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Canon can't win with a 5D replacement

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Werecow

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People will want a really good AF system in the replacement (i would anyway if i was to get it). It's inevitable it'll be compared to the D700 which has the same AF as the D3 as well as the sensor, Nikon actually giving customers value for money instead of intentionally crippling their lower models.

Canon can't do that with the 5D successor though because that would mean having to do one of two things..
  1. 1 Using the mk3's AF system, which has been disastrous for Canon already in the 1D series.
  1. 2 Using an AF system which is more reliable than the mk3's. Which Canon won't do either as it'll render the mk3 null and void.
The only thing i can think of which would stem the flow of customers to Nikon would be for them to release a new 1D camera and a 5D replacement at the same time, with pretty much the same internals like the D3 - D700 relationship.
I really don't believe they'll do that either. Though i hope so.

All this leads me to believe Canon's response is going to be seriously disappointing.

I'm really annoyed at canon's attitude towards its customer base the last few years that has led to this situation. I'm betting the luke-warm upgrades are going to continue for the 5D line.
 
Werecow said:
  1. 1 Using the mk3's AF system, which has been disastrous for Canon
already in the 1D series.
  1. 2 Using an AF system which is more reliable than the mk3's. Which
Canon won't do either as it'll render the mk3 null and void.
Click to expand...
AF is 1D3/1Ds3 works fine in real life (as opposed to the internet world of the truly stupid.) I'm afraid you have no idea what you are talking about.

The rest of your post doesn't merit response - it's drivel.
 
What's the point of this thread?

You know nothing, NOTHING of Canon's plans, or lack thereof, for a 5D replacement.

To speculate with such certainty. . . I just don't get it.

Yes, those of us who have been loyal to Canon for the last few years are impatient now that the shoe is on the other foot, and Nikon has pulled ahead of Canon in body development. Will Nikon stay ahead? Will Canon catch up or pass Nikon?

You don't know, and I don't either, so why don't we just wait and see, rather than proclaiming Canon dead before they've even had a chance to join the battle?

Paul
 
You're already set up to be seriously disappointed about a camera that you, and I, know nothing about. And, speaking of knowing nothing about a topic, Canon's future strategy is also an unknown to us.

I think that you are seriously in need of A Life or at least a bit of mature critical thinking. If you are really annoyed at Canon then buy somebody else's brand. That'll teach 'em!
 
Why do you think Canon "cannot" do anything? They can do what ever they want: Make a really GOOD camera, even it's not good for 1-series ..
OR ....- just sit on his fut ass and go exactly were Pan American is ...
I don't care ANYMORE !! We have Nikon, Sony will be there soon ...
Why we have to think about Canon?
----------------------
Werecow said:
People will want a really good AF system in the replacement (i would
anyway if i was to get it). It's inevitable it'll be compared to the
D700 which has the same AF as the D3 as well as the sensor, Nikon
actually giving customers value for money instead of intentionally
crippling their lower models.

Canon can't do that with the 5D successor though because that would
mean having to do one of two things..
  1. 1 Using the mk3's AF system, which has been disastrous for Canon
already in the 1D series.
  1. 2 Using an AF system which is more reliable than the mk3's. Which
Canon won't do either as it'll render the mk3 null and void.

The only thing i can think of which would stem the flow of customers
to Nikon would be for them to release a new 1D camera and a 5D
replacement at the same time, with pretty much the same internals
like the D3 - D700 relationship.
I really don't believe they'll do that either. Though i hope so.

All this leads me to believe Canon's response is going to be
seriously disappointing.

I'm really annoyed at canon's attitude towards its customer base the
last few years that has led to this situation. I'm betting the
luke-warm upgrades are going to continue for the 5D line.
Click to expand...
 
I was simply comparing what Nikon have with the D3 and the D700 and what people's expectations will be for the new camera when looking at Nikon. Its not possible for canon to eclipse that in the consumer's eyes without releasing 2 models is all i'm saying. Jeeze.

I have no wish to own a 5D replacement camera so i'm not set up to hate the camera as someone said.

If you think its drivel then so be it. Now i remember why i didn't bother posting here for years.
 
1) Well, I wouldn't give the original poster such a hard time, as I thought his post was OK ..... I mean the purpose of this forum is to talk about Canon cameras, including speculation, or at least that's what I see in dozens of other threads .... the original poster never said he knew "for sure", and I think his point or thoughts that it would be difficult and unlikely that Canon's new 5D would use same AF and sensor as the 1D line, as the couple nikon cameras do, was good or OK

2) If he's correct, and the new 5D is NOT as "great" as the new Nikon, I for one won't mind too much, IF the price is relatively low. Rather than facing buying a 3 year old 5D, I will be quite happy with getting an update "of some sorts", but it does not have to be fantastic bells and whistles (at high cost).

