The end of SLRs as we know them

Guy's I have SLRs that have been in use for over 10 years, the question comes over application and use. When thinking of their reliability, think of their size and power density, then think of the number of them there are. Then ask, what spec are these devices produced to , MIL STD, I think not.

I am just pointing out the EVF is not the answer to the maiden prayer.
 
Of course,
classical music may be different because classical music fans
overwhelmingly voted for the CD and they were among the earliest
adopters of the format.
In the beginning this was true, but then they discovered the downsides.
Because of this, SACD was developed.
And most SACD re-mastered CDs that have been takne from analogue(not digital) recordings actually sound better than the standard CD version. The SACD 2.8Mhz sampling frequency means a theoretical 100khz upper limit to the frequency band.
May be it is because they can hear a
difference and CDs simply sound much better.
No, classical music does not sound so much better on CD.
On the contrary I say!
It can if it is an analogue master tape recorded using the SACD recording technique rather than converting it to CD using the standard 44.1Khz sampling rate. The former gives a theoretical upper frequency limit of 100Khz wheras the latter only gives a 22.05Khz upper frequency limit. This 220.5Khz upper limit has been thought to hamper upper level harmonics which can feed back down into the audible frequency band and thus distort sound.

Having listened to some analogue master tapes of classical music(for the vilins which are noted for their difficulty on CD) transcribed to SACD with it's 2.8Mhz sampling rate and compared them to digital master tapes which were recorded at the 44.1Khz sampling rate, the SACD versions sound as good as my LP's.
Classical music sounds
so much nicer because during the quieter passages you don't hear the
annoying clicks and pops from the LP record sounding louder than the
music.
That is an advantage with CD yes, but LP has a more expansive
soundstage.
SACD has this expansive sound stage. It is quite amazing even in stereo mode.
Since the needle is moving, LP is limited in dynamic range
and bass respons
Actually, the CD is limited in dynamic range.
This is because most CD's are made with heavy dynamic compression, so
LP-recordings actually has more dynamic range. Only a very few CD's,
most from specialist little enthusiast companies, makes CD's that are
not dynamically compressed. Popular music on CD sounds much more
thinner than the same music on LP, because of this.
Telarc to name one, does not use any compression, but there are many. It is not quite correct to say that all music is compressed. LP's are definitely compressed, though.
High end turntables and phono catridges also cost
enormous sums of money.
And so does high-end CD players, transports and DAC's.

I have a Thorens TD280MkII "vinyl spinner" (formely known as
turntable) with Denon DL160 high output MM-cartridge. (I also have an
OM20 cartridge).
I have a Thorens TD160MKII with a Grace arm and it sounds superb !
This is a less expensive setup than my Pioneer 575A
SACD/DVD-Audio/DVD-player which is connected to an Alchemist TS-1D
24/96 DAC.
I am running a Marantz SR7001 KI SACD player and a Plinius amp, tested to 350watts RMS a channel into my 4ohm Orpheus Speakers, in stereo. The dynamics are amazing!
Now, which ones sounds the best?
I say, it depends - but for most music and most recordings, I
actually prefers LP over CD, beacuse it sounds better.
The more I listen to music, the more I firmly believe that it depends on the recording engineer more than anything. Don't forget that the engineers have to record the music according to what they believe most people will be replaying it on. If the recording is of a pop group and is more than likely going to be played on an cassette tape and the demographic who played it was more than likey to play it through a boom box, then the engineer may boost the bass and treble a bit to make up for the deficiencies of the playback equipment. Having heard some of these recordings, I can assure you that this sort of practice went on. Also, many of the old recordings were engineered with less emphasis on the bass content as 99% or record players could not reproduce it anyway, especially those recordings where the demograhic was less likely to be able to afford the top flight equipment to replay it on.
This even holds true for the Tears for fears digitally recorded and
mixed "Seeds of love" album, I prefer it on LP over the CD. (the
re-mastered CD edition is a closer call, but still, it sounds so much
more expansive and room filling with LP.
On CD, the music is inbetween my speakers (ALR/Jordan Entry 2M).
On LP, the music fills the whole room, way beyond the speakers.
This is easily and clearly heard, but I have to admit that the Denon
cartridge do shrinks the soundstage compared to the Ortofon OM20, on
the other hand - Denon has deeper bass.
This happens with many of my SACD remastered versions of many popular works, especially from analogue master tapes rather than from digital master tapes. To hear Elton John's Honky Chateau is breathtaking in it's room filling sound stage. I have friends that have heard it and cannot believe that it only stereo! They pick sounds well beyond the speakers and the instruments are rock solid in their positioning. Some of the remastered SACD's of the Moody Blues is also amazing, to the point that there are instruments I hadn't heard on the SACD version compared to the LP or CD version.
--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b

