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British Photog's have frighting experience in US

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jon J. Both (Edgeman)
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Ger Bee said:
In both cases I think your government wanted to be attacked so as
they could rally the nation and declare war against an enemy who
had perpetrated such a dastardly act.
Click to expand...
Actually, that can't possibly be true. If you study history a little closer, you would see we were already helping the English and Russians in WWII before the attack on Pearl Harbor. If the US wanted to get into the war via an attack, it would have been far easier to make something happen in the Atlantic than in the Pacific.

Not to mention that Japanese carriers being sunk by US carrier air planes just off the coast of Pearl would have been enough to rally the public against the Japanese. There was actually no need for the US to sit by and be attacked.

Suggested reading: The Two-Ocean War by Samuel Eliot Morison, paper back, page 69.
 
Hi Richard

I'm a bit puzzled by your post. It's always a pleasure to blame "bleeding heart liberals." I assume that it was these people who hired the high tech airport security, each given a 15 minute video tape and then they were on their own protecting America. Or perhaps it was these same liberals who refused to allow a legal warrent to go through to investigate a computer of an arrested man who is probably one of the 9/11 terrorists.

Perhaps it was corporate America and their conservative friends who really couldn't see the importance of blowing all this money on reasonable security personal, or even doors on the cockpits of airliners - Very expensive you know.

And you should really feel secure now that you know that any American can be arrested and if the goverment declares him an enemy combatant, they can be held incumuncade indefintitlty. It was amusing that Ashcroft made this announcement from Moscow.

Doesn't that make you feel safer? Some people feel that the only right we need, is the right to hide under the bed.

But you are certainly right about one thing, If they allow another attack THAT THEY COULD HAVE EASILY prevented, you'll hear from us.
Richard A. Gibson said:
Your logic is wandering all over the place. You've created
strawman hypothetical aruments and drawn conclusions based on what
appears is the most pessimestic situation (and of course, suits
your argument).

The melodrama about "rights" is mis placed. My wife's best friend
lost her eldest son, Lcdr Otis Tolbert in the Pentagon. Otis left
three children, one with Cerebral Palsy. My wife used to help his
mother out by taking him to and from school as a child in
California. My wife could see the smoke from the Pentagon as it
happened; little did she know this young man died in those flames.

If a terrorist is successful again the press, and all the bleeding
heart liberals will be all over our nation's leaders for letting
them get by again. We live in trying times and patience and
restraint is called for by everyone.

Next time why not simply ask if it would all right to take a picture?

Rich
Click to expand...
 
Hi Serra

Ger Bee is a believer in the conspiricy theory of history. With these characters logic really doesn't mean anything. Your point that stopping an attack would have been just as good as letting one go through is a hinderance to their logic. I'm curious to know what refutation Ger Bee has for that. Something bizzare no doubt.

Dave
Serra said:
Ger Bee said:
In both cases I think your government wanted to be attacked so as
they could rally the nation and declare war against an enemy who
had perpetrated such a dastardly act.
Click to expand...
Actually, that can't possibly be true. If you study history a
little closer, you would see we were already helping the English
and Russians in WWII before the attack on Pearl Harbor. If the US
wanted to get into the war via an attack, it would have been far
easier to make something happen in the Atlantic than in the Pacific.

Not to mention that Japanese carriers being sunk by US carrier air
planes just off the coast of Pearl would have been enough to rally
the public against the Japanese. There was actually no need for
the US to sit by and be attacked.

Suggested reading: The Two-Ocean War by Samuel Eliot Morison, paper
back, page 69.
Click to expand...
 
Richard,

I will use much patience and restraint in my response. I typed a rather lengthy message several times and then stopped myself from sending it.

If you want to ask permission to take pics in a public area, go ahead. Just don't force me to.

I'm sorry for your personal loss. I lost two dear friends in the WTC. 9/11 touched the world greatly, but the way we honor our friends is not to give up what they died for.

For their sake, I will not live each day in fear that every person I see doing something slightly odd is out to hurt me. if I do, then I live in terror and the terrorists win.

Rick
 
Rinus said:
I dis not intend to post a message, I was reading it and clicked
the reply by accident. Must have been a spasm!
Rinus
Click to expand...
But you have to click two times, intentionally, to post in this newsgroup. The chance of two spasms on just the right buttons are remote. Surely you are a terrorist.

