Here we go, Mike: IQ FZ5 v FZ8 (and G9)

Here I start a new thread to not overload the original one with my 'spam'.

But the reason for this post is Mikedigis question about the image quality of the FZ5:
" http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=28899488 "

Actually I was always believing that the image quality of my FZ8 was at least the same when not better than of my old FZ5. Mikes question made me do a more serious research on this... and oh-ha!

I must admit that this is not a 100% proper elaboration like we are used to see here (i.e. I often just used P-Mode - so aperture and shutter speed alter in compared shots) so please be kind and don't blame me too much for technical mistakes.

I only did this to have a possibility for comparisons between the FZ5 and FZ8 in their all-day-use settings. There is no aim to discredit any camera. I owned both and love both!
The next post contains a couple of larger images.

.

Finally I found a way to post images from Picasaweb in their original size. I just tried what happens when I deleted the " size " in the link and it worked...

The following shows 100% crops of the original images.
(cropped in FastStone, stitched in IrfanView, no other PP)

001:
(always from left to right)
FZ5_ISO80_F4_250s_36mm
FZ8_ISO100_F4_200s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO100_F4_200s_36mm_7MP



002:
FZ5_ISO80_F2.8_100s_36mm
FZ8_ISO100_F2.8_80s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO100_F2.8_100s_36mm_7MP



003:
FZ5_ISO200_F3.2_100s_36mm
FZ8_ISO200_F2.8_100s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO200_F2.8_100s_36mm_7MP



More will follow in a minute (or 2)...

Pics don't show yet, so you're halfway there. When I first checked Properties on one of the images, it showed as a .gif, then a few minutes later as .jpg. There's a Google "not on this server" error message when you attempt to open in New Window. Keep trying, you'll get it. ;-)

mike (marshall)

To post pics from Picasa:

select the photo you want to post
over on the right hand side, click "link to this photo"
select size (drop dpwn box) select large 800px
highlight HTML to embed in website
right click copy
go back to the post in the forum you are doing and right click paste
delete everything BEFORE the last http
delete everything AFTER the last jpeg
click preview and your photo should be there

I hope this helps. Good luck!
Carol

They were there in the preview! Don't know were they are gone. Here is another try - but only in Picasas "big" mode. So pic are reduced in size and not in 100%!
But I want to show something now and then I'll go on with finding a solution...

001:
(always from left to right)
FZ5_ISO80_F4_250s_36mm
FZ8_ISO100_F4_200s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO100_F4_200s_36mm_7MP



002:
FZ5_ISO80_F2.8_100s_36mm
FZ8_ISO100_F2.8_80s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO100_F2.8_100s_36mm_7MP



003:
FZ5_ISO200_F3.2_100s_36mm
FZ8_ISO200_F2.8_100s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO200_F2.8_100s_36mm_7MP



More will follow... and hopefully in 100% view!

Thank you, Mike (marshall) and Carol!

I thought I found a way to post the pics from Picasa in their original size - at 100%. So they could have been a good base for conclusions about the image quality.

But the way I found worked only for some minutes! The preview was OK but suddenly the pictures disappeared.
Even the download link did not work...

hmmm...

...

I decided to post the album link AND show Picasawebs downsized versions here for those who are curious!

Here is the album:
" http://picasaweb.google.de/Franz.070/CompareCameras "

You can enlarge the picture to its original size by clicking on the magnifier symbol top right.

And here is the next set of comparing shots:

004:
(always from left to right)
FZ5_ISO80_F2.8_50s_36mm
FZ8_ISO100_F2.8_60s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO100_F2.8_60s_36mm_7MP



005:
FZ5_ISO200_F3.2_100s_36mm
FZ8_ISO200_F2.8_100s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO200_F2.8_100s_36mm_7MP



006:
FZ5_ISO200_F8_1300s_36mm
FZ8_ISO200_F8_800s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO200_F8_800s_36mm_7MP



more to come...

one other ISO 200 shot:

007:

FZ5_ISO200_F4_400s_36mm
FZ8_ISO200_F5.6_200s_36mm_5MP
FZ8_ISO200_F5.6_200s_36mm_7MP



and a couple where I lost the FZ8 7MP shot...

