father called a "pervert" for photographing own children in park

This was always the same problem: the refuse to see the reality and because of this, not to change or to improve the reality. Under the oppression of the communists or free, the Romanians, that I have a lot sympathy, understanding, that I know their language, literature and history better than many others, refused to see their problems and by consequence not to change the reality economic and social. This is why the best of Romanian elite is outside their country.
"România este o ţară într-o criză perpetuă" Poincarre

dccdp said:

No, Mirel, I don't want to continue this discussion on a photography
forum. It's obvious you are biased, and it is understandable because
of your suffering. This is why I won't take offense in your
simplistic characterization of an entire people. I know this people
better than you, and I also understand that your particular history
can make you despise everything about the country you suffered in.
However, generalizations like the one you just made are no different
than those made by the Nazis about Jews, and this kind of hate makes
me wonder whether the world learned anything from its past.

I'll stop this branch just here, and hope you will see the world in a
more optimistic way.

I'm really sorry for your suffering.

Dan

Click to expand...

--
Mirel

'As photographs give people an imaginary possession of a past that is unreal, they also help people to take possession of space in which they are insecure. '
Susan Sontag

This is getting ridiculous, really. Sorry you're thinking that way...

Thanks for proving my point (about simplistic generalizations) though.

Bye,
Dan

P.S. FYI, we know our faults and work to surpass them, as any other people does. And the 'elite' is formed by the intellectuals that stay here and build, not by those that ran away and complain.

yeah, i agree - World goes crazy.
but, "what can i do ?" (c)
better, that previously did ?
pour some cold beer and light inreally Cuban(!) cigaress *

Ryan Stewart said:

Sorry, never happen. Socialist policies make it very easy to be an
idiot so they thrive and multiply, usually must faster than
responsible, intellegent people because they understand there are
consequences to their actions.

Click to expand...

You mean socialist policies like free education for everyone? Socialist policies like universal health care? Minimum wage? These things cause the populous to become idiots? Sorry, but I'll pit the average Scandinavian teen against the average American teen in an intelligence test (or spelling bee) any day. ;-)

I hope from all my heart that you are right and I am wrong.

I hope that all I wrote about is only a nightmare of past and better be buried there.

If ever you'll want to continue this discussion or if any fact, news, article that you will read may show light that OUR motherland changed, that new people with new ideas are there, I'll be very glad to receive from you on my private email address.
cu prietenie,
Mirel

dccdp said:

This is getting ridiculous, really. Sorry you're thinking that way...

Thanks for proving my point (about simplistic generalizations) though.

Bye,
Dan

P.S. FYI, we know our faults and work to surpass them, as any other
people does. And the 'elite' is formed by the intellectuals that stay
here and build, not by those that ran away and complain.

Click to expand...

--
Mirel

'As photographs give people an imaginary possession of a past that is unreal, they also help people to take possession of space in which they are insecure. '
Susan Sontag

jezsik said:

Ryan Stewart said:

Sorry, never happen. Socialist policies make it very easy to be an
idiot so they thrive and multiply, usually must faster than
responsible, intellegent people because they understand there are
consequences to their actions.

Click to expand...

You mean socialist policies like free education for everyone?

Click to expand...

.....Yeah, like that. Where did you get the notion that public education was "free"..?? I take it you are a tax fraud..?

jezsik said:

Socialist policies like universal health care?

Click to expand...

.....Yeah, like that... Someone people will be forced to pay for that, while others will simply leach off the system, and the service will be worse than what it is like in Cuba:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25_RgM1jHeo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-8TcpOz6A4&feature=related

Minimum wage?

.....Useless. Most employers pay far above the minimum wage to compete for better employees. I'll bet you weren't aware of that, were you?

In fact, when I was a kid, I was hurt by a minimum wage increase, because my co-workers who didn't work as hard as I was, got an automatic raise, while I worked for mine, and when the min. wage went up, my pay did not increase! Not to mention that the cost of living adjusts every time the minimum wage increases.

These

jezsik said:

things cause the populous to become idiots?

Click to expand...

....Yes. Look at what welfare has done! We've created a way of life for those dependent on use to pay for their shelter, food, clothing, medical, and transportation needs, yet many of those people don't even try to better themselves.

Sorry, but I'll pit the

jezsik said:

average Scandinavian teen against the average American teen in an
intelligence test (or spelling bee) any day. ;-)

Click to expand...

....Sure, put him up against a home schooled child, not one who is a "graduate" of our public school system, where we have drop out rates in some school districts that are higher than the portion of the class that graduates!

Before you begin ripping into me, I thought Id mention that I used to be an idiot too. ;-)

JP

--
http://www.Myspace.com/JPphotographer

just a couple of weeks ago I took my camera to our local public pool to take some shots of my kids during swim lessons, like I had done the previous day, and the year before. For some reason, on this occassion, the pool manager approached me to ask if I had kids there. I was a little snippy with him and insured him that I did have my kids in swim classes. I probably did look a little odd walking from group to group snapping photos since each of my kids is in a different swim class.

