which flash to buy?

Foredeck · Aug 11, 2008

I have a Canon 350D camera with kit lens (18-55). It takes great pictures and cant complain, but want to take it to the next level.

Most of my photography is about my little girl, and most of it is indoor.

I think a flash would bring up my pictures up a notch. There's nothing really wrong with the pictures, they just aren't up there in quality as professional photographers, and even pictures taken with a better camera, lens or with a flash.

The problem is that I have a fairly tight budget. so, price would be my #1 criteria.

Is it worth spending more on a canon flash? I was looking at a Sigma EF-500 or a Canon 430EX.

dnorrishill · Aug 11, 2008

I have the 430EX and can thoroughly recommend it. I agonised for ages, but have been very happy with the results.

Like you I have small children and wanted to improve those christmas and birthday shots that always looked a bit dull or had lots of shadows. The one revalation was angling the flash upwards and bouncing the light off the ceiling - totally diffrent and 100 times better.

GreenPig · Aug 11, 2008

I had the same question about 6 months ago. I went for the Sigma EF-530 DG SUPER.
At the time of looking it was £148 - the same as the Canon 430EX.

On the plus side, the Sigma has more flexibility (tilt/rotate/wireless) and a little bit more range (although 530 vs 430 is not a massive jump). The only thing I was concerned about was build quality - all comments suggested it was poor .... well, thats not true - I find it to be a very good quality unit and, unless you intend dropping it, it should be fine.

jrscls · Aug 11, 2008

Definitely, the 430EX.

MacXTi · Aug 11, 2008

I see that sometime this month Canon is coming out with the 439ex II. Does anyone know when this will come out and if it has any must have features that the 430ex doesn't? Is it worth the wait and extra $$?

tgelston · Aug 12, 2008

I too can highly recommend the (430) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AO3L84?ie=UTF8&tag=gelstoncafeco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000AO3L84 Pics inside of my two kids are sooo much better. Point it at the ceiling to fill the room with light or drop down the diffuser and point it right at them. No more Red-eye too.

It looks like the newer model recycles faster (shorter time between shots) by about 20% doesn't seem that different too me. Not sure it is worth the extra 100.

Do get yourself some good rechargeable batteries like http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SST7Q?ie=UTF8&tag=gelstoncafeco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0002SST7Q

--
Tobias
http://gelstoncafe.com

highpriest · Aug 12, 2008

Foredeck said:
Most of my photography is about my little girl, and most of it is
indoor.

A flash is worth it's weight in gold if most of your photography is indoors. It can completely transform your indoor photographs. I have the 430EX which I bounce off the ceiling for indoor shots.

Some examples:

Go for it!

Cheers
HighPriest

Claire Dupuis · Aug 12, 2008

Congrats on your cam, and YES the use of an external flash bounce and/or swivelled will plain change your photographic life ;o)

I was really opposed to using flash before, but though I buy a lot of gear year round the 430EX has been the BEST buy I did in 2007 !!

It's a great flash very simple to use, way powerful enough to use with a Rebel and it can be found at very fair prices. I got mine minty on FM forum, but there are a lot of excellent units on eBay as well, especially now that the MkII version is out.

Have fun !!
Claire
--
Why make the same mistakes again when there are so many new ones to chose from ?

sumo33 · Aug 12, 2008

Yup 430EX for me. I have it and it performs brilliantly for shooting kids/people indoors.

SUMO

400D, 17-85IS, 70-200L f4, Manfr. 190XBpr0 & 420MG, 430EX
http://www.bsp.ie

LoneBiker · Aug 12, 2008

HighPriest,

Wow, nice shots. May I ask what's the Camera/Lens (I already know which flash

used?

Thanks.

xzebra · Aug 12, 2008

I have this flash and love it. It will do what you are wanting to do.

tgelston said:
I too can highly recommend the (430)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AO3L84?ie=UTF8&tag=gelstoncafeco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000AO3L84 Pics inside of my two kids are sooo much better. Point it at the ceiling to fill the room with light or drop down the diffuser and point it right at them. No more Red-eye too.

It looks like the newer model recycles faster (shorter time between
shots) by about 20% doesn't seem that different too me. Not sure it
is worth the extra 100.