008:
FZ5_ISO80_F4.5_250s_432mm
FZ8_ISO100_F4.5_250s_437mm_5MP



still more to come... (alone with some great cameras around the house I could not find the break) ;-)

The next 4 pics don't show the 7 MP version anymore. Instead of that I added FZ8 pictures with sharpness set to high.

009:
033_FZ5_ISO80_F5.6_640s_219mm
035_FZ8_ISO100_F6.3_400s_213mm_5MP
038_FZ8_ISO100_F6.3_400s_213mm_sharpness high_5MP



010:
034_FZ5_ISO200_F6.3_1000s_219mm
036_FZ8_ISO200_F8_500s_213mm_5MP
037_FZ8_ISO200_F8_500s_213mm_sharpness high_5MP



And I added the G9 to compare with FZ5 and sharp FZ8 pictures. The G9 shots are soft - but - decide by yourself...

011:
033_FZ5_ISO80_F5.6_640s_219mm
038_FZ8_ISO100_F6.3_400s_213mm_sharpness high_5MP
031_G9_ISO80_F4.8_640s_44.4mm_5MP



012:
034_FZ5_ISO200_F6.3_1000s_219mm
037_FZ8_ISO200_F8_500s_213mm_sharpness high_5MP
032_G9_ISO200_F4.8_1250s_44.4mm_5MP



So! Puh...
What do you think?

Thx for posting!

In the second comparison, the FZ5 seems to be misfocussed or subject to
camera shake, since it's softer, not reflected in the other test shots.

In the previous post, the FZ5 images looked a little darker exposed
which could explain there being less visible detail in the shadows.

But there isn't really much between them otherwise. Possibly the FZ5
upsized to 8Mp would show slightly more difference.

Again, thanks for the test!

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

Ehrik said:

Thx for posting!

In the second comparison, the FZ5 seems to be misfocussed or subject to
camera shake, since it's softer, not reflected in the other test shots.

Click to expand...

Both shots were taken on a tripod with a 2sec countdown.
The spot-focus was set to the right side of the blue hat.
I always thought that the FZ5 is a bit softer - but less noisy.

Ehrik said:

In the previous post, the FZ5 images looked a little darker exposed
which could explain there being less visible detail in the shadows.

Click to expand...

Ehric, I forgot to mention that the FZ8 is set to low contrast in all shots! Sorry about this. I have it like this all the time as it brings out some more detail in the shadows.

Ehrik said:

But there isn't really much between them otherwise. Possibly the FZ5
upsized to 8Mp would show slightly more difference.

Again, thanks for the test!

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

Click to expand...

Thanks for looking
Franz

Franz07 said:

. . . . Actually I was always believing that the image quality of my FZ8 was
at least the same when not better than of my old FZ5. Mikes question
made me do a more serious research on this... and oh-ha! . . . .

Click to expand...

Franz, thanks for showing these side-by-side comparisons - a rare thing to see!

These are all 100% crops, stitched - is that right?

I'm finding it difficult to come to a conclusion. Sometimes the FZ5 seems to be under-exposing a little, so that the FZ8 colours are more alive. And it is difficult to know whether we are getting exactly the same settings - exposure, contrast, saturation, sharpness, NR, colour warmth, etc., on the two different cameras.

But overall the FZ5 does not seem to me to be showing clear superiority over the FZ8.

In the blue sky and white clouds shot, the FZ8 looks a bit cleaner than the FZ5, which surprises me, as I have found skies difficult with the FZ8.

The colour of the wall from the G9 is different from that from the FZx's - I don't know which is closer to the true colour.

Although there are fewer comparisons with the G9, this camera appears to be demonstrating its reputation for better IQ - especially on the green foliage. But it does not offer the same zoom range, of course.

What do you think about the results?

Mike

Panasonic EffZedEight, Fuji EffTwenty

Mikedigi said:

Franz07 said:

. . . . Actually I was always believing that the image quality of my FZ8 was
at least the same when not better than of my old FZ5. Mikes question
made me do a more serious research on this... and oh-ha! . . . .

Click to expand...

Franz, thanks for showing these side-by-side comparisons - a rare
thing to see!

Click to expand...

Was big fun and nice to get my FZ8 back for a while!

