Lumix TZ5 Flash Problem

I'm sorry...but unless I simply got a bad camera, the flash performance of the TZ5 is horrible. I bought it just before taking a week trip where I needed to take many indoor night shots (in lighted rooms) of people (read convention). Was in the auto mode, flash was firing just fine, but very little in all the indoor evening pics was illuminated. You could easily see faces, but all the background and things around them were very dark, when all these things should have been well within the range of the flash.

Other than this...I think it's a wonderful camera and I'm even wondering if I got a bad one? I already ate a 15% restocking fee when I returned it, so would hate to do that again.

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LarryMcJ

Larry McJunkin said:

I'm sorry...but unless I simply got a bad camera, the flash
performance of the TZ5 is horrible. I bought it just before taking a
week trip where I needed to take many indoor night shots (in lighted
rooms) of people (read convention). Was in the auto mode, flash was
firing just fine, but very little in all the indoor evening pics was
illuminated. You could easily see faces, but all the background and
things around them were very dark, when all these things should have
been well within the range of the flash.

Other than this...I think it's a wonderful camera and I'm even
wondering if I got a bad one? I already ate a 15% restocking fee
when I returned it, so would hate to do that again.

Click to expand...

Larry,

To date, TZ5 owners have posted over 600,000 photos on Flickr, so I would have expected any such failing to have become pretty evident by now!

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/panasonic/

However there are lots of things that could have affect your results, so why not open a free account there, or at a similar hosting site, and post a sample or two so we can see exactly what you mean?

Do upload the fullsize image if the account will let you and, whatever happens, definitely not a "Save for Web" version as all the useful information gets stripped off those!

Regards,
Peter

(PS At the moment I'm betting about evenly on the chances of a duff camera or someone's finger blocking some of the flash output!)

--
Peter - on the green island of Ischia
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/recisch

Larry McJunkin said:

You could easily see faces, but all the background and
things around them were very dark, when all these things should have
been well within the range of the flash.

Click to expand...

Larry McJunkin said:

LarryMcJ

Click to expand...

Sounds like "The Inverse Square Law".

It's physics, not the camera, very likely.

-Erik
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http://www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ 'ohlsonmh'+yahoo gets me

I know for sure my finger wasn't covering anything...I made sure of that. Here are some of the poor indoor (well lighted room) shots (full size) on Flikr....maybe someone can ascertain what the problem was. I was on full AUTO for most of these, along with AUTO FLASH.

I'll go re-purchase the TZ5 if someone can convince me this was either my problem or that of a faulty camera, or wrong settings. I don't see how it could be the latter if everything was on AUTO and I didn't have any flash compensations set.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30995962@N03/

Larry

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The 1st piccy, the flash is firing at the right time, as you can see the reflection on the door at the rear of the piccy....the flash is missing the subjects.

In the remaining piccies you are at a similar elevation to the 1st piccy, i.e looking down, I think this is the main reason you experiencing probles.

When you in a fairly dark room with flash, you need to understand what you are asking the flash to do. Just because the background is well within the camera's "range" does not mean that the TZ5 will attempt to fire its flash at full power. First and foremost, the camera will attempt to balance its exposure to give you the proper exposure on the foreground faces, probably leaving the background rather dark. If the flash fired with more power, all other settings being the same, you would see more of the background at the expense of your foreground subjects being overexposed.

If you have fair ambient background lighting, make sure that you have enabled Intelligent Exposure in the Quick Menu. This is not the same thing as turning the Function wheel to the iA (Intelligent Auto exposure) mode. I would shoot in the "Manual" mode and make sure that Intelligent Exposure is on. This will give you a better balance between ambient light and the flash - something Nikon calls "Balanced iTTL" on their Speedlights.

If your background is quite dark, this calls for more "desperate" measure. Using your flash settings on the right cursor, set your flash to Slow Sync. This is also good for nighttime photos where your subject is in the foreground and a lit building, ferris wheel etc is in the background. Here, the TZ5 will attempt to let in a lot of light by using the largest aperture that in can and choosing a slow shutter speed. Note that depending on how dark your room is that slow shutter speed may call for very steady hands or the use of a tripod or monopod.

