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I'm losing it, I give in. 5D, here I am !!

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Both for your coming baby and camera! :-)

I bought a used 5D this summer at a good price and haven't regretted it for a second. It's a wonderful camera. You'll love it! I too see the "magic" btw. :-)
 
Left the UK today via DHL Will post pictures as soon as it gets here !

Thanks for the kind word about the oncoming baby, hope she gets here soon, I have no idea where my gut can be at the moment, lol...

Claire
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Why make the same mistakes again when there are so many new ones to chose from ?
 
Congrats on the new camera and the baby. You think those execs at Canon would be sensitive to customers that have a special time constraints. The least they could do is sent a 5DMK2 as a baby gift.

jerry

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jerryk.smugmug.com
 
I'm getting really tired of people thinking a FF has less DoF than a crop camera at the same aperture. It doesn't. I repeat, it doesn't. The same exact lens on a FF and a crop, at the same exact aperture, at the same exact distance from the subject, will have the same exact DoF. The reason DoF on a FF "appears" thinner on a FF is because you - the photographer - are physically closer to the subject to get the same field of view as the crop camera. Unless nature and physics have been completely defied by the 5D/1Ds sensors, light still travels the same way through the same lens at the same aperture no matter the sensor size.

Also, the minimum focus distance for any specific lens is also the same on each camera, so having a crop camera with its 1.6X "magnification" will produce a seemingly larger and "closer" image at the closest possible distance. Having a FF sensor means more area outside the 1.6 sensor is visible due to the larger sensor, but the image is still exactly the same if you crop the FF photo to 1.6 size.

Jeesh, can we end this myth already?

--
Insert pretentious obligatory quote here...
 
Distance matters of course, but you're missing the other half of the picture.

The bigger sensor does change DOF, it does, repeat it does. Because you enlarge more. The CoC is different for different formats.

Does DOF change when you walk towards a picture? Yes! Does it change if you enlarge the picture? Yes! Does it change if you change the focal length? Yes! Does it change if you change the distance to the subject? Yes! Does it change if you take your glasses off? Yes! Does it change if you change the f-stop? Yes! Does it change as you get older? Yes!

The equations aren't hard if you take a bit of time with them:

http://www.dofmaster.com/equations.html

Ooh and he's now put up a handy guide:

http://www.dofmaster.com/dof_dslr.html
 
gava said:
Distance matters of course, but you're missing the other half of the
picture.

The bigger sensor does change DOF, it does, repeat it does. Because
you enlarge more. The CoC is different for different formats.

Does DOF change when you walk towards a picture? Yes! Does it change
if you enlarge the picture? Yes! Does it change if you change the
focal length? Yes! Does it change if you change the distance to the
subject? Yes! Does it change if you take your glasses off? Yes! Does
it change if you change the f-stop? Yes! Does it change as you get
older? Yes!

The equations aren't hard if you take a bit of time with them:

http://www.dofmaster.com/equations.html

Ooh and he's now put up a handy guide:

http://www.dofmaster.com/dof_dslr.html
Click to expand...
Let's use a hypothetical here. Say you have a 5D with a 50mm f/1.8 lens on it. You focus at a stationary subject 10 feet away at f/1.8 with the 36X24mm sensor and take the shot. Then, keeping ap the same and not moving the subject, camera, nor the distance, you clip off the sides of the sensor resulting in a size of 22.5X15mm (1.6X), and then take the shot again. Here, the peripheral light that would hit the larger 36X24 sensor is not captured by the 22.5X15 sensor due to being smaller. But the same captured areas are exactly the same. The lens has not changed the path of the light any differently, it's still the same. What DoFMaster is stating, is that by increasing the size of the print thereby increasing the blur has a perceived affect on DoF in the photo, but in reality, the DoF is identical.

If you taped off the edges of the sensor on a 5D to make it smaller, it's not going to change the DoF, because the lens doesn't know how big or small the sensor area is, and neither does the light path. That's like saying if you have an 8X10 and you cut the edges off to make it a 4X6, the DoF in the photo has changed. It hasn't.

--
Insert pretentious obligatory quote here...
 
Congrats on the purchase and on the upcoming viewing of your gut! :) Seriously, enjoy the camera (I recently bought one as well and I LOVE it!) and enjoy the new baby. I look forward to photos of the baby!
 
