Pentax to be boosted by 'rapid roll-out' of DSLRs, Hoya says

His last post here was a report about an analyst who said basically, most cam brands might die.

He likes to troll and feels great from the reactions.

Well, sometimes I work for the largest car manufacturer of the world - no one knows if the largest car manufacturer will survive next year - so much about this "only the brands with the most market share survive blabla".

philbarton said:

philbarton said:

philbarton said:

Ridiculous.

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(When was Hoya pre-Pentax in the camera body business?)

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Why are you tying 'Ridiculous' with that single affirmation? Ridiculous it your post as a whole.

philbarton said:

================

philbarton said:

We know Pentax will launch new products at Photokina,

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(Find a new product announcement, aside from the Optio. They may
show a cutaway or the Samsung FF sensor; assuming Samsung does not
decide to show that in their own booth, instead. What is this;
"stealth Photokina"?

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FYI, Photokina will start on 23 September. Until then, Pentax still have time to announce few new products and yes, I know they'll do that.

philbarton said:

==========

I'm also sure

philbarton said:

we'll see a lot of "Pentax is doomed! They still don't have and like the competition does!" threads. We also know Pentax will
launch new products next year, and the next after that and so on,
'till the end of the Universe
I'm not sure why this hatred on poor little Pentax, but they won't
"die"; and I don't have any reason to believe that Hoya is
desperately trying to sell the Imaging Systems division, to bury it,
or to do anything else than make it work.

Silence? It's just that today is 17th September, wait few more days.

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(The usual fanboy stuff. I've owned Pentax for over 45 years. It's
no longer the "Pentax" we knew. Hoya is saddled with low sales and
excess inventory, and is predicting more of the same. They declared
earlier that corporate would add no funds; and the Japanese economy
is headed towards recession. They are closing plants, trying to cut
costs.

Any corporation launches a product in order to make money on it. The
Pentax line was an inheritance that came with the medical lines that
MAKE money; and there may yet be some more goodies in the lab.
Showing it, and finding channels to carry it, and marketing it, are
what cost money. You should be angry at what Pentax has done to
itself; not my noticing it. If all this poster sturm und drang
turned into revenue, Pentax would be a lot better off.)

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Of course, if anything else fails throw the word "fanboy". It's a custom here, on dpreview, that everyone who refuse to bash Pentax will be called like that.

If I read your post I almost start to worry; but guess what, I know better! (using only freely available information, I must say)

Yes, Hoya closed some plants, but what plants? Nothing essential was touched, those are just attempts to increase profitability and completely unrelated to the DSLR business. But you fail to notice that, why?

Btw, my 'fanboy' guess is that products (cameras) that will allow Pentax to move forward will come only in 2009. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Alex Sarbu

tweedle said:

For more information on Pentax developments prepared for Photokina,
feel free to have a look at this ad:

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when I went to the link below, this is what I saw .....

tweedle said:

http://www.digitalkamera.de/

The banner seems to show 3 upcoming DSLRs (2 for immediate relase,
one to be announced for later release?), 2 compacts and 2 new lenses.
Of course, your interpretation of this ad may be different.

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....



So, yes, I do believe my interpetation of the ad is slightly different ;D

tweedle said:

Don't hesitate to ask again

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most definitely but, probably, from a more reliable (and slightly less
cynical than myself) source

Cheers,

jack

--
MY BLOG.... http://www.nakedmanonawire.blogspot.com

It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

tweedle,

what I extract from your long reply is that the report you use as the basis for your post makes absolutely no reference to forthcoming Pentax DSLR products (only "cameras") and yet you make the claim about new DSLR's in both the subject line and the text.

I find that highly misleading. I suppose you will again defend yourself by saying that if someone reads the post carefully they will detect the discrepancy between your subject line claim and what the report actually says. I suggest instead that you keep your subject lines and claims in line with the facts offered to support them.

BJL said:

tweedle,

what I extract from your long reply is that the report you use as the
basis for your post makes absolutely no reference to forthcoming
Pentax DSLR products (only "cameras") and yet you make the claim
about new DSLR's in both the subject line and the text.

I find that highly misleading. I suppose you will again defend
yourself by saying that if someone reads the post carefully they will
detect the discrepancy between your subject line claim and what the
report actually says. I suggest instead that you keep your subject
lines and claims in line with the facts offered to support them.

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A report has been brought to your attention, the quotes are real. You may like them or agree with them or you may not. Feel free.

My summaries or intepretations have been shared as well. You may like them or agree with them or you may not. Feel free.

However, no misleading was ever intended.

nt
--
Riley

in my home, the smoke alarm is the dinner bell (only if you cook RAW food)

Jack Simpson said:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=21835119

Finally, someone who with a more cynical outlook than me

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Actually, I think Tweedle was pretty spot on there.
The Sony Cybershot brand pretty much became stagnant after the H2 and H5.

Sony still makes cheap (or not-so-cheap) p&s cameras but they lack the quality and innovation of the F828, V3, R1, H2 and H5.

Sony Cybershot is dead... long live Sony Alpha ;o)

--
Stuart / the Two Truths
http://twotruths.net/

Martin Frost said:

His last post here was a report about an analyst who said basically,
most cam brands might die.