These are the best batteries hands down. Do your self a favor and make sure you get these with your flash. They last a long time.

tgelston said:
Do get yourself some good rechargeable batteries like

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SST7Q?ie=UTF8&tag=gelstoncafeco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0002SST7Q

One more thing. Get a Sto-Fen OMEY Omni-Bounce Diffuser. You will not want to point your flash directly at your subject.

Here is the link for it - http://www.amazon.com/Sto-Fen-OM-EY-OMEY-Omni-Bounce-Diffuser/dp/B0007DDK7A/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1218582302&sr=8-1

tgelston said:
--
Tobias
http://gelstoncafe.com

--
~~Kevin~~

xzebra · Aug 12, 2008

Your flash photos are a bit better than mine, how do you set your camera up while shooting with flash? (Mode, Shutter, Aperture, Flash settings, ISO)

highpriest said:
Foredeck said:

Most of my photography is about my little girl, and most of it is
indoor.

Click to expand...

A flash is worth it's weight in gold if most of your photography is
indoors. It can completely transform your indoor photographs. I have
the 430EX which I bounce off the ceiling for indoor shots.

Some examples:

Go for it!

Cheers
HighPriest

--
~~Kevin~~

highpriest · Aug 12, 2008

LoneBiker said:
Wow, nice shots. May I ask what's the Camera/Lens (I already know
which flash used?

Thanks! All were taken with the 400D. The second picture is using the 85mm f/1.8. All the rest are with my current favourite lens - the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 (all pictures should have their exif intact).

Cheers
HighPriest

highpriest · Aug 12, 2008

xzebra said:
Your flash photos are a bit better than mine, how do you set your
camera up while shooting with flash? (Mode, Shutter, Aperture, Flash
settings, ISO)

Thanks Kevin. I always use M mode while shooting with the flash. Set the ISO to 200 (sometimes 400), shutter speed between 1/80 and 1/125 (depending on subject, lens, conditions etc - faster for the 85mm, as low as 1/50 works for fairly static subjects with the Sigma 30mm) and aperture between 1.8 and 2.8.

Shooting active kids with a wide open aperture is a bit hit and miss due to the wafer thin DOF - plus I like a slightly deeper DOF for portraits. A fast, sharp prime also helps tremendously (I have the 85mm 1.8 and the Sigma 30mm 1.4).

Set the flash to vertical bounce position or sometimes at 60 deg or 45 deg depending on subject distance to get a better angle of light. I usually leave the FEC to +1. If the images turn out too bright, I reduce it to +2/3.

I always shoot RAW, adjust exposure, convert using DPP or Lightroom, transfer to Photoshop, adjust levels, curves for contrast, resize, sharpen and save as jpeg. Pretty basic PP work as my Photoshop skills are quite rudimentary.

Hope this helps!

Cheers
HighPriest

xzebra · Aug 12, 2008

Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate your help.

I use just about the same settings but your photos seem to be brighter and sharper than mine. A lot of what I am having problems with is trying to shot my daughter that just turned one. She is always moving which is so hard to get a good clear photo of her. I get maybe one good picture out of a couple of dozen and this makes it frustrating.

highpriest said:
xzebra said:

Your flash photos are a bit better than mine, how do you set your
camera up while shooting with flash? (Mode, Shutter, Aperture, Flash
settings, ISO)

Click to expand...

Thanks Kevin. I always use M mode while shooting with the flash. Set
the ISO to 200 (sometimes 400), shutter speed between 1/80 and 1/125
(depending on subject, lens, conditions etc - faster for the 85mm, as
low as 1/50 works for fairly static subjects with the Sigma 30mm) and
aperture between 1.8 and 2.8.

Shooting active kids with a wide open aperture is a bit hit and miss
due to the wafer thin DOF - plus I like a slightly deeper DOF for
portraits. A fast, sharp prime also helps tremendously (I have the
85mm 1.8 and the Sigma 30mm 1.4).

Set the flash to vertical bounce position or sometimes at 60 deg or
45 deg depending on subject distance to get a better angle of light.
I usually leave the FEC to +1. If the images turn out too bright, I
reduce it to +2/3.

I always shoot RAW, adjust exposure, convert using DPP or Lightroom,
transfer to Photoshop, adjust levels, curves for contrast, resize,
sharpen and save as jpeg. Pretty basic PP work as my Photoshop skills
are quite rudimentary.

Hope this helps!

Cheers
HighPriest

--
~~Kevin~~

AppleChap · Aug 12, 2008

I would say 1 keeper out of 24 is actually not bad. Remember the old saying, 1 keeper out of a film role?

