Flash - TTL Operation Not Possible with D1-series or D100!!

http://www.nikon-image.com/eng/speedlights/ttl_system.pdf

I am still learning about photography and was curious when I say this file. I am planning to buy a SB-80DX for my N80. I noticed something, which not knowing much about flash photography, I just may not know about this. If you look in the .pdf file above it states something under the SA-4 and SC-18/SC-19 description on the bottom second page.

It states the following:
(TTL operation is not possible with D1 series or D100).

What does this mean? Can any of these accessories in this .pdf document work with these cameras? Will this TTL System work on these cameras? If not, what would you use to setup a similar system? Or, if you can not setup a system like this, why?

Thanks!!

Re-read it, it says at the bottom that "multiple TTL flash is not possible" with the D1, D100. Single flash TTL is a go!

daytontp said:

http://www.nikon-image.com/eng/speedlights/ttl_system.pdf

I am still learning about photography and was curious when I say
this file. I am planning to buy a SB-80DX for my N80. I noticed
something, which not knowing much about flash photography, I just
may not know about this. If you look in the .pdf file above it
states something under the SA-4 and SC-18/SC-19 description on the
bottom second page.

It states the following:
(TTL operation is not possible with D1 series or D100).

What does this mean? Can any of these accessories in this .pdf
document work with these cameras? Will this TTL System work on
these cameras? If not, what would you use to setup a similar
system? Or, if you can not setup a system like this, why?

Thanks!!

Click to expand...

I apologize. It also says the following on the bottom of the first page.

Note: D1-series and D100 digital SLR cameras cannot be used for multiple flash shooting in D-TTL auto flash mode. Multiple flash is possible with these cameras only in manual or Non-TTL auto flash mode.

Whay can you use Multiple Flash TTL with 35 Film SLR cameras, but not with the DSLR cameras?

daytontp said:

Whay can you use Multiple Flash TTL with 35 Film SLR cameras, but
not with the DSLR cameras?

Click to expand...

The Nikon digital SLRs require monitor preflashes to help to compute the exposure for D-TTL. Because the preflashes would trigger the remote units, they would go off before the main unit. So, when you are using multiple flash, the preflashes must be turned off and that means no D-TTL. However, the modes you are left with still work well.

The main reason that digital works differently from film in this regard is that the CCD does not reflect light as film does. This requires the "monitor preflashes" as Nikon calls them. Your eye can't detect them, but they are there in D-TTL with Nikon gear.

Hope that helps a little.

--
Jim M.

I'd call Nikon, I know there is a limit to the number of TTL flash units you can string together. I think I heard somewhere what the reason was, but it escapes me at the moment. If it is trigger voltage or something like that, the early/lower end digitals may not have enough. If they gave us everything, they couldn't sell D1x's!

daytontp said:

I apologize. It also says the following on the bottom of the first
page.

Note: D1-series and D100 digital SLR cameras cannot be used for
multiple flash shooting in D-TTL auto flash mode. Multiple flash is
possible with these cameras only in manual or Non-TTL auto flash
mode.

Whay can you use Multiple Flash TTL with 35 Film SLR cameras, but
not with the DSLR cameras?

Click to expand...

Here is what it says in the SB-80-DX manual under multiple flash:

"Because the monitor preflashes are fired at all times in the D-TTL flash mode, Digital SLR cameras cannot be used for multiple flash shooting in this mode.

With Digital SLR cameras, only manual multiple flash operation is possible in multiple flash shooting using cords. In wireless multiple flash shooting, set the master flash unit's flash mode to AA or non-TTL auto flash"

Bascially the D-TTL (for digital) system gets thrown off if you try to use D-TTL with multiple flash. By the way, the monitor preflashes are used to help determine correct flash exposure.

daytontp said:

I apologize. It also says the following on the bottom of the first
page.

Note: D1-series and D100 digital SLR cameras cannot be used for
multiple flash shooting in D-TTL auto flash mode. Multiple flash is
possible with these cameras only in manual or Non-TTL auto flash
mode.

Whay can you use Multiple Flash TTL with 35 Film SLR cameras, but
not with the DSLR cameras?

Click to expand...

I am starting to understand this. But, I still have a question. I am assuming that when you say that the monitor preflash would set off the other flashes. But, is this for when they are wired to the camera body, or when they are setup wirelessly, or both? I would guess that if they were wired to the body, they would know it was a monitor preflash and would not fire. Or, is the wiring setup only recognized by the camera body as 1 flash? Which I just thought of while typing this. Which if this is the case, they I see how this is a problem.

I do not even own 1 flash yet. And, my first will be a SB-80DX. And, I do not see myself buying 2 of them at once. So, this will not be that big an issue to me at first. I would also guess that as I use the flash more, I will realize how all this works and will understand it better. I appreciate all y'alls input.

J. M. said:

J. M. said:

Whay can you use Multiple Flash TTL with 35 Film SLR cameras, but
not with the DSLR cameras?

Click to expand...

The Nikon digital SLRs require monitor preflashes to help to
compute the exposure for D-TTL.

Click to expand...

Yes, this is true. In D-TTL modes, the digital SLRs ALWAYS use a preflash to perform exposure calculations.

J. M. said:

Because the preflashes would
trigger the remote units, they would go off before the main unit.

Click to expand...

Well, that's true of the way Nikon's current equipment works, but it's not an absolute. Many of us are wondering why Nikon abandoned the "delay" switch they had with the SB-26, which worked just fine in ignoring the preflash.

J. M. said:

So, when you are using multiple flash, the preflashes must be
turned off and that means no D-TTL.

Click to expand...

Well, you're forgetting the cabled multiple flash portion of his question. The reason why cabled multiple flash doesn't work is that multiple preflash would simply confuse the camera, and if all the added wired units didn't preflash, there would be no way to consider their power in the final exposure calculations. Again, it doesn't have to be this way; it's merely the way Nikon designed their equipment.

J. M. said:

However, the modes you are left
with still work well.

Click to expand...

Actually, that depends. Remember, the user was asking about multiple flash. On the wireless systems, that means you have to do one of three things:
1. Set the on-camera flash to Auto Aperture and the remotes to Auto wireless.
2. Set the on-camera flash to Auto Aperture and the remotes to Manual.
3. Set the on-camera flash to Manual and the remotes to Manual.

Only in the first case is it relatively automatic, but you end up with some restrictions you didn't have in TTL on the film cameras.

J. M. said:

The main reason that digital works differently from film in this
regard is that the CCD does not reflect light as film does. This
requires the "monitor preflashes" as Nikon calls them.

Click to expand...

Well, so do the film cameras in balanced fill-flash modes. The ONLY differences between digital and film are:

• You can turn off the preflash by selecting Standard TTL on film bodies.
• The film bodies also do a second measurement (or first in Standard TTL) during the exposure by reading the reflections off the film. (Note the Fuji S2 Pro works the same as the film bodies, reading reflections off the CCD.)

J. M. said:

Your eye
can't detect them, but they are there in D-TTL with Nikon gear.

Click to expand...

Well, sure they can. Put your camera in shutter priority mode, select Rear Sync, and select a shutter speed of 1 second or more. Did you see two flashes? The first, dimmer one was the preflash. The only reason you can't really see the preflash in normal conditions is that it is short and very close to the actual flash.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

Thanks Thom, I appreciate all that information.

--
Jim M.

Thanks, again. I always appreciate any information I can get.

I noticed that Canon has patents on the technology they use in their different TTL modes on there cameras. Is there a huge difference between what Canon can do with E-TTL, A-TTL, TTL & Manual, and what Nikon's systems can do?