Gary Eickmeier
 
I'm curious to know what
David Barkin said:
refutation Ger Bee has for that. Something bizzare no doubt.
Click to expand...
DEATH

But a lot less than the estimated 40,000 credited with inhabiting the WTC and a lot less total dead than ONE crews’ compliment in total on Pearl (in Pearl) – and the Pacific Fleet at sea – with all their carriers.

And yes it would have taken a MASSIVE incident to WAKE up the average American – by the time of the Vietnam War, ye were all sugar puff fairies and doped to high heaven – it takes a massive shock.

Do you, or anyone of your know, that Nikita Kruschev was actually SCARED of the Irish pres, Ted – because in the 1960 missile crisis he, Kennedy, according to Kruschev, would have actually pushed the button. He, Kruschev, was actually playing a game but as he looked into the eyes of Kennedy he had to withdraw to save the World from nuclear conflict – one the Russians would have lost BTW.

Thanks to a communist leader with the dignity to withdraw, we are able to have this discussion – conspiracy theory – you have not even been born yet.

Good luck.
 
gLeckenby said:
In December of 1941 we experienced the same kind of paranoia.
citizens were uprooted from their homes and farms, sent to
detention centers (prison camps by any other name).
Click to expand...
There is an excellent movie called "1941" that shows the hysteria back then. And the Library of Congress has an exhibit of photos "Born Free and Equal" by Ansel Adams, about Japanese-Americans who were deported in California:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/aamhtml/aamhome.html
 
Marshal said:
By the time many of you read this, you will have heard about the
brief scare in D.C. when the White House had to be evacuated
briefly when an unauthorized civilian plane flew too close to the
White House, which is a restricted area. He got an escort from 2
F-16s back to the airport he had left from. You think security's
tight now? Wait till the July 4th weekend.
Click to expand...
YA.. and the 2 F16's were almost 10 minutes to late.... They didnt catch up to the guy untill he had already left the airspace!!!
They should have just left the falcons on the ground and saved the money.

Murph
 
Thordur Arnason said:
At least we will get a lot of great stock photos of local US police
stations in the next few months :)

--
Cheers,

Thordur Arnason
All about DiMAGE - http://www.alldimage.com/
Click to expand...
Screw the police stations.. Get the individual cops that are causing you a problem.. I learned this along time ago.

Even when you throw a party and the police show up, if you photograph them, they are much more likely to be nice.

I have gotten out of tickets before by using this trick. One excuse or another always seems to work.

"oh, I have never seen your states police uniforms. I have a collection of over 30 of them. "snap snap"."
(this seems to change thier attitude)

It can also put their face into a very uncomfortable place on the internet if they so desire to be unproffesional.

Murph
 
I have photographed a little in Eastern Europe in the good old days of communism, and have never been questioned. We tried not to be obtrusive though – and gave up photographing whenever there was a possible sensitive target, like railway stations, bridges, airports, military camps. It was just a matter of commonsense behaviour and a few tips. I would not park to take photos on any European motorway though: I am sure it would cost me a big fine, anywhere.

One point about 9/11: what I find frightening is that for security reasons we know nothing about who, how and most important why. No evidence, no proof, no public hearing.That is not our civilization.

Fabio
 
Ger Bee said:
... Ref this thread and the 9/11

America, your own CIA LIED to you - you ignored or USED warnings
from the Israelis to your advantage – you ignored or used warnings
from MI6 to your advantage. You ignored information that would have
had a half assed regime arrest the culprits by accident – never
mind the abysmal excuse about agencies not talking to each other –
BS.
Click to expand...
Perhaps...
Ger Bee said:
Some eerily common threads surround the bombing of the WTC and
Pearl Harbour – ignored warning – dammit even the invading Japanese
planes we spotted on US radar and instructed to be ignored.
Click to expand...
That was stupid of them I would admit...
Ger Bee said:
In both cases I think your government wanted to be attacked so as
they could rally the nation and declare war against an enemy who
had perpetrated such a dastardly act.
Click to expand...
Someone needed to do something about the taliban. Besides, the USA is still very young and you know how youngsters like to fight.
Ger Bee said:
But, the day to day living in your country seems to have gone
totally bananas.
Click to expand...
No it hasnt. Its just the media who needs to invent a story. My life has not changed even a little and no one I know has either. The only people effected where those in the local area of 911, thier relatives, and a few people on the planes. (I dont mean to undermine the importance and/or the grieving families, but very bad things happen in the world all the time)
Ger Bee said:
Get a grip, USA – spies can use your own
satellites to download anything they want, buy tourist videos and
interactive maps – there is no intelligence that can be usefully
gathered by a tourist’s snapshot – unlike Pearl pre 1941 where
tourist’s photographs were in reality espionage – we all have moved
on from that a bit – don’t you think?

