Megapixels vs. zoom

I have just acquired a Sony DSC-S85. People have said to me: why do you need so many megapixels, why don't you go for the olympus that has 3.x and 8x zoom?????

My usage is for kids (5 of them) at home and play, and sometimes at school assemblies. My husband will use it intermittently at work to record data for research purposes (he won't be photographing molecules, he'll be photographing people).

I will be sending photos to the relatives via email, printing 4x6's but I also want the option to print the occasional 8x10 when I just love the photo.

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Another option you might consider is the new Fuji S602 with 3MP and 6x optical zoom with loads of other nice features.

Cassandra

--
http://welcome.to/cassandras-gallery
http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
http://www.photoaccess.com/share/guest.jsp?Gallery=AE101322506&cb=PA

Hi S.T.

Any answer of course is going to be sujective. However the difference in pixels between 3 and 4 is less signifigant then the zoom for your stated purpose. If you're going to be shooting assemblies, the images will be easier to frame and to focus if you zoom right up to the subject. Other factors involved, and I'm not familiar with either camera, is the size of the aperture. A large aperture will make taking indoor pictures easier, so that's another factor to consider.

Dave

S.T. said:

I have just acquired a Sony DSC-S85. People have said to me: why
do you need so many megapixels, why don't you go for the olympus
that has 3.x and 8x zoom?????

My usage is for kids (5 of them) at home and play, and sometimes at
school assemblies. My husband will use it intermittently at work to
record data for research purposes (he won't be photographing
molecules, he'll be photographing people).

I will be sending photos to the relatives via email, printing 4x6's
but I also want the option to print the occasional 8x10 when I just
love the photo.

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

given the straight choice of 4/3 or 3/8 i would go for the second option if everything else was equal.. but it isnt.. so u need to give the "everything else" some deep thought..

trog100

1. #

S.T. said:

I have just acquired a Sony DSC-S85. People have said to me: why
do you need so many megapixels, why don't you go for the olympus
that has 3.x and 8x zoom?????

My usage is for kids (5 of them) at home and play, and sometimes at
school assemblies. My husband will use it intermittently at work to
record data for research purposes (he won't be photographing
molecules, he'll be photographing people).

I will be sending photos to the relatives via email, printing 4x6's
but I also want the option to print the occasional 8x10 when I just
love the photo.

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

hardsuit wrote:

S.T. said:

I have just acquired a Sony DSC-S85. People have said to me: why
do you need so many megapixels, why don't you go for the olympus
that has 3.x and 8x zoom?????

My usage is for kids (5 of them) at home and play, and sometimes at
school assemblies. My husband will use it intermittently at work to
record data for research purposes (he won't be photographing
molecules, he'll be photographing people).

Click to expand...

I reccomend the fuji finepix S-602. ($799) its 3mp and 6x optical zoom
are supurb for shooting the distances at assebmly and outdoor.
here its more important to gave good glass than to have many megapixel.

the 602 is also supurb for portraits, its bright F/2.8 lens collects alot of light.
the S-602 is virsitile, the manual focus ring gives you that extra percision,
not found on some digicams. dual cards allow you to swap memory if you
have or considering another digicam, it has CF and Smartmedia.
its battery performance is improved , thanks to AA rechargable battery.
get good ones though at least NiMh 1800 mAh about $24 for kit.

S.T. said:

I will be sending photos to the relatives via email, printing 4x6's
but I also want the option to print the occasional 8x10 when I just
love the photo.

Click to expand...

great, the 602 can either shoot in small size or higher res.
I recommend shooting in highest then resizeing them.
@ 6mp ( enhanced ) its a very clear 8x10 print. with ability to crop.
and save image in lower res. like zooming in on someones eyeball. 2mp.
@ 3mp you can get good quality 8x10 less ability to crop.
here it begins to pixilate, usually 6mp images have better color too.

S.T. said:

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

--
' lets see what's out there.....engage'

Hi Hardsuit01

I don't own the 602 and for all I know it's a very good camera. However recommending the 6mp enhanced is no recomendation at all. Essentially this is an interpolated mode and one is much better off doing this with the computers software as opposed to using the camera. So if anyone considers this camera they should consider the true resolution and not the interpolated one.

Dave

hardsuit01 said:

S.T. said:

I have just acquired a Sony DSC-S85. People have said to me: why
do you need so many megapixels, why don't you go for the olympus
that has 3.x and 8x zoom?????

My usage is for kids (5 of them) at home and play, and sometimes at
school assemblies. My husband will use it intermittently at work to
record data for research purposes (he won't be photographing
molecules, he'll be photographing people).