Field of view matters. Everybody knows that if you just crop a picture taken with a 5D e.g. in 1.6x crop you would get exactly the same DOF ( surprice ). But to get the same field of view with a 1.6 cropped frame you have to change the lens with one which if 1.6x wider. For a normal lens this would be about 30mm. Wide angle lenses has a peculiar way of getting the DOF wider. ;-)

When you take a picture with a 5D and take a picture with a 40D and use the same aperture and same field of view you have to use different lenses for the application. Hence there will be difference in how shallow dof it is possible to get on a 40D or a 5D for the same application.
 
Pixel density will not affect the DOF.

example: 50mm on 5D and 31 mm on 40D at f 1.4 yields 5.42 cm DOF at 100cm focus distance on 40D and 3.23cm DOF at 100cm focus distance.

There is a difference, but not extreme.
 


And more later, for the moment I am LOST in the space of the viewfinder !! I knew it'd be big but had no clue how huge it would be. It's like photographic rebirth, lol.
I did go out to shoot immediately and will post a lot more later.

Claire
--
Why make the same mistakes again when there are so many new ones to chose from ?
 
I had the same experience after several years of crop camera, the viewfinder is a revelation.

For me full frame meant a much renewed interest in photography as it took me back so firmly to my years (and years) of 35mm film shooting. One day maybe there'll be an affordable back for the Hassy I keep in the cupboard and I'll have another rebirth moment!

Kevin
 
So apt a name for this topic. Depth of field is not a matter of physics and nothing else, it's all about the perception of sharpness. Reading up on circle of confusion really is a good idea before deciding that DOF is cut and dried.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion

The magnification to which the original latent image must be subjected has an impact on the appearance of depth of field. Remember that depth of field is not a hard physical quantity, it is the area of the image that the viewer perceives as being in focus. Only objects at the precise focus of the lens are actually in focus, other things around them merely seem to be because the extent to which they are not in focus is small enough that our brain gives them a pass.

Kevin
 
in real life, you can get much thinner DOF with FF, if you choose. Believe me, I know because I shoot with both format sizes. Stop trying to justify your smaller sensor with hypothetical and matheimatical explanations, when it comes down to this: FF give you a wider FOV, so you need to get closer or use longer lens to get the same framing. Either of those options will decrease the DOF by 1.6x at the same apeture. Here are some photos that have characteristics that a crop camera can't do:

Can't get this wide (all four walls plus ceiling and floor in view), plus all in focus (large DOF if you want it). You would need a 7.5mm rectiliar lens for this.

Canon EOS 5D ,Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX DG ASP HSM
1/20s f/16.0 at 12.0mm iso100



Much larger: http://www.pbase.com/ericsorensen/image/90504545/original

Thin DOF. You would need a 50mm f0.9 to get this look from this distance:
Canon EOS 5D ,Canon EF 85mm F1.2 L USM (II)
1/400s f/1.2 at 85.0mm iso



Same with this shot:
Canon EOS 5D ,Canon EF 85mm F1.2 L USM (II)
1/250s f/1.2 at 85.0mm iso200



--



Bossier City, Louisiana
http://www.pbase.com/ericsorensen
 
therickman said:
Let's use a hypothetical here. Say you have a 5D with a 50mm f/1.8
lens on it. You focus at a stationary subject 10 feet away at f/1.8
with the 36X24mm sensor and take the shot. Then, keeping ap the same
and not moving the subject, camera, nor the distance, you clip off
the sides of the sensor resulting in a size of 22.5X15mm (1.6X), and
then take the shot again. Here, the peripheral light that would hit
the larger 36X24 sensor is not captured by the 22.5X15 sensor due to
being smaller. But the same captured areas are exactly the same. The
lens has not changed the path of the light any differently, it's
still the same. What DoFMaster is stating, is that by increasing the
size of the print thereby increasing the blur has a perceived
affect on DoF in the photo, but in reality, the DoF is identical.

If you taped off the edges of the sensor on a 5D to make it smaller,
it's not going to change the DoF, because the lens doesn't know how
big or small the sensor area is, and neither does the light path.
That's like saying if you have an 8X10 and you cut the edges off to
make it a 4X6, the DoF in the photo has changed. It hasn't.

--
Insert pretentious obligatory quote here...
Click to expand...
You don't get it. There is no such thing as "real DOF".

Here's the point. If you take a negative/sensor whatever and you enlarge 5x to get print A and you enlarge it 10x to get print B, do they have the same DOF? No they don't; the larger print has less DOF. That's what happens with the crop sensor. CoC is calculated with reference to a standard print size at standard resolution. Because the standard reference is to a fixed print size, you must enlarge images from the croppped sensor MORE and therefore the DOF is different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_confusion

If the circle of confusion changes then the DOF changes. Changing format changes CoC.
 
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