Have a nice day and please – cool down – the USA is a lovely place.
Click to expand...
Yes it is a nice place ;) I love traveling with my new D60 and taking pictures of it all. As far as cooling down, we Americans like to help other people and we dont mind standing up to the occasional jacka_s who is trampling on peoples human rights. The only problem is that sometimes, in the process of doing this, we tend to step in the wrong place.

Murph
 
Fazal
thanks for that link.
Bob
Fazal Majid said:
gLeckenby said:
In December of 1941 we experienced the same kind of paranoia.
citizens were uprooted from their homes and farms, sent to
detention centers (prison camps by any other name).
Click to expand...
There is an excellent movie called "1941" that shows the hysteria
back then. And the Library of Congress has an exhibit of photos
"Born Free and Equal" by Ansel Adams, about Japanese-Americans who
were deported in California:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/aamhtml/aamhome.html
Click to expand...
 
Stick with your 5 pints of Guinness a day, and Irish business and you'll be better off. Your rambling rant just makes you look ridiculous, as usual.

Maybe those spirits you call up all the time (you know, the ones that scared your dinner guests, and tried to posses you, as you stated in another post, long ago) have screwed up your head? At least stop reading our "National Enquirer". It's anyone's guess why you post such nonsense. But I have a theory about it...
Ger Bee said:
... Ref this thread and the 9/11

America, your own CIA LIED to you - you ignored or USED warnings
from the Israelis to your advantage – you ignored or used warnings
from MI6 to your advantage. You ignored information that would have
had a half assed regime arrest the culprits by accident – never
mind the abysmal excuse about agencies not talking to each other –
BS.

Some eerily common threads surround the bombing of the WTC and
Pearl Harbour – ignored warning – dammit even the invading Japanese
planes we spotted on US radar and instructed to be ignored.

In both cases I think your government wanted to be attacked so as
they could rally the nation and declare war against an enemy who
had perpetrated such a dastardly act.

But, the day to day living in your country seems to have gone
totally bananas. Get a grip, USA – spies can use your own
satellites to download anything they want, buy tourist videos and
interactive maps – there is no intelligence that can be usefully
gathered by a tourist’s snapshot – unlike Pearl pre 1941 where
tourist’s photographs were in reality espionage – we all have moved
on from that a bit – don’t you think?

Have a nice day and please – cool down – the USA is a lovely place.
Click to expand...
--
'Think Outside The Box.........Once you're in the box, it's too late.'

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/
 
Ger Bee Wrote:
Ted B.47613 said:
Ted B.47613 said:
Actually I have no problem with daemons, ghosts spirits, I have had my own run ins with them and the results are repeatable for anyone to try. I would certainly not advice it of course – they are demonic and attempt possessions and one must be on guard against them – or embrace them if that is one’s wish – but I don’t think that would be one’s wish – but once possessed one may not have choice or free will any more.

Now I did say that I believe that all human life is possessed by a spirit – I asked the question if that spirit was a possession or what that what made us who we are. Now I suppose if we take the character changing occult possessions into consideration then the spirit that possesses us is not us – so should we fight it?

Now I will pose an interesting thought – I can – rather I have conjured up a few spirits in my time but I have never managed to conjure up any of the “saints” the ones I drew were inviting (to me) but one hell of a fright to the other people in the room.

As for a battle for one’s soul – you bet that is going on but the more I’ve encountered this the more I realise that none of this is a “creation” it is a wild and consequential thing there is only so much resources to feed the life forces so battles are inevitable. Kneeling and praying to God during such and attack will not get the instant or forceful response that many may think – no white angel will appear and slay anything.

