D1x Vs. Fuji S2???

Anyone else done some research on these two? Seems like the S2 has better specs (and certainly a better price), but I'm looking for someone to tell me why I might want to go with the Nikon D1x instead?

Also, I know the S2 only shoots 1fps in RAW mode - anyone know what the D1X shoots per second in RAW?
Thx soooo much!!
--
BayAreaPhotographer

You will with the D1X get by far a much better camera,- stronger housing with better measuring and autofocusspeed, a trigger for vertical shots, better flashmetering and a 100% competible Nikon accessories program. A highend cam all the way thru. So even if the S2 is better with the pictures, all things around the camera is on the D1X's side. I know the Fuji S1, as I have worked with it for over a year now, and I can only say, it does a great job. So the S2 will do an even better job. I have not done any compares on the S2 at all, but I would try to find my needs,- it you dont have to use a highend cam for your job, you can save a lot of coins by picking the Fuji.

You get a 3 pics / sec. on the Nikon with a 6 frame buffer in Raw or a 9 frame tiff buffer. If speed is crusial to you, you can get the Nikon D1H with a burstrate of 26 raw pics at 5 pic/sec. or 40 jpg or tiff's at 5 pic/sec. The fastest cam yet.

But you have to focus on your needs,- for speed take the D1H, for highend metering, focus and flash features, and strong housing take the D1X, and if you just want the great skintone, skintone and skintone with high resolution (12 mp intp.) save some money and take the Fuji. And Fuji is the only one to have an in camera mutiexposure..... great. And it is almost half the weight.

Here you have some links.

To se how the old S1 is compared with the D1X see here
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond1x/page23.asp

The fuji page:
http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/fujidc/fps2pro/index.html

For S2 samples:
http://www.digitalcamera.jp/report/S2Pro-020602/index.htm
http://myalbum.ne.jp/cgi-bin/a_menu?id=fa849780

Henrik Franke said:

You will with the D1X get by far a much better camera,- stronger
housing

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So far, I agree.

Member said:

with better measuring and autofocusspeed,

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I suspect an English grammar problem here. Yes, the D1x autofocus speed is a bit faster with off-center and low-light subjects, but the "measuring speeds" are the same. The D1x does have the benefit of color matrix metering that the S2 and D100 don't, which is what I think you might be referring to.

Member said:

a trigger for
vertical shots,

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In a year of shooting with a D1x, I've used it once. It has partly to do with the way I run verticals on my ball head--the vertical release ends up on the wrong side (down, not up). But even hand-held, I don't tend to use the vertical release, and I've noticed a lot of the other pros do the same.

Member said:

better flashmetering and a 100% competible Nikon
accessories program.

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Well, there I have to disagree. First, the flash sensors in the two cameras are exactly the same. But the D1x has a liability the S2 doesn't: it can only TTL with the DX flashes, and it must always put out preflash to meter in TTL modes. The S2 uses the more flexible film body approach, which also measures during exposure and doesn't require preflash (though it uses it in balanced fill-flash modes).

And as for accessories, the S2 Pro uses virtually all of the Nikon N80 accessories, though it can't use the added grip with vertical release.

Member said:

A highend cam all the way thru.

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I agree, totally. The D1x is a great camera.

Member said:

So even if the
S2 is better with the pictures, all things around the camera is on
the D1X's side.

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That's a bit of an overstatement. And isn't the whole point to take better pictures?

At my next workshop I'll have a D1x, S2 Pro, and D100 in my case. It'll be interesting to see the quality of photographs from each, given the same conditions and lenses.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

There are only three things to remember about professional digital cameras -- Nikon, Canon and Kodak. They simply have more experience and build better cameras and chips. Kodak had a head start (with government projects) but they had to use Nikon and Canon bodies in the pro world, and they have now lost their lead about a year ago, and will probably settle for the consumer market. GWA

Lisa Leigh said:

Anyone else done some research on these two? Seems like the S2 has
better specs (and certainly a better price), but I'm looking for
someone to tell me why I might want to go with the Nikon D1x
instead?
Also, I know the S2 only shoots 1fps in RAW mode - anyone know what
the D1X shoots per second in RAW?
Thx soooo much!!
--
BayAreaPhotographer

Click to expand...

Gary Armstrong said:

There are only three things to remember about professional digital
cameras -- Nikon, Canon and Kodak. They simply have more
experience and build better cameras and chips. Kodak had a head
start (with government projects) but they had to use Nikon and
Canon bodies in the pro world, and they have now lost their lead
about a year ago, and will probably settle for the consumer market.
GWA

Click to expand...