He likes to troll and feels great from the reactions.

Well, sometimes I work for the largest car manufacturer of the world

• no one knows if the largest car manufacturer will survive next

year - so much about this "only the brands with the most market share
survive blabla".

Click to expand...

Shock horror; he likes to ask difficult questions!
Burn the heretic!!!

--
Stuart / the Two Truths
http://twotruths.net/

Despide I currently use Oly DSLRs, I admit, Sony is stronger than ever
( I also had Sony's ).

Registering and stepping into a forum saying "not impressed by this camera brand" is trolling. sorry.
--
cheers
Martin F..

tweedle said:

BJL said:

I find that highly misleading.

Click to expand...

A report has been brought to your attention, the quotes are real. You
may like them or agree with them or you may not. Feel free.

My summaries or intepretations have been shared as well. You may like
them or agree with them or you may not. Feel free.

However, no misleading was ever intended.

Click to expand...

A news report of today's The Nikkei seems to add a little more information to the subject of DSLRs.

• Hoya intends to grow DSLR volumes by 49 per cent
• Compact volumes expected to decline by 22 per cent

A few other news as well (snips only):

tweedle said:

TOKYO (Nikkei)--Hoya Corp. (7741) will shift the remnants of its Japanese digital camera production abroad within the current fiscal year to improve its cost competitiveness.

The company inherited its last domestic production facility, a plant in Mashiko, Tochigi Prefecture, through its absorption of Pentax Corp. in March. By next March, Hoya will relocate the plant's lens operations to Vietnam and its production of midsize and large cameras to the Philippines.

Hoya aims to sell 520,000 SLR cameras in the year through March 2009, an increase of 49% from fiscal 2007. Sales of pocket-size models are projected to fall 22% to 2 million units. The company has not issued a profit forecast for its camera division, but it said the business swung to an operating loss in the April-June quarter.
(The Nikkei Thursday morning edition)
-0- Sep/17/2008 18:30 GMT

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(For the full article, you will have to subscribe)

and yet here, there isnt a single mention of that

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=TYO%3A7741
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=PINK%3AHOCPF
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=PINK%3AHOCPY

how strange
cough....
--
Riley

in my home, the smoke alarm is the dinner bell (only if you cook RAW food)

Martin Frost said:

Despide I currently use Oly DSLRs, I admit, Sony is stronger than ever
( I also had Sony's ).
Registering and stepping into a forum saying "not impressed by this
camera brand" is trolling. sorry.

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This seems to get a little personal, and I wonder if all this motive searching and personal attacking of my humble person is really relevant to anyone?

However, a few corrections FYI only:

• I joined DPR long before the old post brought to your attention earlier in this thread. At one time, for some reason, the password was no longer valid, and I had to register under a new name.
• Around the time of the post referred to, Sony made a radical change in strategy for the compact segment, focusing much more tightly on lower sales price and higher earnings. This shift was no doubt necessary because of stiffer competition, and I guess Sony knew what they were doing, since they have kept up a very high market penetration ever since.

At the time, however, not much was revealed about this change in strategy, this is why a few questions marks was raised in the post. What is Sony doing? Are they retracting from compacts? Could there be other explanations. Time has shown that such explanations were there.

• Unfortunately the shift in strategy meant being more cost effective, sometimes implying use of less expensive components. I would think that it of because this that in compacts, Sony seems to have slipped from the ball park of excellent to the ball park of average in most reviews. Sometimes directly adressed to the use of somewhat mediocre components such as LCDs in some of these compacts.

The above is my humble view and opinion only. Feel free to carry on flaming

Rriley said:

and yet here, there isnt a single mention of that

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=TYO%3A7741
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=PINK%3AHOCPF
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=PINK%3AHOCPY

how strange
cough....

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You will have to subscribe to the Nikkei to read all their articles. Googling is not enough, sorry.

Does that increase include the 645D...
--
360 minutes from the prime meridian. (-5375min, 3.55sec) 1093' above sea level.

'The exposure meter is calibrated to some clearly defined standards and the user needs to adjust his working method and his subject matter to these values. It does not help to suppose all kinds of assumptions that do not exist.'
Erwin Puts

In the Al Pacino movie "Carlito's Way" there were several great lines, but this one comes to mind.

"Here comes the pain"

This is Canon, sticking it to everyone - and you can see the power of large market share enabling good pricing.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkII/

21 megapixel CMOS sensor
Full frame, and 3.9 frames per second continuous shooting
Live view with three mode auto-focus (including face detection)

Movie recording in live view (1080p H.264 up to 12 minutes, VGA H.264 up to 24 mins per clip)

Two thousand seven hundred bucks

Now, tell me about the invisible new Pentax model(s) ...

Martin Frost said:

His last post here was a report about an analyst who said basically,
most cam brands might die.

He likes to troll and feels great from the reactions.

Well, sometimes I work for the largest car manufacturer of the world

• no one knows if the largest car manufacturer will survive next

year - so much about this "only the brands with the most market share
survive blabla".

Click to expand...