But – but, but, but – that’s just too scary – better believe in something to give the average person some comfort, and the mere fact that the average person can have a positive mental attitude will be enough to prevail – so merely believing in a God or Christ the protector may well actually be enough in itself – just don’t expect too much from the holy water etc.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I rest my case...
 
I hope this is enough...It should be.
Ger Bee said:
Ted B.47613 said:
Posses I had a very similar experience one night - my eight year old started screaming like in the exorcist. I was at a loss but knew what was happening – he was not in any pain but was in terror – I knew it was a daemon attack.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ted B.47613 said:
Ted B.47613 said:
Luckily I sported the cause, just that week our nephew had been killed by a car and my sister-in-law gave our son their dead son’s prize possession. A Starsky and Hutch read and white model car – I knew immediately what I must do – I destroyed the car whilst screaming at (the name of our dead relative) to leave – that’s a prayer if you like – but for me it was a good old daemon fight. I won – my son collapsed into a tranquil sleep – never more to be troubled --- but was it our son or did we loose that battle all those years ago – is my son now forever trapped within a double possession, is his spirit being suppressed by his cousin’s – can’t prove that but I know instinctively that we won.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ted B.47613 said:
Ted B.47613 said:
Brings the hairs standing on the back of my neck just remembering this – I have one more – if the right question pops up I might recount that too. It is hairy it is bizarre but has nothing to do with God as such – it has everything to do with recognising the conditions and taking the appropriate actions. Prayer is known to be powerful stuff – it is the ultimate mind willing and repetitive incantations concentrate and focus that power – this power comes from within – everyone possesses this – one does not have to believe in a God to experience, use or control it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ted B.47613 said:
Ted B.47613 said:
I am aware of the two beings in one body for instance – what I have yet to figure out is which one is me. What do you think – is it the biological collection of DNA or is it the spirit (body less entity) that possesses us – make that me but I don’t believe that I’m unique. This entity imparts gifts that no other animal on this planet in recent history has been detected to possess – except maybe whales and dolphins. One such gift is self-awareness and higher reasoning abilities beyond mere survival skills.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ted B.47613 said:
Ted B.47613 said:
So with two powerful tools at our disposal – the spirit entity possessing us and the extra power of the mind (assuming that science is correct in their determination that we are using just 1/10th the possible or potential power of the mind) – unless of course they are one in the same thing – I doubt we are either being prevented from thinking or guided. I do not know the answer – I do not know who I really am. I think this is a more profound question than the existence of God or not.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ted B.47613 said:
Ted B.47613 said:
I believe that the church is actually correct – except that it is not necessarily their holy spirit or indeed a really benevolent spirit at all. In my own case with my children there was a detachment between us at and soon after birth – I was getting nothing from this lifeform – no feelings – no emotion – just a cold reactionary vessel. I was fortunate that my wife was ill and in hospital and I was able to raise the very young myself and I can state that in front of me I can only describe a possession taking place one evening – the baby shivered and went quite, breathing was shallow and I raised the child concerned, he opened his eyes and I can only describe the feeling that there was LIFE there looking back at me for the first time. I watched this for our last child but missed it – the actual event I mean the event did take place. If I were to describe it brutally – one day there is a slab of cold meat – the next a baby that is mine – I know it and the baby knows it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ted B.47613 said:
Ted B.47613 said:
I also see behavioural changes in my wife and we struggled through a few years – it is not unlike schizophrenia but noting medical was diagnosed and particularly nothing mental was diagnosed – yet my wife did become a different person from time to time. We have cured this condition – whatever it is – by adopting my notion that two people reside in the one body but only one must be “active” – hence my own concern as to who is really who. Anytime I’d see the other emerging again I’d simply say to her that that’s your other self and she’d snap out of it – I call it retaking control.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Ger Bee said:
Some eerily common threads surround the bombing of the WTC and
Pearl Harbour – ignored warning – dammit even the invading Japanese
planes we spotted on US radar and instructed to be ignored.
Click to expand...
The are no common threads in the bombing of WTC and
Pearl Harbor. On one hand a country attacked us, the
other by a groups a fanatics. We already knew that this was
possible, we already knew that the chances of an attack
in America was %100. The Japanese attack a miltary target and
I guess Ger Bee believes that the WTC was a military target.
That is the common thread? Get real Ger Bee!