The TZ5 is a great camera. I have it as well as the LX3 and I like them both a lot. Good luck, and I hope I have helped. (BTW, it is simply possible that you have a defective camera, but let's hope these simple things help fix the problem.)

--

There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.

Sorry, but I just can't buy that after 40 years of photography. If you look at the last picture (or the others for that matter), there isn't enough flash power to illuminate a 10' long table with a few people around it. It doesn't matter that I was standing up...it's either a defective camera or some setting was on, but don't see how that could be since I was in full AUTO for the program as well as the flash and I had never changed any of the default flash compensation settings.

It's a great little camera, but I think rather than re-buying it and chancing similar problems I'll opt for the Sony H10 or H50. Thanks.

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Larry

Many thanks for your comments. I do recall that I had turned ON Intelligent Exposure in the Quick Menu. It was probably some combination of all things mentioned, or perhaps even a defective camera...which seems unlikely.

My wife took some pics in a similar environment with a Sony T100 (way less of a camera than the TZ5) and they turned out absolutely perfect.

I think I need to get something a little more capable like the LZ28 or the Sony H50. Unfortunately, BestBuy doesn't carry the LZ28 and I have a large gift certificate to burn there, so I'll likely be stuck with the Sony H50.

Thanks again for your valued comments.

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Larry

The flash likely exposed for the closer subjects that were focused on. That would make the people in back dark. If you focused on the people in the back then the closer people would be over exposed. To me that is normal for any flash when shooting at and angle. I'm not a flash expert, but that has been my experience.

Might your wife's camera perhaps have been set to use whatever ISO proved necessary to get a correct exposure? Despite the low lighting, only one of yours got as high as even ISO400 !

You've clearly had a pretty thorough try with the various settings, and it hardly seems fair that you got so many rejects. While I can't check the details shown on Flickr in PhotoME as either Flickr or your resizing process has stripped out the relevant data, here's what seems to have happened to each:

164 - Portrait mode with ISO100 - 1/30th second. The flash power at that ISO setting is fairly weak - at full wideangle the Manual quotes a range of only 0.6-1.6 metres; any further and all is darkness..

169 - Auto exposure, ISO 250, 1/8th second shutter plus flash. Here I'd say either you, the strap or something else has blocked off the righthand side of the flash - the only illumination on that side seems to be the tungsten room lighting, from that long exposure. The details include "Gain Control: High gain up" - but I think that may be Flickr's interpretation as I've not seen it on any of mine?

Shame, otherwise - with the nearby background to hold more of the light in - this would otherwise probably have been the best of the lot

170 - Auto exposure at ISO 100 and the flash is pretty much dead-on, for the distance at which you've focused anyway! Again, falloff effects for the guy at the end (as with 173).

Strangely I can't get my camera to use this sort of shutterspeed (1/8th) unless I set the flash to slow sync/Redeye (otherwise it won't go below 1/30th) - could you have tried that?

Even that wasn't enough to properly expose the background - you may still have had the "Min Shtr Speed" at its default setting of 1/8th, so it couldn't go further?

171 - Portrait mode with ISO 400. The flash didn't fire (presumablty you turned it off?), so the camera selected the longest exposure it could, 1/8th second, but again not long enough - see 170 above

173 - taken at about 32mm, flash fired, 1/30th second.

A good example of the flash illumination falling off with distance. Although the flash has lit the main subjects (the backs of the first two people) perfectly, since the people sitting opposite are almost twice as far away, they get only 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 of that illumination and are much darker, with the effect being even more marked in the background! (Note the fairly even distribution of the flash from right to left unlike in 169)

Any of that sound possible?

