Reading mode: Light Dark

Pentax to be boosted by 'rapid roll-out' of DSLRs, Hoya says

Go to last post
tweedle said:
It's interesting that Sony (with KM), Panasonic (with Oly) and
Samsung (with Pentax) entered the DSLR arena at about the same time.

Panasonic and Samsung seem to have already bailed out - heading for
hybrids instead.
Click to expand...
That's around the time CE companies realized he who controls the production of the image sensor comtrols the profit of digital camera market. And the semiconductor sensor business require crazy amount of initial investment no any camera-only manufacturer can afford.

It make no sense for the like of Samsung to jump into the pro market though. The pro market doesn't grow and is only big enough for a couple of brand/ecosystems to make money in it. At least it kind of make sense for Sony and Panasonic since they are also in the pro camcorder/film camera business.

Panasonic should have let Olympus die and march in and take controlling interest of the company. As it stand now the 4/3 alliance is very fragile and unstable. Hell maybe Panasonic should have brought Pentax.
 
jonny1976 said:
nikon sell tons of d300 and d80. they cos a lot of money when they
come out. the d80 was 1000 dollar. now the d90 will sell a lot at 900
dollar. the sony a700 at 1400 dollar was a fiasco.
Click to expand...
If you go by units sold, it probably wasn't a big hit, yes. But it might have helped sell A200/300/350s since buyers knew they had an upgrade option, should they decided they wanted something better later on.
jonny1976 said:
sony has sold trunk of a200 a 300. hese camera cos from 350 to 550
dollar.
Click to expand...
So what? I would think that you usually build up your user base from the bottom. All the people who bought the A200 - 350 will be potential buyers for the A700 successor. I see nothing wrong with that strategy, do you?
 
jonny1976 said:
ok let's consider an optimistic scenary: 11% market share. it's
clearly a good results for sony.
For me it's not a good results if u consider that sony released 5
models.
the sony a900 won't sell big numbers for sure,are they ready to put
out 5 models per year to keep these results every year?
Click to expand...
Seeing that their market rose largely due to the sale of three models of which two are very similar (A300 and A350), I really don't understand your point. Olympus and Pentax would be quite happy with Sony's result I guess.
 
...according Andy Westlake (of DPReview) in the G1 preview...you should have read the preview first before you make any comment about the EVF. It ls even better than FF OVF because you can magnify the subject 10x and preview realistic DOF during manual focusing which is very nice in macro photography.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/panasonicG1/page5.asp
whatever8 said:
exp1orer said:
...that alone...i'll take G1 over e420 any day...G1 has a large
tilting/flip LCD....and how can the e420 do more than the G1? with
that tilting/flip LCD at the back of G1...i'm pretty sure it can do
more than the e420.
Click to expand...
I hope it has a good EVF for your benefit. Since you have to manual
focus with majority of the 4/3 lenses.
Click to expand...
--



http://www.exp1orer.com
 
janneman02 said:
tweedle said:
janneman02 said:
In 1Q, Pentax posted sales of ¥36.5bn (¥40.8bn the year before)
and an operating loss of ¥0.04bn (¥1.2bn the year before).

... we estimate sales were 1) ¥16.2bn (-23% YoY) for the imaging
systems subsegment (digital cameras, etc.)
Click to expand...
Hoya plans to roll out new DSLRs 'rapidly' to lift the camera
division from further crumbling - a K1 and a K1000 coming up this
Photokina or next PMA?:
Click to expand...
we'll see
janneman02 said:
janneman02 said:
Digital camera prices have continued to fall. Hoya has seen a fall in
unit price and profitability, although it believes this is partly due to
a lack of appeal of some of its digital cameras. The company hopes to
boost profitability by rapidly rolling out well-appointed cameras that
are uniquely Pentax, but it expects 2Q earnings to be similar to 1Q
earnings.
Click to expand...
Hoya's optical lenses business (originally non-Pentax) saw a sharp
sales decline. The company now plans to develop and sell more SLR
lenses in the future as one mean amongst others to compensate for
this. How will they do that, we might all speculate ... could it be
lenses for Samsungs new EVIL? Third party lenses for other camera
brands? Limited lenses in non-PK mount?
Click to expand...
Maybe Pentax will go the third party way, making lenses not only in K
but also other mounts....
Click to expand...
I hope not