I guess the U.S. wanted the first attack on the WTC too! Or the
bombing of US Embassies and the attack on the Cole. The U.S. had it
all planned out. Before the start of W.W.II, the U.S. wanted
Japan attack so we could defeat Germany first. How lucky for the U.S.
that Germany declare war on us. By Ger Bee ill rational thinking
this was all planned by the U.S. We were lied by our government
because Ger Bee knows the truth and the only truth.

Ger Bee has a problem with anyone in authority. If I was you Ger Bee
stick to calling all the police in your country corrput, you just look
silly when you do that. Now you have your foot in your mouth when
you claim that the U.S. wanted the WTC attacked.

Bill
Ger Bee said:
... Ref this thread and the 9/11

America, your own CIA LIED to you - you ignored or USED warnings
from the Israelis to your advantage – you ignored or used warnings
from MI6 to your advantage. You ignored information that would have
had a half assed regime arrest the culprits by accident – never
mind the abysmal excuse about agencies not talking to each other –
BS.

Some eerily common threads surround the bombing of the WTC and
Pearl Harbour – ignored warning – dammit even the invading Japanese
planes we spotted on US radar and instructed to be ignored.

In both cases I think your government wanted to be attacked so as
they could rally the nation and declare war against an enemy who
had perpetrated such a dastardly act.

But, the day to day living in your country seems to have gone
totally bananas. Get a grip, USA – spies can use your own
satellites to download anything they want, buy tourist videos and
interactive maps – there is no intelligence that can be usefully
gathered by a tourist’s snapshot – unlike Pearl pre 1941 where
tourist’s photographs were in reality espionage – we all have moved
on from that a bit – don’t you think?

Have a nice day and please – cool down – the USA is a lovely place.
Click to expand...
 
Fabio Amodeo said:
One point about 9/11: what I find frightening is that for security
reasons we know nothing about who, how and most important why. No
evidence, no proof, no public hearing.That is not our civilization.
Click to expand...
Let me help you

Who: al Qaeda

Proof: The World Trade Center, all there is a now a big hole in
the ground. So I am asking you to believe me that there where
two skyscapers there full of people

Public hearing: Plenty if you choose to read and newspaper.

Why? Well did the Jews ask the **** why they were being sent to a
death camp. Or maybe the **** are evil like al Qaeda.
Fabio Amodeo said:
That is not our civilization
Click to expand...
Well you can answer to your new masters, al Qaeda, if we loss.

Bill
 
Hi WIlliam

A couple of things. Just the fact that someone asks for proof is not an illigitimate question. In the Muslim world all sorts of theories abound. The problem with these theroies is Osama bin Laden himself. All these people listen to Al Jizzera. So Osama gets up and release three tapes where he did everything but say I did it. He praised to suicide pilots. He promised more planes, he promised other attacks. The only thing he actually didn't do was say point blank that he did it.

No one has to believe the tape the government released. Personally I do but I would concede that our goverment is capable of forging such a tape.

What kills me is that the people who listen to Al Jizzera about the whole thing being a CIA plot etc, who use Al jizzera for all their news absolutely ignore the intervierws which bin Laden himeself released.

Finally, I disagree with your last point, "what if we lose." We can't lose, we're confronted with a handfull of fanatics who are dangerous to individuals but not a threat to America. This of course is the difference between WWll and this mess.

I personally am appalled that many Americans are running around in terror and I'm someone who lives in what was the frozen zone and saw the towers burn.

Americans are being urged to stand up but the goverment is urging us to hide under the bed - No questions please - Leave everything to us - If you question us your aiding the enemy - You're hurting the war effort and so on ad nauseum.

Dave
William C said:
Member said:
One point about 9/11: what I find frightening is that for security
reasons we know nothing about who, how and most important why. No
evidence, no proof, no public hearing.That is not our civilization.
Click to expand...
Let me help you

Who: al Qaeda

Proof: The World Trade Center, all there is a now a big hole in
the ground. So I am asking you to believe me that there where
two skyscapers there full of people

Public hearing: Plenty if you choose to read and newspaper.

Why? Well did the Jews ask the **** why they were being sent to a
death camp. Or maybe the **** are evil like al Qaeda.
Member said:
That is not our civilization
Click to expand...
Well you can answer to your new masters, al Qaeda, if we loss.

Bill
Click to expand...
 
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