Peter

--
Peter - on the green island of Ischia
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/recisch

If you want the background to show up better, you need to shoot in slow shutter sync, you could also increase your ISO setting and minimum shutter speed. Your subject matter needs to hold still and you should have your camera on a tripod. I myself find if there is enough ambient light, I prefer shooting without the flash and increasing my ISO.

If you shoot in straight auto mode and use the flash, the background will come out dark. You should try using different settings with and without the flash indoors. The TZ5 is an amazing camera and gives you a lot of control for a P&S camera.

Here's a website about the TZ5 which will show you all the features to help you learn to control the camera so it will do what you want. Good luck.

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/compact/tz5_tz4_tz15_tz11/index.html

happyme said:

If you want the background to show up better, you need to shoot in
slow shutter sync, you could also increase your ISO setting and
minimum shutter speed. Your subject matter needs to hold still and
you should have your camera on a tripod. I myself find if there is
enough ambient light, I prefer shooting without the flash and
increasing my ISO.

Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct, and since none of these pics would have ever been printed, using a higher ISO would have probably fixed the lighting issues and the image quality they would have suffered would never have been noticed.

happyme said:

If you shoot in straight auto mode and use the flash, the background
will come out dark. You should try using different settings with and
without the flash indoors. The TZ5 is an amazing camera and gives you
a lot of control for a P&S camera.

Click to expand...

I'll remember this advice for using my new Sony DSC-H50, but I tried a similarly lighted setting in my house last night with it lit up the entire room...reaching about 25 feet from the camera with full illumination...no adjustments necessary. Perhaps it has some different compensation than the TZ5.

Thanks again for all the comments in this thread...it's always nice to see more experienced user willing to take the time to help others.

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Larry

I'm happy you got the H50, one of my friends have that camera and loves it. I almost bought the H50, but I wanted something smaller

I have the Sony V1, W1, and the H1. They were all good cameras for their time and I think the H50 is a good choice.

For myself, I wanted something smaller with a large zoom. I'm finding the TZ5 to be an amazing camera and for myself I will stick to this one for now. Again, good luck with your new camera.

I don't blame you for wanting a smaller footprint...the H50 is nice, but it's certainly not something you can throw into your pocket or briefcase. That said, I tried it yesterday in the same type of dimly lit restaurant environment that caused me the bad results with the TZ5...the pics all came out as if the room was in full daylight. I guess I just need something that will take all the guesswork and compensation adjustments out of the equation for me...despite it's large size.

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Larry

You can't really fairly compare the H50 with the TZ5 in the first place. Not the same category of camera at all...

As someone said, crank up the ISO, say to 400, and see what happens. None of these small cameras have powerful, long-range flashes. And that does look to be the limit you are seeing, not a TZ5 malfunction.

You can add a slave flash to get more illumination. I've used a Canon HF-DC1 with success (though not tried it with my TZ5). It's a small unit that attaches via a supplied bar to the tripod socket. You can see it here

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-HF-DC1-Powershot-Digital-Cameras/dp/B0007MGFI2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223037420&sr=8-1

and read some reviews. Amazon and others sell other slave flashes.

--
Phil .. Canon EOS 40D, 20D, G9, SD700IS; Panasonic LX3, TZ5; Fuji F31fd.
http://www.pbase.com/phil_wheeler
http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil_ox/

There is NO flash problem. I looked over the TZ5 camera overview of functions on its website: panasonic.net/avc/lumix/compact/tz5_tz4_tz15_tz11/ia.html

puttin's response above is the correct answer to the original posters question:

puttin said:

The flash likely exposed for the closer subjects that were focused
on. That would make the people in back dark. If you focused on the
people in the back then the closer people would be over exposed. To
me that is normal for any flash when shooting at and angle. I'm not a
flash expert, but that has been my experience.

Click to expand...

The problem is with the photographers choice of settings in the original post. The flash can cause the background to appear darkened. Here is a similar example to what happened with the photographer. The second photo shows a well lit background when you use the proper settings.:No flash was required in a well lit room. The photographer in the original post used flash each and every time......