Anyway, my wife scolded me for being snippy, I apologized the next day (with camera in hand) to the pool manager and thanked him for insuring that some pervert wasn't taking pictures of my kids.

In someways it's a tough situation all around.

Peace,
John



--

'The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ' George Bernard Shaw

'Believe Nothing, no matter where you read it
or who has said it, not even if I have said it,
unless it agrees with your own reason and
your own common sense.' -Buddha

Rootbeer said:

Rootbeer said:

You mean socialist policies like free education for everyone?

Click to expand...

.....Yeah, like that. Where did you get the notion that public
education was "free"..?? I take it you are a tax fraud..?

Click to expand...

Oh, please! Save the sophomoric arguments for your home-schooled pedants. Take a close look at what goes on in Scandinavian countries before you start criticizing that which you obviously know so little about.

Rootbeer said:

.....Useless. Most employers pay far above the minimum wage to
compete for better employees. I'll bet you weren't aware of that,
were you?

Click to expand...

What? You mean more people get paid MORE than the minimum legal wage than those who are paid the bare minimum? Astonishing! I mean, you must be some sort of home-schooled statistical GENIUS! And here I thought half the population were paid just the minimum wage. Wow, I'm sooooo glad you set me straight on this!

Rootbeer said:

In fact, when I was a kid, I was hurt by a minimum wage increase,

Click to expand...

Ah, so THIS is the origin of your bias.

jezsik said:

Ryan Stewart said:

Sorry, never happen. Socialist policies make it very easy to be an
idiot so they thrive and multiply, usually must faster than
responsible, intellegent people because they understand there are
consequences to their actions.

Click to expand...

You mean socialist policies like free education for everyone?
Socialist policies like universal health care? Minimum wage? These
things cause the populous to become idiots? Sorry, but I'll pit the
average Scandinavian teen against the average American teen in an
intelligence test (or spelling bee) any day. ;-)

Click to expand...

You forgot policing, rule of law, waste disposal, transport networks, and other niceties that cost tax dollars.

Ryan's focus on tax dollars proves that he is really interested in the thriving of the non-poor, rather than the non-idiot.

Can we get a reality check on this story?

First of all, this (non)story is from The Daily Mail, a populist tabloid. Feather-ruffling stories are their bread and butter.

Second, it was not the police or any other authority who accused him of being a pervert, it was some stupid ticket taker at an amusement park. The cops, when they showed up, were on the side of the photographer.

Third, we know nothing about the people in line who chimed in with the accusations. Maybe they were impatient because this guy was holding up the line. Maybe they were a bunch of midlands tossers who were looking for any excuse to fling some abuse around.

Finally, this case has nothing to do with the law or any kind of legislation. It's just a story about an idiot callings someone names. It has no more authority than if your neighbor looks over the back fence and calls you a pervert because he doesn't like seeing you in a speedo. The fact that she has authority over her slide -- HER SLIDE -- does not make this an authoritative act, or an authoritative story. The Daily Mail only ran the story because it stirs people up and makes them shakes their heads about the decline of this or that, which sells more papers.

And it looks like most of the people in this thread fell for it.

Just in case I haven't made myself clear, there's a big difference between a legal authority pressing a legal action and a stupid cow being an idiot. This story is an example of the second thing, and it doesn't deserve any attention.

--
++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.blork.org/blorkblog/ (blog)
http://www.blork.org/mondaymorning/ (photo blog)
http://mydp1.wordpress.com (blog about Sigma DP1)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blork/ (me on Flickr)

blork said:

...
Just in case I haven't made myself clear, there's a big difference
between a legal authority pressing a legal action and a stupid cow
being an idiot. This story is an example of the second thing, and it
doesn't deserve any attention.

Click to expand...

Sorry, don't quite agree with that. There is a growing attitude against photography inpublic places, and more people think they can stop photographers taking pictures in public places. It's part of the growing post 9/11 paranoia. Unfortunately not all police or security people understand the law correctly either, as seen by many instances of what amounts to harassment. It's good to discuss this, we as photographers need to know our rights, as does the general public and the authorities. If the "stupid cow" as you put it is shown publicly to be wrong maybe it will stop the rest of the ignorant herd from mooing next time you try to take some pictures.

• Anders @ http://www.aobild.com *

Why this irrational fear some parents have of someone taking pictures of their children? And they might even post them on THE INTERNET!!! Does that have some magic properties that makes them suddenly indecent?

Yes - I am a parent - of 6 children including 4 daughters and it doesn't matter to me if someone DOES take their picture - especially with many others in a playground or on a slide. It doesn't capture their soul.

We used to laugh at other cultures who believed that - how could they be so silly! Ha Ha Ha! And now we have parents (and teachers) saying "Don't you know it's illegal to take photos of children". Now who are the silly ones.