Wasn't there a thread in the Pentax SLR forum about irritating animated gifs? ;-)
janneman02 said:



janneman02 said:
The difference between genius and LBA is that genius has its
limits.
  • Janneman ( adaptation of the Kings quote from Albert Einstein)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
jonny1976 said:
if you sold 5 new model in the big supermarket, in the big chain of
distribution it's clear that you will end selling some numbers, with
seller pushing sony model.
If u sell a dslr at 300 dollar it's clear u'll end up selling it at
some level. But how much do u gain with a200? Who bought the carl
zeiss premium lenses and g lenses? the owner of a200 and a300?
this is the point. sony has reached 8 % globally overselling 5 model
in a year, and u know the effect of a new model is to boost
selling,and selling cheap model.
i 'm not saying they are not good but simply that the high end a700
has not sold compared for example to a k10d in the past.
i'm saying that if i come to sony forum i don't see a lot of zeiss or
g sample but sample from cheaper glass. if u come to pentax forum you
wil see that a lot of DA* has been sold. the pentax has done a 5/6%
with products that are not so cheap, and selling new lines of lenses
that are quality lens at a good price.

Maybe i'm wrong but i consider the a900 the key of sony ambiion in
dslr's world
Click to expand...
Then the reason, from your line of reasoning, for Sony's uptick in share is not due to an overabundance of models, but the spiffs Sony gives to salespeople to point buyers to their models. Even if Sony only had two models like Pentax does, as long as they give good commissions to salespeople, a number of them (not saying all of them) would give the Alphas extra props to buyers.

What Sony did with the A900 is to create an upgrade path for Alpha mount users, and even if it won't sell in huge numbers compared to the entry-level models (as is normal with top-of-the-line cameras for all brands), the perceived notion of an available upgrade path could sway quite a number of hobbyists and enthusiasts towards a brand (even if they never buy one ever). Even people over at the other forum (I'm a regular there) want an upgrade path, be they actual buyers of a future pro model or not.

I agree that top-of-the-line Pentax lenses are much more reasonably-priced than Sony's Zeiss range, though. It would be that much more of a waste should Hoya hold off on improving the Pentax range, because there's really good value in that brand.
 
whatever8 said:
That's around the time CE companies realized he who controls the
production of the image sensor comtrols the profit of digital camera
market. And the semiconductor sensor business require crazy amount
of initial investment no any camera-only manufacturer can afford.

It make no sense for the like of Samsung to jump into the pro market
though. The pro market doesn't grow and is only big enough for a
couple of brand/ecosystems to make money in it. At least it kind of
make sense for Sony and Panasonic since they are also in the pro
camcorder/film camera business.

Panasonic should have let Olympus die and march in and take
controlling interest of the company. As it stand now the 4/3
alliance is very fragile and unstable. Hell maybe Panasonic should
have brought Pentax.
Click to expand...
I don't know about the 4/3 alliance being fragile. I have much bigger doubts about Hoya and Samsung's partnership. At least with the mFT announcement, Olympus and Panasonic co-introduced it, with pledges that the new mount will take regular 4/3 lenses. Samsung's announcement held no such pledges.
 
VLampa said:
I don't know about the 4/3 alliance being fragile. I have much bigger
doubts about Hoya and Samsung's partnership. At least with the mFT
announcement, Olympus and Panasonic co-introduced it, with pledges
that the new mount will take regular 4/3 lenses. Samsung's
announcement held no such pledges.
Click to expand...
I agree with you but I was comparing to the Sony-Minolta buy out. I was not comparing to the K mount alliance since 1) the K mount camp is/was less ambitious 2) it was not really an alliance. So far Pentax is still leading the direction of body and lense R&D. It's like the old repackage Sears branded Pentax lens, you can't call it an "co-ownership."