Click to expand...

I reccomend the fuji finepix S-602. ($799) its 3mp and 6x optical zoom
are supurb for shooting the distances at assebmly and outdoor.
here its more important to gave good glass than to have many
megapixel.
the 602 is also supurb for portraits, its bright F/2.8 lens
collects alot of light.
the S-602 is virsitile, the manual focus ring gives you that extra
percision,
not found on some digicams. dual cards allow you to swap memory if you
have or considering another digicam, it has CF and Smartmedia.
its battery performance is improved , thanks to AA rechargable
battery.
get good ones though at least NiMh 1800 mAh about $24 for kit.

hardsuit01 said:

I will be sending photos to the relatives via email, printing 4x6's
but I also want the option to print the occasional 8x10 when I just
love the photo.

Click to expand...

great, the 602 can either shoot in small size or higher res.
I recommend shooting in highest then resizeing them.
@ 6mp ( enhanced ) its a very clear 8x10 print. with ability to crop.
and save image in lower res. like zooming in on someones eyeball. 2mp.
@ 3mp you can get good quality 8x10 less ability to crop.
here it begins to pixilate, usually 6mp images have better color too.

hardsuit01 said:

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

--
' lets see what's out there.....engage'

Click to expand...

Not to mention $799.00 for a 3 MP camera?
John

David Barkin said:

I don't own the 602 and for all I know it's a very good camera.
However recommending the 6mp enhanced is no recomendation at all.
Essentially this is an interpolated mode and one is much better off
doing this with the computers software as opposed to using the
camera. So if anyone considers this camera they should consider the
true resolution and not the interpolated one.

Dave

hardsuit01 said:

S.T. said:

I have just acquired a Sony DSC-S85. People have said to me: why
do you need so many megapixels, why don't you go for the olympus
that has 3.x and 8x zoom?????

My usage is for kids (5 of them) at home and play, and sometimes at
school assemblies. My husband will use it intermittently at work to
record data for research purposes (he won't be photographing
molecules, he'll be photographing people).

Click to expand...

I reccomend the fuji finepix S-602. ($799) its 3mp and 6x optical zoom
are supurb for shooting the distances at assebmly and outdoor.
here its more important to gave good glass than to have many
megapixel.
the 602 is also supurb for portraits, its bright F/2.8 lens
collects alot of light.
the S-602 is virsitile, the manual focus ring gives you that extra
percision,
not found on some digicams. dual cards allow you to swap memory if you
have or considering another digicam, it has CF and Smartmedia.
its battery performance is improved , thanks to AA rechargable
battery.
get good ones though at least NiMh 1800 mAh about $24 for kit.

David Barkin said:

I will be sending photos to the relatives via email, printing 4x6's
but I also want the option to print the occasional 8x10 when I just
love the photo.

Click to expand...

great, the 602 can either shoot in small size or higher res.
I recommend shooting in highest then resizeing them.
@ 6mp ( enhanced ) its a very clear 8x10 print. with ability to crop.
and save image in lower res. like zooming in on someones eyeball. 2mp.
@ 3mp you can get good quality 8x10 less ability to crop.
here it begins to pixilate, usually 6mp images have better color too.

David Barkin said:

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

--
' lets see what's out there.....engage'

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I had trouble making the same decision about 8 mos ago. I went with the more zoom olympus c-700uz. It takes wonderful pics of my son. I love to be able to sit on a park bench and zoom right in to the action. I've printed a few 8x10's and they come out great

Now, this is my opinion about the zoom part. Since you will be photographing people, you may not really need a powerful zoom. I think it's more important to find a camera with the shortest shutter lag possible.

In my experience photographing people and kids going about their normal business, a 35mm to 90mm range is really the most useful. I used to use a fixed 50mm lens to do nearly all of my street photography (along with the 35mm). A 75 to 90mm equivalent takes good portraits from about 8 feet away.

Other things to consider: Avoid using flash, so get one with a lens that can open up. (Flash looks unnatural, and you have to wait for the recharge -- and miss more candid opportunities).

Quick lag time: You can't capture the facial expressions by the time the camera finally fires. Lot's a stupid facial expressions and deleted pictures. The majority of pictures will end up looking posed.

After putting this together, I don't think there is a camera in the consumer range that can do all this. So I guess I'm not really helping you!

-- Martin

S.T. said:

I have just acquired a Sony DSC-S85. People have said to me: why
do you need so many megapixels, why don't you go for the olympus
that has 3.x and 8x zoom?????