I just want an option in Canon's line where I can get full frame, at reasonable or relatively low cost (say lower than (or for sure no more than) the current 5D price). Better autofocus and better low ISO performance are probably the only two improvements I care about -- anything else unecessarily increases the price as far as I am concerned.
 
Thankyou...

The most important thing i want in a camera is reliable AI Servo so maybe my viewpoint is different to others.

All i want is a new 1D i don't have to really worry about spending so much money on when i upgrade from my mk2.

Yes i didn't mean to be stating something. I was just logically thinking about Canon's options
 
Werecow said:
Canon can't do that with the 5D successor though because that would
mean having to do one of two things..
  1. 1 Using the mk3's AF system, which has been disastrous for Canon
already in the 1D series.
Click to expand...
The focusing of the 1D3 looks pretty much fixed and resolved now.
Werecow said:
  1. 2 Using an AF system which is more reliable than the mk3's. Which
Canon won't do either as it'll render the mk3 null and void.
Click to expand...
No because they are unlikely to put a CPU dedicated just to focusing like in the 1-series models so you can drop in the focusing but it won't have the ai-servo performance of the 1D and 1Ds lines.
Werecow said:
The only thing i can think of which would stem the flow of customers
to Nikon would be for them to release a new 1D camera and a 5D
replacement at the same time, with pretty much the same internals
like the D3 - D700 relationship.
Click to expand...
Canon won't do that and they don't need to do that. nikon did what they did with the d300/d700/d3 in order to catch buyers. They cut deeply the sales of their d3 by the two lesser models. The d300 was a aps-c sensor d3 that is you pay $200 more for the vertical grip you get just 1fps less than the d3 for $3000 less and the d700 is a d3 with sensor cleaner, with popup flash for $1800 less and 1fps less if you get it with the vertical grip.

The d3x will come soon probaly at $5000 or $6000 followed by a $3000 d800 with the same d3x sensor.

Canon makes excellent cameras and a better lens lineup than nikon, a good customer base, and has no need to sell a lexus for the price of a Camry.
 
Badbatz said:
Werecow said:
  1. 1 Using the mk3's AF system, which has been disastrous for Canon
already in the 1D series.
  1. 2 Using an AF system which is more reliable than the mk3's. Which
Canon won't do either as it'll render the mk3 null and void.
Click to expand...
AF is 1D3/1Ds3 works fine in real life (as opposed to the internet
world of the truly stupid.) I'm afraid you have no idea what you are
talking about.

The rest of your post doesn't merit response - it's drivel.
Click to expand...
Tell that to the masses of pros moving to nikon which also influences the general consumer.

I was logically working through canon's options for actually avoiding disappointing people now that nikon have upped the stakes.

You seem to be the one who has no idea what you're talking about if you think the Mk3 AF issue hasn't massively contributed to the swing to nikon.

I couldn't care less if canon disappoints with it. I'm just looking to upgrade my 1D mk2 when it doesn't seem like a lottery to get a reliable unit.

Do you actually have any manners with how you talk to people in real life?
 
RedFox88 said:
Werecow said:
Canon can't do that with the 5D successor though because that would
mean having to do one of two things..
  1. 1 Using the mk3's AF system, which has been disastrous for Canon
already in the 1D series.
Click to expand...
The focusing of the 1D3 looks pretty much fixed and resolved now.
RedFox88 said:
  1. 2 Using an AF system which is more reliable than the mk3's. Which
Canon won't do either as it'll render the mk3 null and void.
Click to expand...
No because they are unlikely to put a CPU dedicated just to focusing
like in the 1-series models so you can drop in the focusing but it
won't have the ai-servo performance of the 1D and 1Ds lines.
RedFox88 said:
The only thing i can think of which would stem the flow of customers
to Nikon would be for them to release a new 1D camera and a 5D
replacement at the same time, with pretty much the same internals
like the D3 - D700 relationship.
Click to expand...
Canon won't do that and they don't need to do that. nikon did what
they did with the d300/d700/d3 in order to catch buyers. They cut
deeply the sales of their d3 by the two lesser models. The d300 was
a aps-c sensor d3 that is you pay $200 more for the vertical grip you
get just 1fps less than the d3 for $3000 less and the d700 is a d3
with sensor cleaner, with popup flash for $1800 less and 1fps less if
you get it with the vertical grip.