As HighPriest suggested, you might try a faster lens and a higher ISO to make it more sharp. Information about your gear, a couple of samples with EXIF would enable others to suggest something better.

Cheers,
AppleChap

xzebra said:
Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate your help.

I use just about the same settings but your photos seem to be
brighter and sharper than mine. A lot of what I am having problems
with is trying to shot my daughter that just turned one. She is
always moving which is so hard to get a good clear photo of her. I
get maybe one good picture out of a couple of dozen and this makes
it frustrating.

highpriest · Aug 13, 2008

xzebra said:
I use just about the same settings but your photos seem to be
brighter and sharper than mine. A lot of what I am having problems
with is trying to shot my daughter that just turned one. She is
always moving which is so hard to get a good clear photo of her. I
get maybe one good picture out of a couple of dozen and this makes
it frustrating.

Which lenses do you use? You cannot beat primes for sharpness and contrast. How high is the ceiling? That might be a factor for brightness. Try playing around with FEC till you hit that sweet spot.

I know exactly what you mean. Kids are very challenging to photograph indoors. They don't sit still for even an instant! Try a slightly higher shutter speed and ensure the camera doesn't shake while you release the shutter.

Here's another example of my 5 month old nephew. Excuse the rather extreme high key processing, I kinda like it though ;-)

400D + 85mm f/1.8 @ f/2.8, 1/125, ISO200, +1 FEC, 430EX bounced off the ceiling

Cheers
HighPriest

xzebra · Aug 13, 2008

highpriest said:
xzebra said:

I use just about the same settings but your photos seem to be
brighter and sharper than mine. A lot of what I am having problems
with is trying to shot my daughter that just turned one. She is
always moving which is so hard to get a good clear photo of her. I
get maybe one good picture out of a couple of dozen and this makes
it frustrating.

Click to expand...

Which lenses do you use?

Canon 28-105mm f3.5-4.5

highpriest said:
You cannot beat primes for sharpness and
contrast.

That is one thing I have noticed. I just cannot get my photos to snap with sharpness that others get. I don't know if it is my lens or just me.

highpriest said:
How high is the ceiling?

I have vaulted ceilings and I believe that they are 12ft in the center.

highpriest said:
That might be a factor for
brightness. Try playing around with FEC till you hit that sweet spot.

I know exactly what you mean. Kids are very challenging to photograph
indoors. They don't sit still for even an instant! Try a slightly
higher shutter speed and ensure the camera doesn't shake while you
release the shutter.

Here's another example of my 5 month old nephew. Excuse the rather
extreme high key processing, I kinda like it though ;-)

400D + 85mm f/1.8 @ f/2.8, 1/125, ISO200, +1 FEC, 430EX bounced off
the ceiling

Another great shot. How did you discolor your nephew?

highpriest said:
Cheers
HighPriest

--
~~Kevin~~

highpriest · Aug 13, 2008

xzebra said:
Canon 28-105mm f3.5-4.5

I've never used that lens so cannot comment on it's abilities. However, I've used my 17-85 for indoor flash shots as well and have got pretty decent results. But nothing close to what I can get from the primes.

xzebra said:
That is one thing I have noticed. I just cannot get my photos to
snap with sharpness that others get. I don't know if it is my lens
or just me.

Do you shoot RAW or JPEG? How much processing do you do on your pictures? I always sharpen using USM. Post a few samples with EXIF intact so we can figure out what's going on.

xzebra said:
I have vaulted ceilings and I believe that they are 12ft in the center.

A white ceiling works best. The flash should be pretty effective at that height I would have thought. Hmm...

xzebra said:
Another great shot. How did you discolor your nephew?

Used a Lightroom preset called "Cold Tone" for that effect. Tweaked it till I got it the way I wanted. Added a bit of vignetting, adjusted exposure, exported to Photoshop and did the rest of the processing.

Cheers
HighPriest

Bruce Edwards · Aug 13, 2008

Every time I see someone like highpriest post spectacular indoor shots w/flash like that, it makes me think 'I HAVE to buy a flash!" Just awesome shots.

Exposure is almost perfect in all, and it looks to be perfect in that last one (self portrait?)

Great stuff.

How about the smallest/least expensive Canon flash? Anyone use that? I prefer a smaller unit personally, than the 430.

which flash to buy?

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