My usage is for kids (5 of them) at home and play, and sometimes at
school assemblies. My husband will use it intermittently at work to
record data for research purposes (he won't be photographing
molecules, he'll be photographing people).

I will be sending photos to the relatives via email, printing 4x6's
but I also want the option to print the occasional 8x10 when I just
love the photo.

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

--
-- Martin

S.T. said:

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

My humble opinion - all other factors being equal - go for the zoom.

I have a Canon Pro90IS - (2.6M) and have printed many an 8x10 with excellent result - the bigger zooms are awesome and really allow you to get fabulous close-ups.
--
Carpe Diem

Let me throw my two cents in as well......

I agree that zoom is important, but as previously stated, there are MANY other factors to look at. Resolution, lense, shutter lag, etc. are all very important photography elements. You can have the best of both worlds.

I recently purchased a Sony 707....this camera is awesome. 5mp, Carl Zeiss lense (aperture 2.0 / 2.4) so it is extremely good in low-light situations (hate using a flash!) not to mention 5x OPTICAL and 10X Digital zoom. Now before you bad mouth the digital zoom...you must understand that Sony using a different method of digital zoom than most manufacturers. The results using the 10x zoom are incredible.

This $1,000 camera can be had for anywhere between $700 - $850 by searching the web and using SEARS price match policy! I challenge anyone to beat that!

Alan

Eugene Gallucci said:

S.T. said:

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

My humble opinion - all other factors being equal - go for the zoom.
I have a Canon Pro90IS - (2.6M) and have printed many an 8x10 with
excellent result - the bigger zooms are awesome and really allow
you to get fabulous close-ups.
--
Carpe Diem

Click to expand...

Alan Potocki said:

Now before you bad mouth the digital
zoom...you must understand that Sony using a different method of
digital zoom than most manufacturers.

Click to expand...

No they don't.

Alan Potocki said:

The results using the 10x zoom are incredible.

Click to expand...

So would not using the digital zoom and instead cropping and rescaling with a Lanczos algorithm be. It's the exact same thing, and it's what all digital zooms do. Except they usually use a simpler algorithm.

Alan Potocki said:

This $1,000 camera can be had for anywhere between $700 - $850 by
searching the web and using SEARS price match policy! I challenge
anyone to beat that!

Click to expand...

An UZi can be had for about half that and has x10 optical zoom with image stabilizer. Sure, fewer pixels, but by far enough for 4x5 prints and the occasional 8x10.

--
Jesper

TheSwede,

There has been a lot of discussion in STF on this subject....I'll have to differ with you on this topic. Being an owner of a 707 and a OLY, the 707 digital zoom is VERY impressive. Also, here is an excerpt of a thread discussing this issue:

On Sony digicams, and especially the F707, the digital zoom is a step ahead of the competition's.

Sony apparently uses the technique of cropping and enlarging the RAW image captured from the CCD BEFORE conversion and compression to JPEG. Most others use the compressed JPEG image and then crops and enlarges the pixels.

Only in the case of the F707 do I advocate using the digital zoom because the results can be impressive and stunning.

TheSwede said:

Alan Potocki said:

Now before you bad mouth the digital
zoom...you must understand that Sony using a different method of
digital zoom than most manufacturers.

Click to expand...

No they don't.

theswede #100093 said:

The results using the 10x zoom are incredible.

Click to expand...

So would not using the digital zoom and instead cropping and
rescaling with a Lanczos algorithm be. It's the exact same thing,
and it's what all digital zooms do. Except they usually use a
simpler algorithm.

theswede #100093 said:

This $1,000 camera can be had for anywhere between $700 - $850 by
searching the web and using SEARS price match policy! I challenge
anyone to beat that!

Click to expand...

An UZi can be had for about half that and has x10 optical zoom with
image stabilizer. Sure, fewer pixels, but by far enough for 4x5
prints and the occasional 8x10.

--
Jesper

Click to expand...

theswede #100093 said:

theswede #100093 said:

The results using the 10x zoom are incredible.

Click to expand...

So would not using the digital zoom and instead cropping and
rescaling with a Lanczos algorithm be. It's the exact same thing,
and it's what all digital zooms do. Except they usually use a
simpler algorithm.

An UZi can be had for about half that and has x10 optical zoom with
image stabilizer. Sure, fewer pixels, but by far enough for 4x5
prints and the occasional 8x10.

--
Jesper

Click to expand...