With 4/3, it's a real alliance, with IMO resource management problem. And IMO the mistakes 4/3 made in the last few years were mostly due to the lack of the clear boss in the alliance. Both Olympus and Panasonic wanted to make the last call and this has hurted them.

For example, the monster 2.0 pro lenses. This is clearly not the direction Panasonic wanted to take for their small consumer electronic market; And the first bunch of 4/3 bodies were too big to take advantage of the smaller 4/3 sensor; And the Panasonic bodies were too expensive. We all know entry level DSLR bodies were mostly lose leader to get you to buy the lenses. However P didn't make any lense so they couldn't price the bodies lower. I bet this is the reason the G1 only support the Panasonic made lenses for AF so they can actually make money on the lenses!

BTW, Leica is already quitting the 4/3 alliance. The M4/3 non announcement of Leica is a clear indication of it. You are not going to see any new 4/3, M4/3 lens coming out with Leica's name on it.
 
Zag said:
philbarton said:
I think the new camera appears for the March 2009 show, when someone
might even notice it. Releasing a model now is like competing with
three "Batman" opening weekends.
Click to expand...
True, but if Pentax has the newer models ready or nearly ready, it
would make absolutely no sense to wait till March and waste six
months of sales, even if it meant cannibalizing sales of its own
K20D. There should better ways of making an impact announcement,
don't you agree?
Click to expand...
Agreed. Technology moves. And pretty fast too. No new model will be hidden under the carpet for six months.

A general business overhaul after the Hoya takeover and shortcomings in the capacity of Pentax' R&D staff are more likely explanations that Pentax is still an only two-body DSLR manufacturer.
 
tweedle said:
philbarton said:
My feeling is that Samsung announced the FF sensor because they
already had a prototype body, and the means to produce it. Back then
it was not so risky as it is now, with Nikon and Canon looking to
have major sales to their legacy bases who already have FF lenses.

There's more competition on the low end than anywhere else; and
Panasonic G1 put more pressure on it. Can you spell "pincer
movement"?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
-------------
tweedle said:
Basically agree.

Apparently Pentax have somthing cooking that is yet not quite ready
for release. We don't now excactly what it is or whether it may work
for Pentax in the end.

In the meantime, a low-low entry level DSLR is rumored, and I guess
Pentax would be able to turn out a simple, cheap DSLR with some
feature or the other that Canon 1000D, Niko D40 or Sony A200 might
miss.
Click to expand...
==========

This is all fair conjecture, and the reason that this type of forum exists. Frankly, I look at Ricehigh's blog expressly for the news links - I already know his opinions, and don't need a refresher. That said, he is picking up good stuff from the Japanese press. I realize that for ANY brand the fanboys cannot distinguish news from "opinion", and they are thereby wearing blinders insofar as some of the company news. The blog did not close Pentax plants - Hoya did.

A football game "pep squad" is not a good model for owning cameras, which involve a considerable investment, and the expectation that the maker will actually participate in the 4th quarter.

This link indicates zero announcements from Pentax thus far:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/EVENTS/PKNA08/PKNA08.HTML

Last time I looked, only Pentax Europe had a booth; not USA. Perhaps Hoya will do something.

The list of announcements is clearly working in Canon's favor to "swamp" Sony. Oddly, the two key links to micro 4/3rd's and the G1 ended up under "miscellaneous" - likely because they could not decide whether to put them under "Olympus" or "Panasonic", which have their own sections. So much for the value of co-marketing.
 
exp1orer said:
It ls even better than FF OVF because you can magnify the
subject 10x and preview realistic DOF during manual focusing which is
very nice in macro photography.
Click to expand...
And how good will it be for moving objects, I wonder? Any blur/delay effect?
 
philbarton said:
I realize that for ANY brand the fanboys cannot distinguish news from
"opinion", and they are thereby wearing blinders insofar as some of
the company news. The blog did not close Pentax plants - Hoya did.
Click to expand...
At the end of the day, brand loyalty is about trust and safety. It's about having a safe zone ... represented by the brand.

