability of D60s
today is based upon a well planned and conscious management
decision.

Technology dictates that a new and improved camera is in order - NOW.
Marketing dictates that a new and improved camera is in order NOW.

If my prediction were not true, then why have we not seen a flood of
D60's?

I think that I am right.

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

RichW · Jul 4, 2002

(nt) means no text! This thread doesn't deserve any.

varex2a · Jul 4, 2002

Marcus Valdes said:
Go check out the Nikon SLR forum, it seems like there is a pretty
good supply in the initial shipment. Way more than the D60 ever
thought about having. Wonder what that says about D60 production?

I can only say that at the store I work for we have taken orders for 45 Canon D-60 and only 12 for the Nikon D-100. So if you figure a similar story from other dealers it is easy to see why the D-100 is more available then the D-60.

Frank E. · Jul 4, 2002

You said a mouthfull. I have been using Canon's for many years and have both the D30 and D60. The D60 has some improvements but it is no D30 in many ways. I would have paid more for a more stable camera, or to have my D30 sensor upgraded. I think (other than autofocus speed, which is improved somewhat in the D60) the D30 outperforms the D60.

I hope Canon helps out out!

Frank

Tom Melanson said:
Tom Melanson said:

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

Click to expand...

saddened as I am to admit it, there is no question that the D60 is
a flawed, some might say fatally flawed --and rather
expensive--product.

A significant number of problems have cropped up in the brief time
that the few cameras have been in the marketplace.

Let us face reality people. A camera that has difficulty focusing
and providing an accurate and consistent exposure--never mind
loses files--is not one to inspire great confidence. This is not
a child's toy but a $2k+ piece of equipment.

I have it and am using it. However, knowing what I know now, I
would have kept the D30 and waited for the successor to the 1D.

I have been an "early adopter" in audio and photography. There is
seldom a time when a price does not have to be paid to be "first".
The price this time just happened to be considerably higher than
expected.

I doubt it, but Canon may be struggling with the decision to fix
the problems with the D60 or scrap it while few are actually in
use. One thing is certain. These flaws, when more widely known,
will surely weaken Canon's quality image.
Tom
--
D60, Sigma 14/2.8, Canon 16-35/2.8L, 50.1.4,
28-70/2.8L, 85/1.2L, 70-200 IS USM

Bill Harris · Jul 4, 2002

Leica is still best said:
I can only say that at the store I work for we have taken orders
for 45 Canon D-60 and only 12 for the Nikon D-100. So if you figure
a similar story from other dealers it is easy to see why the D-100
is more available then the D-60.

It's called demand...plain and simple.

millad · Jul 4, 2002

Silicon isn't usually home grown. It's usually purchased via contracts with other companies. Also, ramping up production isn't NEARLY so easy as 'buy more silicon'. There are normally a set number of 'toolsets' that a semiconductor fab purcheses after analysing the future market demand of a product. Then these toolsets are calibrated until they as a collective unit can achieve a process suitable for the product they want to sell. After that they try to achieve a high volume throughput of wafers. Finally they ramp up the wafers coming in. Any one of these toolsets can stop the production of wafers running through the fab at any time if it breaks down or has contamination issues or any number of thousands of reasons. To achieve a higher volume of chips out of the fab you would have to buy more toolsets (and hope that your fab is big enough to accomodate them), calibrate them to the process (this part alone can be very time consuming), hire more people, and finally you can begin to put more wafers in the line.

Anyways, this all translates to one thing: If you underestimate the market demand for the product you want to sell, you will be waiting a considerable amount of time before you can ramp that up. This will take anywhere from 3-6 months if you're lucky.

There probably wouldn't be any shortage at all if Canon would have had their D60 chips produced by one of the many semiconductor foundries availible.

Regards,
~~adam~~

Johnnycb said:
jjb

Johnnycb said:

Despite what people say, this equipment is on a computer technology
cycle, whether the production can keep up or not. Case in point:
Fuji 6900 available July 2001 and in constant demand with high
prices on ebay until December when it was unceremoniously
discontinued. Then it's replacement came out. Fuji's response? We
couldn't keep up with demand nor could we change the production
output. The replacement was clearly an upgrade while the 6900
itself was only an "update" from the 4900, i.e. a better sensor. I
think your prediction is right on the money.

bg

Click to expand...

--
Johnny
Austin, Republic of Texas
http://pbase.com/johnnycb

Anthony · Jul 4, 2002

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
Anthony said:

I have to disagree.
Canon WILL have a DSLR in the 1k-2k range that WILL be inferior to
the D60.

Click to expand...

Tell us your source, please.

Per Inge Oestmoen said:

And it will be very successful.

Click to expand...

If a SLR is inferior to the present D60/D100, it will serve no
useful purpose.

So what you're saying........A Canon D30 built on a Rebel body is useless?
I don't think so

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
Per Inge Oestmoen said:

I can't see a 1000.00 DSLR losing out to a 5700 coolpix or anything
resembling one.

Click to expand...

Of course not, but people buying SLR's are unlikely to buy
something that is of lesser value (which it is if the quality is
lower) than the D60 and D100 from Nikon.

Again, the CMOS sensor in the D30 is superior to ANY digicam in the 1k price range! As a matter of fact, other than the higher end ( 1D, D1x, etc) show me a camera to compare.

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
Why would anyone pay $ 1000 for a body that has lower build and/or
CCD quality than the D60, when cameras from Minolta, Sony and Nikon
are already pretty good and very much fulfill the requirements of
those who are not prepared to buy the price of a DSLR?

Oh, I see...the Nikon coolpix 5000 has a better build quality than ????
Have you ever held a Nikon 5000 in your hand?

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
By the way, I would never accept a lower build quality than that of
the D60 myself.

I never did ask you which camera you had.
And what did you use prior?

Per Inge Oestmoen said:
Per Inge Oestmoen
http://www.coldsiberia.org/

WalterK · Jul 4, 2002

mgkaplan said:
God bless Canon, Nikon, Fuji and all the rest who cause our cameras
to get better and better.

It is our purchase of equipment, our suggestions, wish lists and griping (yes, griping) that makes the next generation of cameras better!

--
Walter K

Phred · Jul 4, 2002

Cirkitdude said:
Speculation... gossip... ignorance + internet = major news

Remember, you heard it first at Dpreview......

Phred

The Fate of the D60

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