Rather a sweeping generalisation, Gary.

The S2 has a Nikon body, but a Fuji chip. Fuji has just as much (if not more) experience in chips and associated electronics as any of the other manufacturers.

--
Steph's Digitals
http://www.stephsdigitals.com

Lisa,

What is your type of photography?

The difference in price does favour the S2 for certain uses.

Raul

Lisa Leigh said:

Anyone else done some research on these two? Seems like the S2 has
better specs (and certainly a better price), but I'm looking for
someone to tell me why I might want to go with the Nikon D1x
instead?
Also, I know the S2 only shoots 1fps in RAW mode - anyone know what
the D1X shoots per second in RAW?
Thx soooo much!!
--
BayAreaPhotographer

Click to expand...

First of all, thank you all so much for your great answers - very much appreciated. I do high-end wedding photography (yes, a cliche, but photojouranlism style), and have been known to beat my equipment up from time to time (so, durability is one of the key things for me!) - but of course, since I am trying to capture certain moments during a wedding, speed/response time in camera, flash (& lens, of course) is the most crucial to me. This is why I ask about FPS in RAW mode (which is what everyone tells me I want to shoot in). Someone told me that the S2 can only shoot 1 fps in RAW mode, but I have no comparrison with the D1x.

Secondly, I've also noticed that there is a bit of shutter delay - or lag - in some cameras, but have no idea if the Fuji has this or not (i noticed that the D1x has none, as far as I can tell, and I would be bummed if I bought the S2 and it had this - and by lag time, I mean from when I press the shutter release button to when the camera actually takes the picture).

Also, what are the flash issues with either/both?

So, in order of importance to me, here are my issues/questions:

• fps in RAW mode
• speed in terms of shutter delay (related to above? not sure)
• flash relaibility/useability
• durability

BTW, none of my clients ever blow anything up to over 8x10...and I use Photoshop 7.0 sparingly, and print at a digital lab, if any of that matters at all!

Thank you all again!!! Lisa

Raul said:

What is your type of photography?

The difference in price does favour the S2 for certain uses.

Raul

Lisa Leigh said:

Anyone else done some research on these two? Seems like the S2 has
better specs (and certainly a better price), but I'm looking for
someone to tell me why I might want to go with the Nikon D1x
instead?
Also, I know the S2 only shoots 1fps in RAW mode - anyone know what
the D1X shoots per second in RAW?
Thx soooo much!!
--
BayAreaPhotographer

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
BayAreaPhotographer

I have to add some things here. As I use my cam for models and clothing, my shots are 98% vertical, and I am therefor verry interested in a vertical shutterrelease button. I still consider me a pro thu.

If you look at the S2 and D1X on the digital side only, the two models are very much the same quality,- maybe even the Fuji is better i terms of picture size and colors, multiexposure, 18 user costum settings. So this "minor" area is only to be reviewed in a side-by-side test.

But now take the Nikon F5 and the Nikon N80 without the digital parts and put them side by side. This is the difference. A highend top of the line pro camera with ALL the strength, power, functionality and accessories,- all the small and large advances compared to a maybe-not-even midrange camera as the N80. We are not talking F100 or X90, witch to me are two great cameras. The N80 is NOTHING compared to the F5. Have you ever meet a "real" pro using the N80?? Neither have I.

But I am still in love with me S1, so I know when it comes to that point, I would maybe pick the S2. Mostly because of skintone, low weight and simple to use.

And to Garry,- you should have kept on reading about the digital market two years ago, instead of living in that old dream. The Fuji cams are great, the Contax, Olympus, Canons and what they all are called are great. And if Kodak is such a great maker of digital cams, why is their Proback with the Kodak chip inside not the best around?? There are lots of great cams out there,- and Fuji is surely one of them.

GF104420 said:

• fps in RAW mode

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The D1X is 6 shots at 3 fr/sec. and the S2 is 7 shots at 2 fr/sec. Nothing to seperate them.

GF104420 said:

• speed in terms of shutter delay (related to above? not sure)

Click to expand...

I am working with the S1 right now, and it has a long delay time,- if the S2 has this too i dont know, but D1X is only 58 ms,- wich is nothing. You have to think about the autofocus (if you use it at all) that a slow autofocus will kill your triggerspeed. The S1 is VERRY poor on the autofocus. I have used the F5 with film,- and this focuswork is monster fast. The focus of the N80 is not even close to that,- only tried on film.