 
Well yes it is true that the engineers plays a large part here, but it is sort of fun that the all-digital recording and mastering of the Tears for fears "Seeds of love" recording sounds better on LP - this recording was made to promote and highlight the advantages of CD over LP. (and the TFF European tour was "sponsored by Philips Compact Disc").
So what went wrong?

I actually bought my Thorens just because how lovely "Woman in chains" sounded on it. The drum patterns and room filling sound was very touching.

I have gone through many CD solutions - my first being a Philips portable CD player (one of the first CD "walkmans"). But I was not happy with the sound so I went for a stationary player, the NAD 5225.
Then I upgraded it to a Micromega Junior.

Now I have a Pioneer DVD/SACD-player acting as a transport, and uses an external 24/96 DAC.
All this has been very expensive.

But my Thorens is still going strong. I have only changed the pick up cartridge, and the disc belt (they tend to get loose by time).

All in all, my vinyl playing has been much more economic and has given me much better sound quality for the money.
I'm still not entirely happy with my CD sound.
I see no reason to change my turntable anyday soon.
But I may change my CD setup, again...
So there is something fundamentally wrong with CD.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
I have an inexpensive budget Thorens turntable, well it was that in it's days (late 80's).

I also have a Pioneer 575A DVD/SACD-player that I run as a transport with Alchemist TS-1D 24/96 external DAC.

I have several albums on both vinyl and CD.

The vinyl versions has a more room filling sound, the instruments sounds beyond my speakers. With CD the instruments sounds between my speakers, but not beyond them.

The soundstage with vinyl i so much larger and expansive with more depth, with CD the different sounds are tighter together and it is harder to identify individual instruments because of this since they have less space between them in the mix.
And beacuse of this, vinyl sounds better because it is more room filling.
Everyone can detect this in my living room. It is very easy.

This is true evern for the Tears for fears "Seeds of love" album that is digitally recorded and mixed. And yet, the vinyl version has more expansive and vivid soundstage than the CD version.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
Everyone can detect this in my living room. It is very easy.

This is true evern for the Tears for fears "Seeds of love" album that
is digitally recorded and mixed. And yet, the vinyl version has more
expansive and vivid soundstage than the CD version.
--
You are experiencing crosstalk. The left and right channels are not as well separated from each other, due to the nature of the reproduction medium. In signal processing, this is normally not considered a good thing.

BL
 
Since some folk have been technical about the difference between LP and CD sound, let's look at it a bit more closely.

Study an analogue reproduced waveform and a digitally reproduced waveform and you immediately see why LPs are often preferred. Natural sound follows an analogue waveform with rounded transient edges. This is what you get off an LP i.e. LP sourced sound is close to the original waveform.

Digital sampling produces sharp edged transients. I go with one of the previous correspondents who maintains that current sampling frequencies are inadequate to capture the sound in a way that is good on the ears.

Equally, the rest of the reproducing chain i.e. amps, cables and speakers all have an impact and every experienced listener knows that there is an interaction between these components.

However, just as some LP players and systems are better than others, so it is with CD players. The problem for most folk is that the best in either category costs an arm and a leg plus other anatomical parts whilst e.g. $200 CD players are usually better reproducers than $200 record players. The end result as to what most people listen to is usually dictated by economics, just as what most of us buy in cameras is dictated by personal disposable income, not the absolute best there is.

--
jamesza
 
However, just as some LP players and systems are better than others,
so it is with CD players. The problem for most folk is that the best
in either category costs an arm and a leg plus other anatomical parts
whilst e.g. $200 CD players are usually better reproducers than $200
record players. The end result as to what most people listen to is
usually dictated by economics, just as what most of us buy in cameras
is dictated by personal disposable income, not the absolute best
there is.
True; at other price points, the LP might be better value than the CD or vice versa. There is no reason why the two technologies would ever be 100% neatly and definitively comparable. In practice, a given person makes an individual purchase decision. If you go to the "stupid" stratospheric pricepoints, in an attempt to find each one's absolute limits, it all gets highly arguable anyway.

RP
 

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