Unfortunately, it's more like a jungle out there ... brand manufacturers tend to eat or get eaten.

Many folks don't like to be reminded about that :)
 
tweedle said:
philbarton said:
Yutaka Nakagawa, president of Sony's digital imaging business group,
told reporters that the company "will target for at least 20-25
percent of the world digicam market, and even a higher share as far
as DSLRs are concerned, by making the most of its advantage," ie.,
its capability to make key devices such as CCDs, lenses and LCDs.
Click to expand...
I see no specific goal at all in terms of a specific time frame here.
No mention of Nikon either. Wasn't that what you initially claimed?

The official target is 10 per cent DSLR market share this year. It
will be interesting if Sony gets there, my guess is that they will
get pretty close.
Click to expand...
========

Perspective is needed. Sony made their announcement in 2006, thinking that they could make DSLR's in volume at around the same sell-price as the megazooms. After all, a camera is a camera, right? Doesn't that work for TV sets and stereo players? All commodities, right?

Their time frame was 2006 - and it's now nearly 2009. They've had a quite persistent 6 percent DSLR share; and with Canon holding over 80 percent, just WHERE does the other 14 percent come from?

In other links they declared that they intended to be #2 in DSLR's - so just who were they aiming at?

Use Google - Sony was not talking about 2009; they were talking about 2007 or 2008. Their statement at the end of para. 1 indicates that the stated target woulkd EXCEED, for DSLR's, their total shares of digital cameras of 20-25 percent. I am sure this all predated Howard Stringer's taking over and banging some heads together, but investments had been made, and there was no backtracking. They are still pursuing the agenda, seems like:

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=NewsDesk_Internal&article_num=020106-4

Wednesday, February 1 2006

"Now that Konica Minolta has transferred its photo-related assets (including R&D and manufacturing) to Sony, the electronics giant is ready to fight for a big piece of the DSLR pie. Yutaka Nakagawa, president of Sony's digital imaging group, says the company "will target for at least 20-25 percent of the world digicam maket, and even a higher share [of] DSLRs," according to PEN News Weekly.

Currently, Nikon and Canon dominate the DSLR market; together, the companies account for 90 percent of all DSLR sales. However, Sony is capable of making CCDs, LCDs and other components; now the company owns the rights to the Minolta mount and other technologies. These factors are enough to give Sony the ability to compete with the two DSLR giants.

At the same time, however, Photo Trade Express reports that Nikon plans on seeking a 40 percent share of the DSLR market; Makoto Kimura, head of Nikon's camera business, predicts 5 million DSLR sales this year."

(Another link)

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1207604859.html

April 7, 2008- IDC on 2007 Sales

Sony again placed third, with a share of 6 percent, unchanged from 2005. Sony continued to make inroads after bottoming out in 2005 and saw its total digital camera share maintained at 16 percent, on shipments of 20.1 million units. The big winner for 2007 was Samsung, which was able to move solidly into the top tier of the market, with stunning success in Western Europe, Asia Pacific and parts of ROW, most notably Eastern Europe.

Nikon also deserves special mention here. While the Coolpix compact business suffered setbacks, Nikon's dSLR efforts amounted in a serious challenge to Canon, resting on the back of compelling SKUs like the D40x and D300 and supplanting Canon at the number one position in their domestic market (Japan).
 