GF104420 said:

• flash relaibility/useability

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D1X has a better handle of flash,- Nikon DX flashes. The D1X and the S2 both has 5 flash sync methodes. The S2 syncs at 1/125 sec and the D1X at 1/500 sec. great for fillflash.

GF104420 said:

• durability

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This is the major force of the D1X. Its a tank.......

If you dont need the monster durability of the D1X, I would say you could do the same job with the S2. Maybe even better. It has these major points compared to the Nikon (MPOV):

• Great color
• Great skintone
• Great interpolated 12 mp pics
• Easy (and fast) to use.
• Multiexposure mode (only cam on the market)
• Up to 30 sec. voice memo for each shot (great for names or info)
• Lightweight. You have to be strong for the D1X a hole day. (S2: 760 g. / D1X 1.200 g.)
• Two card slots
• DOF check button (missed of the S1)
• Price (half the Nikon)

All this said, I would maybe go and have a look at the D100 from Nikon. It is at the same pricerange of the S2, and looks to me as a better choise.

Henrik Franke
Webmanager s.i.

I forgot this.....

The S2 is using a white light for focus assistance (AF Assist Illuminator lamp) witch is a small flashlight kind of thing. It is VERY desturbing during shootings i low light conditions,- and I just hate it. Even ef you ad a flash with IR-focus, it still lights up. It makes people look at you when you just touch the shutterbutton, and makes the shot of "situations" imposible. Maybe an imortant point for you at weddings.....

Henrik Franke said:

Member said:

• fps in RAW mode

Click to expand...

The D1X is 6 shots at 3 fr/sec. and the S2 is 7 shots at 2 fr/sec.
Nothing to seperate them.

Click to expand...

I think you're going by a spec sheet here. I'll caution everyone to make conclusions about this until tests of real cameras come out. Since I'm under embargo, I can't say anything at the moment, but I would have answered this part of the question quite differently. Surprisingly differently.

Member said:

Member said:

• speed in terms of shutter delay (related to above? not sure)

Click to expand...

I am working with the S1 right now, and it has a long delay time,-
if the S2 has this too i dont know, but D1X is only 58 ms,- wich is
nothing. You have to think about the autofocus (if you use it at
all) that a slow autofocus will kill your triggerspeed. The S1 is
VERRY poor on the autofocus. I have used the F5 with film,- and
this focuswork is monster fast. The focus of the N80 is not even
close to that,- only tried on film.

Click to expand...

It's not quite that simple. The N80 and F5 are nearly identical in autofocus speed if only the central sensor is used. It's low light and off-center subjects that tend to trip the N80. Also, there's considerable difference between the lag of the N60 body (S1) and N80 body (S2).

Member said:

Member said:

• flash relaibility/useability

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D1X has a better handle of flash,- Nikon DX flashes.

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I'll repeat what I've posted earlier. I don't think so. The DX flash technology used in the Nikon digital SLRs is burdened by having to always calculate TTL from the pre-flash. For folks that bounce or diffuse flash, use flash outdoors or in large rooms, use flash at low levels or with somewhat non-reflective objects, this becomes a real problem. Measuring during exposure, as the S2 does, is a real advantage in those situations.

Member said:

The D1X and
the S2 both has 5 flash sync methodes. The S2 syncs at 1/125 sec
and the D1X at 1/500 sec. great for fillflash.

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Agreed

Member said:

Member said:

• durability

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This is the major force of the D1X. Its a tank.......

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Agreed

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

Henrik Franke said:

But now take the Nikon F5 and the Nikon N80 without the digital
parts and put them side by side. This is the difference. A highend
top of the line pro camera with ALL the strength, power,
functionality and accessories,- all the small and large advances
compared to a maybe-not-even midrange camera as the N80. We are not
talking F100 or X90, witch to me are two great cameras. The N80 is
NOTHING compared to the F5. Have you ever meet a "real" pro using
the N80?? Neither have I.

Click to expand...

You haven't been around much, then. It's one of the cameras of choice for those of us who traipse around in the backcountry and have to trim the weight of what we carry. As Galen Rowell has written, the photographer makes the picture, not the camera (and yes, he shoots with an N80 from time to time).

