Um, is Photoshop too clever?

Janek Czekaj said:

Hi,

For years I've quite happily used a variety of printers - HPs,
Epsons mainly - and never had a problem printing what I saw on the
screen to my printer - not once ever, well, not until joining this
forum.

For it was here that I became obsessed with monitor calibration,
Adobe Gammas, Spyders, Profiling and Profiling software... and now
my pictures, well, they no longer turn out the way they look on the
screen...

Several photos that used to print fine now look dark, dirty and
dingy printed out on the same printer... what has gone wrong...

...I haven't slept the past few nights trawling through threads
here and following links to callibration sites - it's amazing how
many give contradictory info - and reading brilliant PR about why I
should spend vast sums on things to attach to my monitor, etc.

Well, I've just taken the same photos, using the same printer, and
instead of using Photoshop I printed them in one of the other
graphics packages I have - Microsoft Photodraw (now discontinued) -
and the prints turned out to match my monitor perfectly...

I was a bit confused by this until I went back in Photodraw and saw
that, as default, 'Match Screen Colours' is checked... Now, call me
stupid (I am looking for a genuine answer here.), but why can't
Photoshop simply have that option? Seems to work perfectly well in
Photodraw and on a variety of printers.

Or am I missing something?

Janek.

Click to expand...

Ellery Potash said:

Janek Czekaj said:

Hi,

For years I've quite happily used a variety of printers - HPs,
Epsons mainly - and never had a problem printing what I saw on the
screen to my printer - not once ever, well, not until joining this
forum.

For it was here that I became obsessed with monitor calibration,
Adobe Gammas, Spyders, Profiling and Profiling software... and now
my pictures, well, they no longer turn out the way they look on the
screen...

Several photos that used to print fine now look dark, dirty and
dingy printed out on the same printer... what has gone wrong...

...I haven't slept the past few nights trawling through threads
here and following links to callibration sites - it's amazing how
many give contradictory info - and reading brilliant PR about why I
should spend vast sums on things to attach to my monitor, etc.

Well, I've just taken the same photos, using the same printer, and
instead of using Photoshop I printed them in one of the other
graphics packages I have - Microsoft Photodraw (now discontinued) -
and the prints turned out to match my monitor perfectly...

I was a bit confused by this until I went back in Photodraw and saw
that, as default, 'Match Screen Colours' is checked... Now, call me
stupid (I am looking for a genuine answer here.), but why can't
Photoshop simply have that option? Seems to work perfectly well in
Photodraw and on a variety of printers.

Or am I missing something?

Janek.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Strategist said:

Does that make sense? Sort of, about 75% but it is one of the best explanations that I have seen so far.

Click to expand...

Tom Stovall said:

Janek,

I use Monaco, calibrated everything using the monitor "spider" and
get output that is exactly like what I have on the screen. I print
to either an Epson 5500, 1280, or a Kodak 8660.

Does that make sense?

Click to expand...

Tom Stovall said:

I use Monaco, calibrated everything using the monitor "spider" and
get output that is exactly like what I have on the screen. I print
to either an Epson 5500, 1280, or a Kodak 8660.

It is easy to set calibration and forget to ensure that you are
using the monitor profile and the paper profile that you have
created. So, you could go through the entire profiling process and
not select the corrected monitor profile or paper profile when
outputting your photo to the printer. The two Epson printers have
separate paper profiles for each type of paper I use. With the
Kodak, I simply select the Monaco monitor profile from the "print
with preview" dialogue box in Photoshop.

Monaco gives me the option of loading the monaco monitor profile
when my computer boots. Then, I just select the printer profile
I've created for the specific paper type when I print to either of
these printers.

Does that make sense?

Hopefully,
Tom

Ellery Potash said:

Janek Czekaj said:

Hi,

For years I've quite happily used a variety of printers - HPs,
Epsons mainly - and never had a problem printing what I saw on the
screen to my printer - not once ever, well, not until joining this
forum.

For it was here that I became obsessed with monitor calibration,
Adobe Gammas, Spyders, Profiling and Profiling software... and now
my pictures, well, they no longer turn out the way they look on the
screen...

Several photos that used to print fine now look dark, dirty and
dingy printed out on the same printer... what has gone wrong...

...I haven't slept the past few nights trawling through threads
here and following links to callibration sites - it's amazing how
many give contradictory info - and reading brilliant PR about why I
should spend vast sums on things to attach to my monitor, etc.

Well, I've just taken the same photos, using the same printer, and
instead of using Photoshop I printed them in one of the other
graphics packages I have - Microsoft Photodraw (now discontinued) -
and the prints turned out to match my monitor perfectly...

I was a bit confused by this until I went back in Photodraw and saw
that, as default, 'Match Screen Colours' is checked... Now, call me
stupid (I am looking for a genuine answer here.), but why can't
Photoshop simply have that option? Seems to work perfectly well in
Photodraw and on a variety of printers.

Or am I missing something?

Janek.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

Ellery Potash said:

I advise that I have done no such color
calibration and get satisfactory results with my HP Printer. I've
just received a new Canon S9000 (for the wider width) and have had
some problems with the first few prints; leading me to believe that
some corrections may be necessary , here (though some threads in
this forum hint that this printer's output gets better with use).

Janek Czekaj wrote:

Click to expand...

Kevinpc said:

Hi,

My understanding of the way colour management works in photoshop
and should work in other software is this;

First you calibrate your monitor with a device like the spider
(spectrophotometer).

Then in Photoshop you setup a "working colour space". I've choosen
Adobe RGB 1998 as it translates well into CMYK. (Don't print in
CMYK as most desktop printers are setup to work with RGB but they
are still CMYK devices) Adobe RGB 1998 is a sort of generic colour
space loosely based on HDTV production standards. It's important
because it becomes a sort of target for PhotoShop.

PhotoShop uses your monitor profile to try to achieve Adobe RGB
1998 on your screen. If everyone did this, no matter how different
their monitors were, they would be aiming at the same thing and
therefore would see similar results from the same file.

If you take this one step further you could also make your printer
aim at that same target. You do this in the print with preview
dialog. Your source space is Adobe RGB 1998 and your printer space
is whatever printer/ink/paper combination you use. Now your monitor
and your printer are aiming at the same target and you get a match.
It's very important to make sure you are using accurate profiles
for this to work.

I would avoid Adobe Gamma unless you have no other choice. There is
too much subjectivity here. I use ColorBlind Proveit because it
does two things. It calibrates my monitor then it profiles it.
There are a few packages out there that do this Monaco EzColor
works well also as does Optical and the color spider.

I know it sounds like a lot of work to achieve something that used
to work out of the box. Colour management does work though. Don't
get too discouraged.

Hope this helps,

Kevin.

Click to expand...

Mike Chaney said:

The difference could simply be the color space that is getting
assumed for your images when they are opened. If PhotoShop has the
wrong starting point, it may not be converting to the proper screen
colors. Most imaging software that is not fully ICC aware (can't
discern the true color space of the image) will assume sRGB for all
images. PhotoDraw is probably doing that, although I've never used
it so I can't be sure. PhotoShop also matches screen colors based
on the ICC profile that you have associated with the display on the
"Color Management" tab in display properties.

You might want to try clicking "Edit", "Color Settings" in PS and
change your RGB working space to sRGB. Or... if PS asks you what
color space to use when you open your images, choose sRGB.
Technically, that should make PS give you the same color as
PhotoDraw (if PhotoDraw is doing what I think it is). If not, then
PhotoDraw must just be doing something non-standard.

Just a guess.

--
Mike
http://www.ddisoftware.com

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