Since you're a fan of GBS, I'd encourage you to consult your nearest dictionary, and look up the word 'insure'. Then look up 'assure', and finally 'ensure'. As you're an engineer and therefore a more logical sort, I'm sure you won't be offended.

Oh, and by the way I wouldn't have apologised to the pool manager.

Amy

Having been given the "hard word" for just sitting with my old Dad on a park bench while kids played sport even though we were there before the game start3ed or anyone else was even there I have to disagree. Sporting meeting are notorious for nasty parents, who will take on other people over the game, let alone a "pervert". Stand your ground and you are alone against a bunch of people who are often keyed up and looking for trouble.

Nick

OldNick said:

Having been given the "hard word" for just sitting with my old Dad on
a park bench while kids played sport even though we were there
before the game start3ed or anyone else was even there I have to
disagree. Sporting meeting are notorious for nasty parents, who will
take on other people over the game, let alone a "pervert". Stand your
ground and you are alone against a bunch of people who are often
keyed up and looking for trouble.

Nick

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right Nick!

Where I live, I am not allowed by law to carry a gun to protect myself with, although I have had my life threatened several times while out on assignment. I do however, carry a can of pepper spray, which is legal, and I do have a plan to use it and other methods in case I find myself in a situation where I must defend my life and or property against criminal minded, or "mob mentality" people who are convinced that I post a threat to them by taking pictures, which hasn't hut anyone, ever.

Just think,... the same folks who engage in "road rage" can be found attending an event or place where they may become enraged by the presents of a photographer taking pictures in a lawful manor.

What a krappy world where I fear for my life for simply taking harmless photographs!

JP

--
http://www.Myspace.com/JPphotographer

Why so rude? You just proved his point.
--

jaymc said:

Why so rude?

Click to expand...

Rude? Maybe. Sarcastic? For sure. I do that sometimes.

jaymc said:

You just proved his point.

Click to expand...

I did? What a second, WHICH point did I just prove?

jezsik said:

You mean socialist policies like free education for everyone?
Socialist policies like universal health care? Minimum wage? These
things cause the populous to become idiots? Sorry, but I'll pit the
average Scandinavian teen against the average American teen in an
intelligence test (or spelling bee) any day. ;-)

Click to expand...

How do you think your Scandinavian teen will fare against a typical Obama/Socialist supporter?

OldNick said:

Having been given the "hard word" for just sitting with my old Dad on
a park bench while kids played sport even though we were there
before the game start3ed or anyone else was even there I have to
disagree. Sporting meeting are notorious for nasty parents, who will
take on other people over the game, let alone a "pervert". Stand your
ground and you are alone against a bunch of people who are often
keyed up and looking for trouble.

Click to expand...

Nick,

Nobody told you to confront a group of people, I sure didn't. I said I would not let ONE PERSON call me a pervert for taking pictures of MY OWN CHILDREN, which is what this thread was about in the first place.

If you want to sit on a park bench with your Father and be scared away by a group of sports parents, then I can't do much about that. If you are doing nothing wrong, and you are confronted, you have to make a decision as to how to handle it. I choose to confront it and stand up against those who try to stop me from taking pictures. The rest is your choice.

OldNick said:

Nick

Click to expand...

--
Conrad 'Bye Bye' Birdie
'Aspire to inspire before you expire'.

Rootbeer said:

OldNick said:

Having been given the "hard word" for just sitting with my old Dad on
a park bench while kids played sport even though we were there
before the game start3ed or anyone else was even there I have to
disagree. Sporting meeting are notorious for nasty parents, who will
take on other people over the game, let alone a "pervert". Stand your
ground and you are alone against a bunch of people who are often
keyed up and looking for trouble.

Nick

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right Nick!

What a krappy world where I fear for my life for simply taking
harmless photographs!

Click to expand...

That is YOUR choice then, not a choice that is being forced on you. You are choosing to fear taking photographs. If you are not breaking any laws, if you are not doing something that others might find objectionable to their children or safety, then what is the problem? You state you carry mace around, why? I can't imagine the world you live in that makes you fear something so much.

I could die of a heart attack in 10 minutes. I could be killed driving my car home tonight. Or, I could be attacked and killed inside my own home for no reason, but do I constantly live in fear of that, NO!!!!!!!

It is your choice to live in fear, or live life to the fullest and enjoy it. It is a choice you have to make. But let me help another way if I may. You are going to die at some point, so you might as well enjoy life while you are here, and I will be damned if some paranoid person(s) is going to change me because of THEIR problems. And especially if I am taking photographs of MY CHILDREN.

Take a stand against these types of people, or they will take over every freedom we have left.

Rootbeer said:

JP

--
http://www.Myspace.com/JPphotographer

Click to expand...

--
Conrad 'Bye Bye' Birdie
'Aspire to inspire before you expire'.