And again I learned to like the surprisingly well equipped IrfanView very much (even running in ubuntu/Linux). Canons PhotoStich didn't do the job.

Mikedigi said:

These are all 100% crops, stitched - is that right?

Click to expand...

No! I'm sorry, Mike. In this thread you only see about 80% crops. Picasaweb wouldn't led me show the original 999x1024px stitches. For the 100% you have to go to my album:
" http://picasaweb.google.de/Franz.070/CompareCameras "

You can enlarge the picture to its original size by clicking on the magnifier symbol in the top right. The 100% versions show differences in more clarity.

Mikedigi said:

I'm finding it difficult to come to a conclusion. Sometimes the FZ5
seems to be under-exposing a little, so that the FZ8 colours are more
alive...

Click to expand...

That may have to do with the FZ8's contrast set to low...?

Mikedigi said:

...And it is difficult to know whether we are getting exactly the
same settings - exposure, contrast, saturation, sharpness, NR, colour
warmth, etc., on the two different cameras.

Click to expand...

The FZ5 was set to its standards (mostly used P mode). FZ8 was contrast low, everything else on standard unless I mentioned having set sharpness to high. Of course NR was set to standard to. Within the last 4 shots the FZ8's system choosed the less favorable settings (P Mode) and the NR smeared detail. With better settings the IQ could have been much better I guess.

Mikedigi said:

But overall the FZ5 does not seem to me to be showing clear
superiority over the FZ8.

Click to expand...

In low ISO shots the FZ5 seems cleaner to my eye in most cases - but also softer. The FZ8 shows more noise but also more crispness (IMHO).

Mikedigi said:

In the blue sky and white clouds shot, the FZ8 looks a bit cleaner
than the FZ5, which surprises me, as I have found skies difficult
with the FZ8.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. The blue sky shots are ISO200. The advantage of the FZ8 may be the result of the FZ8's NR set to standard. We have less noise and don't see the loss of detail in the sky. I found the same nice effect in portraits and other settings were detail is not the most important thing.

Mikedigi said:

The colour of the wall from the G9 is different from that from the
FZx's - I don't know which is closer to the true colour.

Click to expand...

The exact middle between both would have been the right colour.

Mikedigi said:

Although there are fewer comparisons with the G9, this camera appears
to be demonstrating its reputation for better IQ - especially on the
green foliage. But it does not offer the same zoom range, of course.

Click to expand...

Yes, the G9 does a great job! But it has drawbacks as well. Especially compared to the FZx's. It tends to blow highlights, is very slow sometimes (no measure - just feels like), flash is uneven and redeye is a big problem. It's heavy and I'm always concerned about lens protection... Just to mention a few.

Mikedigi said:

What do you think about the results?

Click to expand...

Puhhh...

At the risk of getting bashed I would nevertheless say that the FZ5 has only just about a fingernail thick IQ advantages. The FZ8 has more detail and crispness in good light. And it is much better to handle! I discovered this once again in the last days.

Mikedigi said:

Mike

Panasonic EffZedEight, Fuji EffTwenty

Click to expand...

Tomorrow I will have another look at the original pictures. Maybe I will find more impressions to share.

Always keep playing!
Franz

Erik, sorry for the mistakes in writing your name last post! I was a bit tired I think.

Just to be sure I did another try today on the probably misfocussed FZ5 shot you pointed out (Pic 008).

Here is the original picture:

All setting to standard in both cameras but FZ8's contrast set to low. P-Mode and spot-focusing at the right border of the red hat. I used a tripod and a 2sec delay to avoid blur.
008:
FZ5_ISO80_F4.5_250s_432mm
FZ8_ISO100_F4.5_250s_437mm_5MP



In todays shot all is the same but I focussed at the yellow beak (wright wort?) and made a 600x800px crop.
013:
041_FZ5_ISO80_F4_250s_72mm
039_FZ8_ISO100_F4.5_200s_59mm_5MP



For me it looks as is the impression of pic008 is verified. And I hope my FZ5 is not defective - never had the feeling!

The original sized pictures can be found here:
" http://picasaweb.google.de/Franz.070/CompareCameras "

Greetings
Franz

Hi Mike,
you mentioned the use of warm tone setting in another post.

Still playing around with the FZ's I did a side by side comparison of this. Settings as above, spot-focussed at the yellow beak and 100% cropped to 600x800px.