===========

An American car company? How about "rapidly declining market share"? How about "corporate overhead" and "legacy costs"?

When you have two brands with over 80 percent, and 6 percent for Sony, that does not leave much to nibble on at the buffet.

You're now seeing major brokerages partner up with banks, because the game has changed, and radically. Why? Size, and financial resources.

The U.S. government just laid out $85 billion for AIG. Why? The full faith and credit of a U.S. backed security, to remove the threat of a meltdown.

With cameras you have technology that the smaller makers cannot invent nor match, and won't be able to buy. The new Canon is nearly a camcorder. Ask new parents which camera they'd rather have.

The analyst was right. Count the number of U.S. car companies that merged into GM; and now count the number of currently viable domestic makes. There are a lot of legacy-mount people in denial, but I refuse to be one of them. When you wave a banner, you have to make sure that it's not blocking your view.

tweedle said:

• Hoya intends to grow DSLR volumes by 49 per cent
• Compact volumes expected to decline by 22 per cent

A few other news as well (snips only):

tweedle said:

TOKYO (Nikkei)--Hoya Corp. (7741) will shift the remnants of its Japanese digital camera production abroad within the current fiscal year to improve its cost competitiveness.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

tweedle said:

tweedle said:

The company inherited its last domestic production facility, a plant in Mashiko, Tochigi Prefecture, through its absorption of Pentax Corp. in March. By next March, Hoya will relocate the plant's lens operations to Vietnam and its production of midsize and large cameras to the Philippines.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

tweedle said:

tweedle said:

Hoya aims to sell 520,000 SLR cameras in the year through March 2009, an increase of 49% from fiscal 2007. Sales of pocket-size models are projected to fall 22% to 2 million units. The company has not issued a profit forecast for its camera division, but it said the business swung to an operating loss in the April-June quarter.

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tweedle said:

tweedle said:

(The Nikkei Thursday morning edition)
-0- Sep/17/2008 18:30 GMT

Click to expand...

(For the full article, you will have to subscribe)

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===================

This is a miniscule number compared to the majors. Canon alone for 2008 projected DSLR sales of 4.4 million in January. Nikon was planning to ship 3 million DSLR's and 4 million lenses in the FY ended 3/2008.

Here's a graphic of all digital units shipped;

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9882670-39.html?tag=nefd.top

Canon sold 3.18 million single-lens reflex cameras in 2007 compared with Nikon's 2.98 million, according to a study released Tuesday by market researcher IDC.

In the total camera market (graphic on the link), Canon's 18.8 percent share of units shipped gave it the top rank. Next in line are Sony with 16 percent, Kodak with 9.6 percent, Samsung with 9 percent, Nikon with 8.4 percent, and Olympus with 8.3 percent.

http://dslr-cameras.blogspot.com/2008/01/japans-canon-targets-195-percent-rise.html

(Jan 2008)

Canon Inc (NYSE:CAJ) , Japan's biggest maker of office equipment and digital cameras, said Thursday it is aiming to sell 29.4 million digital cameras globally in 2008, 19.5 percent more than in 2007, to ensure its leadership in this market.

The maker of EOS digital single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras and IXY and Powershot compact digital cameras said it plans to sell 25 million compact cameras in 2008, up 16.8 percent, and 4.4 million SLR cameras, up 37.5 percent.

'In 2008 we aim to capture the top market share in Japan as well as globally, in both the compact and SLR camera segments,' Canon president Tsuneji Uchida told a press conference.

tweedle said:

Hoya aims to sell 520,000 SLR cameras in the year through March 2009, an increase of 49% from fiscal 2007.

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-------

And just where will those sales come from? Canon just cut the legs out from under the FF DSLR market - Sony has no Live View nor movie mode, and at the same price (give or take a few yen), Canon has both.

I think the new camera appears for the March 2009 show, when someone might even notice it. Releasing a model now is like competing with three "Batman" opening weekends.

The good news for camera buyers is that competition did its job; and Sony's presence in the market no doubt spurred the majors to add new features. The bad news is "everyone else", who have now fallen behind perhaps 2 generations of software.

philbarton said:

tweedle said:

A news report of today's The Nikkei seems to add a little more
information to the subject of DSLRs.

• Hoya intends to grow DSLR volumes by 49 per cent
• Compact volumes expected to decline by 22 per cent

Click to expand...

philbarton said:

philbarton said:

Hoya aims to sell 520,000 SLR cameras in the year through March 2009, an increase of 49% from fiscal 2007.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

This is a miniscule number compared to the majors.

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Sure is, but still: Will Pentax be able to make it before March 09?

With a Kx000 low-low entry level model to be released for the next holiday season and a Kx semi-pro plus a K30 to be expected for announcement/release around PMA next year, Pentax do not have that much time to get things moving for them.

philbarton said:

tweedle said:

Hoya aims to sell 520,000 SLR cameras in the year through March 2009, an increase of 49% from fiscal 2007.

Click to expand...

-------

And just where will those sales come from?

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Pentax will only be able to boost sales by these numbers in the entry level segment. And it seems that this is just what they intend to do short-term - rivalling Canon 1000D, Nikon D40 and Sony A200.