But I also need to correct a misconception about the F5 and N80. The F5 actually has an older, slower autofocus system. Much of its vaunted speed is due to the beefed up autofocus screw motor. But both the F100 and N80 will outperform the F5 with AF-S lenses (the N80 only using the central sensor, though). It's one of the reasons why you'll see pro sports shooters using an F100 instead of an F5.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

Henrik Franke said:

The S2 is using a white light for focus assistance (AF Assist
Illuminator lamp) witch is a small flashlight kind of thing. It is
VERY desturbing during shootings i low light conditions,- and I
just hate it. Even ef you ad a flash with IR-focus, it still lights
up.

Click to expand...

If you are using a Nikon Speedlight with an autofocus assist lamp (red), the S2 will use that instead of camera light. And I agree, it's disturbing, but easily turned off.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

Lisa Leigh said:

flash (& lens, of course) is the most crucial to me. This is why I
ask about FPS in RAW mode (which is what everyone tells me I want
to shoot in).

Click to expand...

Well, maybe. For wedding photographers, the post-shoot workflow can be an issue with RAW files on both cameras. Also, you're talking massive storage requirements for a wedding, as you'd only fit 80 RAW files on a 1GB Microdrive with the Fuji, about 120 with the D1x. Most digital wedding photogs I know use JPEG, low or no sharpening.

GF104420 said:

Someone told me that the S2 can only shoot 1 fps in
RAW mode, but I have no comparrison with the D1x.

Click to expand...

Frames per second isn't the best way to compare two cameras. The Canon 1D does 8 fps, but fills its buffer in 2 seconds. The Nikon D1h does 5 fps but fills its buffer in 8 seconds. Which would you rather have? Depends upon what you're shooting. Likewise, once a buffer is filled, the time to next shot is very important. Five seconds to next shot is better than 10 seconds. Put another way, if you hold down the shutter release for 1 minute, how many frames would you end up with? In general, I'd always take the camera that produced the most frames.

GF104420 said:

Secondly, I've also noticed that there is a bit of shutter delay -
or lag - in some cameras, but have no idea if the Fuji has this or
not (i noticed that the D1x has none, as far as I can tell, and I
would be bummed if I bought the S2 and it had this - and by lag
time, I mean from when I press the shutter release button to when
the camera actually takes the picture).

Click to expand...

Shutter lag on an N80 is very very low in manual focus with autofocus assist and a few other fancy, but not overly useful features turned off.

GF104420 said:

Also, what are the flash issues with either/both?

Click to expand...

Look for my other posts. There's a world of difference here, especially if you want to use multiple wireless flash.

GF104420 said:

BTW, none of my clients ever blow anything up to over 8x10...and I
use Photoshop 7.0 sparingly, and print at a digital lab, if any of
that matters at all!

Click to expand...

That would point to JPEG, not RAW.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

Thom Hogan said:

At my next workshop I'll have a D1x, S2 Pro, and D100 in my case.
It'll be interesting to see the quality of photographs from each,
given the same conditions and lenses.

Click to expand...

Thom, when might we look forward to your comments and feedback on the side by side comparision of the three cameras?
--
Zane
http://www.pbase.com/devonshire

Lisa,

No way to compare the two cameras in accordance to your activity: I would go for the D1x.

I have a D1x (had a D1) and an S1. I shall change the S1 for the S2.
But what I really depend on is the D1x.

This is my very personal opinion based on too many crazy considerations
of my own that are way too many, and probably mistaken, to describe here.

Good luck to you
Regards
Raul

Henrik Franke said:

• Great interpolated 12 mp pics

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Regarding this, I wonder if you might be able to answer a couple of questions I have:

1. What is the maximum print size (at 360 dpi, 300 dpi, & 240 dpi) one could print with a 12 mp image?

2. Is the Fuji in-camera interpolation superior to that produced by a third party software product such as Genuine Fractals?

Thanks,
Dan

WOW,- what a joy to be in this forum. No matter what you want to know, someone does know.... great.

Thanks for polling me in on this. I didnt know this, and it is just another point to the S2, as I see it.

Henrik Franke said:

But now take the Nikon F5 and the Nikon N80 without the digital
parts and put them side by side. This is the difference. A highend
top of the line pro camera with ALL the strength, power,
functionality and accessories,- all the small and large advances
compared to a maybe-not-even midrange camera as the N80. We are not
talking F100 or X90, witch to me are two great cameras. The N80 is
NOTHING compared to the F5. Have you ever meet a "real" pro using
the N80?? Neither have I.