...please read the preview and the spec sheet before you ask such a stupid question...it's there in the spec sheet - EVF has 60fps. Delay? There's no delay in advance EVF like that of G1...i'd bet it can even be programmed to have a negative lag which means it can take/record still pictures and video before the shutter button is pressed to record still/movie shots
tweedle said:
exp1orer said:
It ls even better than FF OVF because you can magnify the
subject 10x and preview realistic DOF during manual focusing which is
very nice in macro photography.
Click to expand...
And how good will it be for moving objects, I wonder? Any blur/delay
effect?
Click to expand...
--



http://www.exp1orer.com
 
BJL said:
philbarton said:
The in-body IS adds to the weight ...
Click to expand...
It probably adds some weight to the body while in-lens IS adds some
weight to each lens. As far as I can tell, the weigh of body+lens is
about the same wherever the IS mechanism is put. But as soon as one
wants stabilization with more than one lens, in-body should reduce
total kit weight. (It is strange how often people ignore lens weigh
in these comparisons, as if many people carry around a body with no
lens.)

Note also that the E-520 with in-body IS weighs only 50g more than
the E-420 without it (and with a smaller battery too): 490g vs 440g.
So apparently IS need not add much body weight.
Click to expand...
===========

Not only some mass, but it takes up space - at the very time that people are looking for more compact cameras. Check the weight of K20D against the competition, for example.

Not true on total kit weight - the micro-motors on lenses are designed for each lens, and since you get the "fulcrum" effect due to the weight of long lenses, they design them to be as light as possible. Keeping IS out of the body lets the body be that much lighter, and lets it be designed smaller, simpler and cheaper as well. Since Sony had to completely redesign the internal system for FF, and beef it up considerably, clearly the APS-C-made unit was not so "universal" as was thought. It was a nice idea for those with lots of vintage lenses (i.e. my M42 SMC's) - but I know how to "become" a stable shooting platform, and have a monopod and tripod. I considered in-body IS a net limitation, because it blocked the use of in-lens IS, and you lost stabilization while viewing, the ability to pan, and other things native to in-lens IS.

As soon as someone tells me that "one size fits all", I tend to disbelieve them. I want each part of the system to be optimized.

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-249763.html
 
philbarton said:
tweedle said:
philbarton said:
Yutaka Nakagawa, president of Sony's digital imaging business group,
told reporters that the company "will target for at least 20-25
percent of the world digicam market, and even a higher share as far
as DSLRs are concerned, by making the most of its advantage," ie.,
its capability to make key devices such as CCDs, lenses and LCDs.
Click to expand...
I see no specific goal at all in terms of a specific time frame here.
No mention of Nikon either. Wasn't that what you initially claimed?

The official target is 10 per cent DSLR market share this year. It
will be interesting if Sony gets there, my guess is that they will
get pretty close.
Click to expand...
========

Perspective is needed. Sony made their announcement in 2006,
thinking that they could make DSLR's in volume at around the same
sell-price as the megazooms. After all, a camera is a camera, right?
Doesn't that work for TV sets and stereo players? All commodities,
right?

Their time frame was 2006 - and it's now nearly 2009. They've had a
quite persistent 6 percent DSLR share; and with Canon holding over 80
percent, just WHERE does the other 14 percent come from?

In other links they declared that they intended to be #2 in DSLR's -
so just who were they aiming at?

Use Google - Sony was not talking about 2009; they were talking about
2007 or 2008. Their statement at the end of para. 1 indicates that
the stated target woulkd EXCEED, for DSLR's, their total shares of
digital cameras of 20-25 percent. I am sure this all predated Howard
Stringer's taking over and banging some heads together, but
investments had been made, and there was no backtracking. They are
still pursuing the agenda, seems like:

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=NewsDesk_Internal&article_num=020106-4

Wednesday, February 1 2006

"Now that Konica Minolta has transferred its photo-related assets
(including R&D and manufacturing) to Sony, the electronics giant is
ready to fight for a big piece of the DSLR pie. Yutaka Nakagawa,
president of Sony's digital imaging group, says the company "will
target for at least 20-25 percent of the world digicam maket, and
even a higher share [of] DSLRs," according to PEN News Weekly.

Currently, Nikon and Canon dominate the DSLR market; together, the
companies account for 90 percent of all DSLR sales. However, Sony is
capable of making CCDs, LCDs and other components; now the company
owns the rights to the Minolta mount and other technologies. These
factors are enough to give Sony the ability to compete with the two
DSLR giants.

