Wide lens versus Panoramas - What are the advantages?

JMacedo

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Hi,

I'm thinking to sell my Nikkor 14-24 2.8 and get the 70-200VR instead... am I crazy? Usually I don't do landscapes or interiors and my 14-24 spends most of the time in my bag, not to mention the flare problems. On the other hand, I've seen so many awesome panos in this same forum that I started questioning myself why am I keeping it? Am I just lusting for the 70-200 as I would like to replace the 70-300VR?

I just made this pano D300 & 24-70 and to me looks great, so I wonder what are the advantages of a dedicated wide lens over stitching photos? I'm sorry if I sound stupid. Thanks for your input.



--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com

 
Well, only you can decide.

Pano's might be fine, but sometimes you don't have the time for that (since you don't do landscapes or interiors). And it might be the wide angle can bring out details in your subject together with interesting surroundings - something that's hard to achieve with the 24-70 on a D300.

I would play a little more with the wide angles' capabilities before I'd sell it, if I were you.

I've used the 70-200VR a lot, and it's not immune to flare (to put it mildly). So I wouldn't let the flare issue guide your decision here.
Hi,

I'm thinking to sell my Nikkor 14-24 2.8 and get the 70-200VR
instead... am I crazy? Usually I don't do landscapes or interiors and
my 14-24 spends most of the time in my bag, not to mention the flare
problems. On the other hand, I've seen so many awesome panos in this
same forum that I started questioning myself why am I keeping it? Am
I just lusting for the 70-200 as I would like to replace the 70-300VR?

I just made this pano D300 & 24-70 and to me looks great, so I wonder
what are the advantages of a dedicated wide lens over stitching
photos? I'm sorry if I sound stupid. Thanks for your input.



--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com

--
Best,
Richard.
 
The big advantage of panoramas vs a single wide angle shot is resolution. Bottom line, megapixels do matter. Since I started to routinely shoot panoramas, my nikkor 12-24 gets little use. However, as some have noted, there are times where taking a multi-image panorama is not prudent and thus a wide angle lens comes in handy.

--
Regards

RFC
Pbase Gallery : http://www.pbase.com/rfcd100
Flash Gallery : http://rfcgraphics.com/
 
The 14-24 2.8 should be an excellent lens for producing panos on a D300 - I can't think of a better lens to do this, really (perhaps the AF 14 mm f/2.8 Nikkor ED-RF, depending on who you ask).

While I don't have the 14-24mm of a D300, I do have the 12-24mm Nikkor on a D200. My combination is inferior to yours for shooting panos in many (probably all) respects.

Your example pano is stunning, btw, it has a lot of interesting subject matter and is technically shot very well. However, what if you needed more vertical angle of view? With your current setup, you'd need to a) use a special head, b) shoot multi-row panos, c) spend about 10X more time stitching the result and you'll likely get a product that is less than perfect anyway.

I've shot loads of panos using a variety of lenses and special heads - so far, my best panos have come from using the 12-24mm with my Kaiden VR head on my D200. Here's an example:



3 rows x 12 images for a full spherical panorama (360°x180°) with a D200 and a 12-24mm f/4 DX lens. A Panorama Tools GUI (Hugin) was used for the stitching and the results were stunning. I found only one spot that needed minor photoshopping near the very bottom which needed to be touched up anyway to remove the tripod and Kaidan Kiwi+ Spherical head.

I also use my 10.5mm fisheye DX to shoot panos for extreme vertical even with only 1 row shot:



This was stitched in Hugin from 12 shots from my Nikon D200 + Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8 @f/10, 1.3s, 100. I shot it all in RAW and processed the whole thing in 16 bit TIFFs. 12 shots was probably overkill, but this is a completely flawless stitch, I can't find any mis-alignment at all. Who says wide lenses can't produce a lot of resolution? The original image is 8192x2977 px = 24.3 MPx. That's gonna be enough for almost any print use.

I also did this one in HDR:



This was stitched in Hugin from 2x12 shots from my Nikon D200 + Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8 @f/11, 1/6s & 1/25s, 100. After stitching in Hugin twice, once for each exposure, I merged them with Photomatix Pro into an HDR (High-Dynamic Range) photo, then exported as a tone-compressed, 16-bit TIFF before bringing into Photoshop for minor touchup (dust on sensor) and then into Aperture for exposure adjustments and sharpening. Again, the original has a lot of resolution at 8192x3075 px = 25.2 MPx.

I've also shot a pano with a longer lens - it was very frustrating, and time-consuming, but in the end, I got there.



A spherical taken in multiple rows in Queens, New York, USA. This was exactly 2 weeks after the tragic disaster on 9/11. I'm using the same VR head as the shots above, but I'm using a FujiFilm MX2900 with an equivent of a 34mm lens. It was 5 rows, plus a top and bottom shot for a total of 62 images. Even still, I couldn't get the bottom to work, so I replaced it with a white circle with my copyright (seen when viewing in a VR viewer).

If you really want to pursue making panos, keep the 14-24mm!

The 70-200mm is also a good lens though, so I do understand your pain!
Hi,

I'm thinking to sell my Nikkor 14-24 2.8 and get the 70-200VR
instead... am I crazy? Usually I don't do landscapes or interiors and
my 14-24 spends most of the time in my bag, not to mention the flare
problems. On the other hand, I've seen so many awesome panos in this
same forum that I started questioning myself why am I keeping it? Am
I just lusting for the 70-200 as I would like to replace the 70-300VR?