Click to expand...

May I point out, any camera is ONLY as good as the person operating it? It really doesn't matter what camera a pro uses, if they are getting the quality images they need to make a living with what they shoot! I think it's more important for a person to find a camera that is comfortable for them to use & operate well.

Member said:

But I am still in love with me S1, so I know when it comes to that
point, I would maybe pick the S2. Mostly because of skintone, low
weight and simple to use.

Click to expand...

I too, love my S1 I have shot over 20,000 images on it since Sept 2000. The camera has never failed me. Many times I shoot side by side with people using the D1 or D1x & the Canon. I see the images shot under the same conditions at the same time I shot...And I think I have made the right desicion in my Fuji camera.

I am NOT easy on my cameras, and they are not babied at all. I can't tell you how many cameras, lenses and flashes have hit cement floors in my life! I shoot in very dusty, hot, sunny, cold, rainy, dark conditions (without flash). Not all at the same time, but depending on the event. So the theory that the bodies Fuji uses are not tough enough, is irrelevent to me, since I know my S1 has stood up to my rough use and abuse.

Tomorrow I go to pick up my S2, I can't wait! To me, the image quality is more important than all the bells & whistles. I don't think I'd be able to haul around the Nikon cameras ALL weekend without killing myself. I have played around with them, but they are very heavy and large for my hands. If I felt these cameras were what I was looking for, I would purchase them. Money isn't an issue, when I am looking for quality in my end product.

When I was shooting all film, I was a fan of Fuji films. I still use Fuji film, when I need to shoot film. I like the color saturation, and sharpness. I owned a One Hour Photo lab for many years. I saw all kinds of films, so I got to develop (sorry) my opinion of what I liked best very easily. I guess it's just natural I gravitated to the Fuji DSLR.

In my opinion, it's about the picture, not the all extra stuff the camera has. Yes, some extras may help you get a great shot more easily, but who every uses every single toy a camera has to offer?

The shop I am getting my S2 from had a demo camera in for a day last week. They were VERY impressed, they said if I liked my S1, I will LOVE this S2. They told me the focusing is unbelieveabley fast! I can't wait. I only occassionaly had issue with the focus speed on the S1, for my action shots. There have been times I wished I had faster focus speed. Shooting animals and those in action, really does require a fast focus & shutter release speed, with no lag time. The guys at the shop said the image quality is unbeatable as well. I only wish the Sync speed was faster, but that's not a huge issue, since I'm not allowed to use a flash when shooting dog sport events. I have also been told that the noise at 1600ISO is much better now too.

This is the kind of stuff I look for in my camera. What others are looking for, certainly won't be the same as my requirements. You need to weigh each and every option, and actually have the cameras in your hands to really decide what's best for you....I think.

Alissa
pet-personalities.com

It's sometimes hard to write here at this forum,- especialy when it comes to this "what to pick" thing,- because there is a lot of relegion hidden in it. So what I try to do, is to give as much "neutral" information as I can, without getting my heart to move in on it too. And sometimes my data is inacurate, and some helpfull people help me out here. Thanks alot for that.

But then again it sometimes get a little strange, like I am getting "accused" for trying to force my "choise" to someone, wich i dont. I try to be as neutral as polisble and to let the other person pick the camera. In this case "S2 vs. D1X" I just listed all the things I knew about the two cams (lets forget the wrong ones for now) and tried to give my oppinion on how these differences could have an influence on the daily job. And still some of you are reading it with you feeling. For exampel when I talk about the strenght of the camera housing, I just say that the D1X is stronger. And still some of you read it as if I say the S2 is weak. If I say most pro's are going for the F5 instead of the N80, its just to tell that the D1X IS A PRO CAM, not a semi pro or amatuer camera,- i'm not saying that the S2 cant be used by pros. All my added info is just to make the one who asked in the first place able to pick the cam that would fit best in to the job. And when I take data from datasheets, its because i cant show a reat side-byside test, and the only thing we can hang our hats on with the S2, is datalistings and 5 or 6 samples on the internet. It would not help alot if I said "Buy the S2" or "In my job the D1X is the best". I try to help.....

So pleas,- I am very greatfull for all the corrections I get here, and it all help me to gain knowledge,- but there is to much hustel around here too. Try to be more open, and to read what is written, not what you think is written. I hate to defend my adds when there is nothing wrong in them,- only the point of view.....