Original sized pictures can be found here:
" http://picasaweb.google.de/Franz.070/CompareCameras "

With the FZ5 I used the "vivid" setting but it does not really seem to be the same as the FZ8's "warm".

014:
041_FZ5_ISO80_F4_250s_72mm (12x zoom)
042_FZ5_ISO80_F4_250s_72mm_Vivid



Not that much to say here

And here is the FZ8's "warm" setting:
015:
039_FZ8_ISO100_F4.5_200s_59mm_5MP (almost 12x zoom - decided by frame)
040_FZ8_ISO100_F4.5_200s_59mm_5MP_Warm



It's outdoor effect may be a bit to strong? But I think this must be different in other light conditions - I remember to have taken nice "warm" shots indoors.

Always keep playing!
Franz

Franz07 said:

. . . . Just to be sure I did another try today on the probably misfocussed
FZ5 shot you pointed out (Pic 008). . . . .

Click to expand...

Thanks Franz!

In your re-run of these shots the FZ8 looks better to me.

Mike

Panasonic EffZedEight, Fuji EffTwenty

Franz07 said:

Hi Mike,
you mentioned the use of warm tone setting in another post. . . . .

Click to expand...

Thanks Franz.

I also mentioned in another post that for me the FZ8 warm setting is perhaps a little warmer than I see, more like what I want to see. I use it with high saturation.

The standard setting is cooler than I see (blue-ish greens etc) and I don't like it much, even combined with high saturation.

My conclusion was that it would be nice to have graduated warm settings, with the FZ8's warm setting level as maximum.

I like the "life" of the warm setting. It's great on greens, reds, yellows, oranges, blues - but the problem is the yellowness of whites.

Mike

Panasonic EffZedEight, Fuji EffTwenty

Franz07 said:

Erik, sorry for the mistakes in writing your name last post! I was a
bit tired I think.

Click to expand...

No problem, my user name is a play with spelling in itself and I regularly see
my name spelled in different ways here.

Thanks for repeating your test. It seems clear your FZ5 is softer at
12x zoom than your FZ8. Since the difference is much less at 36mm
I'm inclined to think this is due to the copy of the lens in your FZ5
rather than a consistent difference between the models (even though
that possibility can't be ruled out).

Not that your FZ5 is "outside specs" but your FZ8 lens may be closer to
ideal.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
--

Choose the sensor size for noise levels and DOF control; choose the Mp count for image resolution; ignore pixel density, as it does not directly measure anything useful.

Mikedigi said:

...
The standard setting is cooler than I see (blue-ish greens etc) and I
don't like it much, even combined with high saturation.

My conclusion was that it would be nice to have graduated warm
settings, with the FZ8's warm setting level as maximum.

I like the "life" of the warm setting. It's great on greens, reds,
yellows, oranges, blues - but the problem is the yellowness of whites.

...

Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

actually I like this colour cast of the FZ8. It has the more "natural" look to me.

But just as you did my father also complained about this blue-ish effect. He tried to solve it by setting the WB permanently to "cloudy". That helped but the whites got a yellow tint then.

Now I ask myself if you could set the manual WB to a custom adjustment that would fit your taste in most situations. Did you try this?

Franz

Franz07 said:

Mikedigi said:

The standard setting is cooler than I see (blue-ish greens etc) and I
don't like it much, even combined with high saturation.
My conclusion was that it would be nice to have graduated warm
settings, with the FZ8's warm setting level as maximum.
I like the "life" of the warm setting. It's great on greens, reds,
yellows, oranges, blues - but the problem is the yellowness of whites.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Franz07 said:

Hi Mike,
actually I like this colour cast of the FZ8. It has the more
"natural" look to me.

But just as you did my father also complained about this blue-ish
effect. He tried to solve it by setting the WB permanently to
"cloudy". That helped but the whites got a yellow tint then.

Click to expand...

Hi Franz,

Someone else suggested "cloudy" and I tried it, but liked it less than warm effect. I have not tried any other WB settings for this purpose, but I guess it might be worth a few tests.

Meanwhile I'm very happy with the warm effect in many colour situations, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me!

Mike

Panasonic EffZedEight, Fuji EffTwenty