At the same time, however, Photo Trade Express reports that Nikon
plans on seeking a 40 percent share of the DSLR market; Makoto
Kimura, head of Nikon's camera business, predicts 5 million DSLR
sales this year."

(Another link)

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1207604859.html

April 7, 2008- IDC on 2007 Sales

Sony again placed third, with a share of 6 percent, unchanged from
2005. Sony continued to make inroads after bottoming out in 2005 and
saw its total digital camera share maintained at 16 percent, on
shipments of 20.1 million units. The big winner for 2007 was Samsung,
which was able to move solidly into the top tier of the market, with
stunning success in Western Europe, Asia Pacific and parts of ROW,
most notably Eastern Europe.

Nikon also deserves special mention here. While the Coolpix compact
business suffered setbacks, Nikon's dSLR efforts amounted in a
serious challenge to Canon, resting on the back of compelling SKUs
like the D40x and D300 and supplanting Canon at the number one
position in their domestic market (Japan).
Click to expand...
One thing is marketing babble (and there's a lot of it), another thing is planning, investing and working for realistic, strategic goals.

A 10 per cent global DSLR market share seems to be Sony's business goal this year. No easy task under current competition. We will se if they get there.
 
tweedle said:
philbarton said:
I realize that for ANY brand the fanboys cannot distinguish news from
"opinion", and they are thereby wearing blinders insofar as some of
the company news. The blog did not close Pentax plants - Hoya did.
Click to expand...
At the end of the day, brand loyalty is about trust and safety. It's
about having a safe zone ... represented by the brand.

Unfortunately, it's more like a jungle out there ... brand
manufacturers tend to eat or get eaten.

Many folks don't like to be reminded about that :)
Click to expand...
=========

Brand loyalty is a 2-way street - the brand owner owes the legacy adherent progress, and keeping up with technology. It's in the maker's interest to stay current; but it costs money in today's market, and the competition and new-model cycle is fierce.

The buyer today is making a major commitment, and a company that takes them for granted does not deserve their support.

Mechanical consumer cameras were a lot more alike then, and components could be interchanged and sourced from other places. A company like Yashica could put several different focusing screens in the same model, coming from different vendors.

Here's a very interesting new WSJ piece on Leica - note the last couple of paragraphs:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122152103387739231.html
 
The story of Pentax at digital age is very much a case of Mfr failing to forward thinking in a sense.

Back in film days, Pentax, among the big 5 is the only one who actually engaged in both Medium and small format. Thus very well seperate the 2 line of product between the top end users and the hobbyist. While its system is not as diverse as the like of Canon and Nikon. By providing a decent if limited lineup it's able to maintain a viable market share

Come digital age, the equal footing all had ( None of the company producte Film, so everyone are off to the same kind of recording media ) no longer exist. The meaning of a full lineup not only now incluse lens, flash, but also the need for the body, the firmware ( and all its upkeep ), the software and then some.

Pentax had been late to the game and while able to field a stream of product. In the end, it fail to field a lineup and system in any complete sense. And the coming of the FF is one more hurdle that might prove one too many. Customer had no reason to wait for Pentax to catach up. Business as business goes, Pentax just need to provide the incentive for customer to buy into the system and stay with it, and for now its simply onlya promise rather than any real entity to be.

Back in 1991, when I got my Z-1, its one of the top most advanced body, and with many 1st grade lens to had. Then come around 1997 and my MZ-3 still compete well with film but the lens lineup start to challenge the users. And now I simply cannot see how I can place my confidence in Pentax delivering the solution that I might seek, namely a product lineup that include both FF and reduced sized sensors, with product from the semi-Pro ( aka Nikon D700 ) down to consumer entry ( say Canon 1000F / Sony D200 ).

And not to mention Pentax failed delivery of its promised 645-D. I can forget them for the then too ambitious FF K1D, but the 645 D just leave users all stranded ..

--
  • Franka -
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top