I agree here, Jesper - I have the 10x optical and quite frankly keep the digital zoom turned off (unless I manually need to focus)

It's actually better (for me) to crop using software - at least I have the full shot to play with.
--
Carpe Diem

Alan Potocki said:

There has been a lot of discussion in STF on this subject....I'll
have to differ with you on this topic. Being an owner of a 707 and
a OLY, the 707 digital zoom is VERY impressive. Also, here is an
excerpt of a thread discussing this issue:

Click to expand...

And cropping and scaling a jpeg using Lanczos is also VERY impressive. Still the same thing.

Alan Potocki said:

Sony apparently uses the technique of cropping and enlarging the
RAW image captured from the CCD BEFORE conversion and compression
to JPEG. Most others use the compressed JPEG image and then crops
and enlarges the pixels.

Click to expand...

First of all, note the "apparently". Is this fact or conjencture?

Second, NO camera zooms using the compressed jpeg. None. Nada. Zilch. They all use either the RAW data or the interpolated data, before processing, compressing and writing to storage.

This factual error alone casts a lot of doubt over the technical accuracy of this post.

In addition the use of RAW or interpolated data makes very little difference. What matters is the algorithms used. More likely the edge the Sony has is that it uses a better algorithm. Doing it in Photoshop from a RAW or TIFF is the exact same thing. Doing it from a jpeg is very close.

--
Jesper

Obviously there are differing formulas for interpolation. Some are better then others. In any event you are using software to replace missing data.

I happen to like interpolation. It's great, but it by no means replaces that missing data. While I can IMAGINE situations where a digital zoom would be usefull I personally can't see using it and I don't think that anyone is going to get really regular and good use of interpolation - In camera.

Get the real data - Use a real zoom and then if necessary use interpolation.

Dave

Aloha,

We went with the IS and 10x Zoom of the Olympus C-2100 UZ. The wife is more than happy with the few 8 x 10s she's made. We aren't photo fanatics. We feel the the C-2100 UZ gave the most bang for the bucks($499 at Comp USA). The 10 x zoom is fantastic at what it can pick up at max plus. Not the equal of a good 35 mm, but we're happy. It has a burst mode. We're still learning what its capabilities are. It's not perfect, but then again, what is?

the main pic is os a full frame shot.. at 60 x optical and the small pic is a digital blow up.. the camera.. kodak dc4800 (3 mega pixel).. the lense.. kenco 80mm field pro spotting scope.. the combination.. a 2000mm film equiv..



trog100

1. #

Vernon Okamura said:

Aloha,
We went with the IS and 10x Zoom of the Olympus C-2100 UZ. The wife
is more than happy with the few 8 x 10s she's made. We aren't
photo fanatics. We feel the the C-2100 UZ gave the most bang for
the bucks($499 at Comp USA). The 10 x zoom is fantastic at what it
can pick up at max plus. Not the equal of a good 35 mm, but we're
happy. It has a burst mode. We're still learning what its
capabilities are. It's not perfect, but then again, what is?

Click to expand...

But if you read the original poster's question carefully, you'll find that he wants to use the camera for people shots. A powerful zoom will not be of much help to him, unless he likes to stay WAY back from his subjects.

I have taken hundreds upon hundreds of shots of people at parties, on the street, in all sorts of situations, and I find that my focal length always stays within the 35 - 90mm range. And I don't use flash.

People's expressions are so difficult to capture when your shutter is slow to respond, and when you have to wait for the image to save to the card. Believe me -- the face you'll capture will not be the face you saw in the viewfinder.

I'm keeping my (now old) Olympus C2500 because its shutter lag among the fastest and the lens's optics seem to be optimized at 50mm to 90mm. I like the lens too -- the out-of-focus areas are quite pleasing, and there is a nice 3-D quality to portraits. Granted - one shouldn't come to expect much from consumer digicams when it comes to lens aesthetics - people generally want flexibility at the expense of perfection. Still, the Olympus lenses on their SLR-style cameras are probably the best of them all. They aren't perfect at their extremes, but they do very nicely at their own particular sweet spots.

Eugene Gallucci said:

S.T. said:

So, 4 megapixel with 3x zoom vs. 3 megapixel with 8x zoom.
Any opinions????? (I still have time to return the sony....)

Click to expand...

My humble opinion - all other factors being equal - go for the zoom.
I have a Canon Pro90IS - (2.6M) and have printed many an 8x10 with
excellent result - the bigger zooms are awesome and really allow
you to get fabulous close-ups.
--
Carpe Diem

Click to expand...

--
-- Martin

Thank you all for all your comments, you have been extremely helpful. I'm going to stick with the Sony S85 (for now at least ) and see how it goes.

S.T.