The d3x will come soon probaly at $5000 or $6000 followed by a $3000
d800 with the same d3x sensor.

Canon makes excellent cameras and a better lens lineup than nikon, a
good customer base, and has no need to sell a lexus for the price of
a Camry.
Click to expand...
So you really think Canon will be able to sell a 1DsMIII for $8000.00 when/if nikon brings out a D3X for the price you stated? You must be kidding. The only reason they were able to do this for so long was that there wasn't competion. Those days are long gone.
 
Werecow said:
You seem to be the one who has no idea what you're talking about if
you think the Mk3 AF issue hasn't massively contributed to the swing
to nikon.
Click to expand...
I saw about half of the pros covering the Olympics were using white lenses when the TV camera panned over that way. I think there is some migration back to Nikon, but not necessarily a massive one, and not necessarily because of the MKIII's well publicized AF issue.

There are many pros who started out with Nikon and were really forced to switch to Canon because Nikon did not have USM lenses, image stabilization or cameras with sensors larger than 1.5x crop. These issues have all been addressed by Nikon in the last few years, and Nikon has a full frame sports camera, which has allowed it to leapfrog Canon's 1D MKIII in sensor size. Hence those who were more comfortable working with Nikon are tempted to switch back to Nikon.

I believe Canon should replace the 1DMKIII with a full frame model asap to remain competitive. I think it will do that eventually because it understands the advantage of a larger sensor for the sports market. The sooner Canon does it, the better it is for both Canon and those pros who use Canon equipment.
 
Since the olympics are on fire, I think it's pointless to come up with new announcents at this point either for a 5d replacement or new 1d. It's too late.

Nikon has been very smart, they released two full frames and made them available very quickly at the right time. Before the olympics. Anything after the olympics is just too late.
 
scottjj said:
You're already set up to be seriously disappointed about a camera
that you, and I, know nothing about. And, speaking of knowing
nothing about a topic, Canon's future strategy is also an unknown to
us.

I think that you are seriously in need of A Life or at least a bit of
mature critical thinking. If you are really annoyed at Canon then
buy somebody else's brand. That'll teach 'em!
Click to expand...
To the contrary...this was one of the FEW thoughtful 5D posts.

Personally I think he's on the right track in terms of implications.
No frothing in his post... Simply some thought.

Yours, on the other hand...was just another reflex post that required no thought whatsoever...

I hope you feel better, though.
;)

--
-----------------
A few Markuson Images...
Look-see at:
http://www.pbase.com/markuson
 
Many pros are switching to Nikon and it's for two reasons:

1) Canon's less than stellar response to the AF issue on the 1D Mk3. Whether or not it's fixed now, 18 months after the camera came out, is almost moot. It was a problem for a long time and a lot of folks just gave up waiting for Canon to answer the complaints.

2) The folks who switched to Canon because Nikon's digital offerings were terrible (D2h anyone?) are going back to Nikon.

But what doesn't get talked about much is persistent rumors that Nikon is quietly buying Canon gear from newspapers and photo agencies and replacing it with Nikon. I've heard this from two sources (one very large US paper and one European wire service). It's a part of Nikon's effort to regain the #1 title. Nikon hopes to use the dominance in the pro market to leverage sales in the amateur market just has Canon has done for years.

jack

--
A few of my photos:
http://web.mac.com/kurtzjack/ or
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=4177
 
Badbatz said:
Werecow said:
  1. 1 Using the mk3's AF system, which has been disastrous for Canon
already in the 1D series.
  1. 2 Using an AF system which is more reliable than the mk3's. Which
Canon won't do either as it'll render the mk3 null and void.
Click to expand...
AF is 1D3/1Ds3 works fine in real life (as opposed to the internet
world of the truly stupid.) I'm afraid you have no idea what you are
talking about.
Click to expand...
It's posts like yours that keep me speaking up about just how screwed up many 1D3's STILL are. While it may be true that SOME people don't know how to use their 1D3's, and that for them, they may have a copy that works...I can ASSURE YOU that there are PLENTY out there that still don't.

There are people with problems still. Go read the 24-70 with 1Ds3 thread and you'll see not amateurs...but pros who know what they he-- they're doing...and know what their camera is NOT doing. It's real, and no amount of denial will change that.

--
-----------------
A few Markuson Images...
Look-see at:
http://www.pbase.com/markuson
 
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