I just made this pano D300 & 24-70 and to me looks great, so I wonder
what are the advantages of a dedicated wide lens over stitching
photos? I'm sorry if I sound stupid. Thanks for your input.



--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com

--
-- Martin

'Every portrait painted with feeling is a portrait of the artist, not of the sitter. The sitter is merely the accident, the occasion. It is not he who is revealed by the painter; it is rather the painter who, on the coloured canvas, reveals himself.'
  • From 'The picture of Dorian Gray' by Oscar Wilde
 
Hey Jorge. As others have mentioned, this is a technically well done pano. I think I remember you posting this awhile back as your 1st pano.

I would keep the 14-24mm and sell the Nikkor 12-24mm lens (to help fund the 70-200 VR). According to your graphical signature, you own one? There's no need to have both. The 14-24 from what I've read, is superior to the 12-24.

Panos don't always come out perfect and you'd get more detail, in-camera, if you use a wide angle lens for a particular scene.
--
Dez

http://photos.dezmix.com

 
First things first....if you dont want that 14-24.....I have a nice home for it over here.....nice comfey spot in my bag. : )

The 70-300 is a very nice lens...if you dont absolutly use/need the f/2.8 then I would probably stick with the lens you have.

The main reason I would shoot panos and have started shooting panos is for the MP. I can get 40 to 80MP in a pano that isnt too long that give me super huge prints.

Pros = Big prints with little distortion if shooting more normal focal legnths.

Cons = File size, computer working on huge files, Matching files especially in windy shots almost impossable.

Your reasons might be compleatly diffrent....

Roman
--

'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who are we to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous.

Actually, who are we not to be?'

--Marianne Williamson

http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
 
Well, only you can decide.

Pano's might be fine, but sometimes you don't have the time for that
(since you don't do landscapes or interiors). And it might be the
wide angle can bring out details in your subject together with
interesting surroundings - something that's hard to achieve with the
24-70 on a D300.
Very good points here.
I would play a little more with the wide angles' capabilities before
I'd sell it, if I were you.

I've used the 70-200VR a lot, and it's not immune to flare (to put it
mildly). So I wouldn't let the flare issue guide your decision here.
The flare issue it really irritates me, on a sunny day that lens can flare even with the sun almost on my back... I only realized that when I viewed the shots in my computer back in Thailand even though I know the flare is normal for that kind of lens with that huge front element. Please see my post here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1030&message=27471688

In the past three months I took over 5000 pics and just 4 with the 14-24 and now this thing with the panos made me think about the need to keep it...

...but deeply somewhere in my brain I know you're right :)

Thanks
--
Best,
Richard.
--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
The big advantage of panoramas vs a single wide angle shot is
resolution. Bottom line, megapixels do matter. Since I started to
routinely shoot panoramas, my nikkor 12-24 gets little use. However,
as some have noted, there are times where taking a multi-image
panorama is not prudent and thus a wide angle lens comes in handy.
I need to give it another try I guess and to refrain the impulse to get the 70-200 for a while :) Many thanks.
--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
Martin,

Thanks for the very kind comments about my pano. That pano was done hand holding the camera because I had no way to place a tripod there :)).

Your panos are awesome! I did try the 14-24 dor panos but I ended having some distortion and that's why I decided to go for the 24-70. I have lots to learn and probably I will try some with the 14-24 and I will compare with the ones taken with the 24-70.

I have yet to research those pano heads, sometimes is hard to find that kind of more specific stuff here in Thailand and usually they are more expensive than buying in Europe or In the US.

--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
Hi Dez,

Thanks, I'm trying to improve and following some of the suggestions you gave me first time. This pano is similar to the other one. These are a new series of pics taken just minutes apart from the other pano. The old pano can be seen here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1005&message=28262746

12-24? No, I don't have it and it's not listed in my profile... I used to have the Sigma 10-20 and sold it while ago.

Well... I will try to keep the 14-24... I'm being more careful with my expenses since my baby was born... I love the DOF on the 70-200vr and the 70-300vr can't give me the same IQ as the 24-70 for the lightning shots :(

Well, keep enjoying your D300... here is time to feed the baby and change nappies :P

--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
First things first....if you dont want that 14-24.....I have a nice
home for it over here.....nice comfey spot in my bag. : )
Nice try... nice try... lol
The 70-300 is a very nice lens...if you dont absolutly use/need the
f/2.8 then I would probably stick with the lens you have.
Yes, I agree about the 70-300vr being a very nice lens but needs lots of light and is giving me poor results while trying photographing lightning. A crop from the 24-70 is way more detailed and sharper than the 70-300 zoomed in @ 150mm. Also I love the DOF of a excellent piece of 2.8 glass like the 70-200vr.
The main reason I would shoot panos and have started shooting panos
is for the MP. I can get 40 to 80MP in a pano that isnt too long that
give me super huge prints.

Pros = Big prints with little distortion if shooting more normal
focal legnths.

Cons = File size, computer working on huge files, Matching files
especially in windy shots almost impossable.

Your reasons might be compleatly diffrent....
Roman, thank you for your input and for sharing with us your fine art... Love it!
Roman
--
'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is
that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our
darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who are we to be
brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous.

Actually, who are we not to be?'

--Marianne Williamson

http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
Thanks to you, for your kind words too!

I suspect that the trouble you had with your 14mm pano was that you weren't respecting the lens' "nodal point" and that you had distortions due to parallax errors. In theory, if you know where your lens' nodal point is, you can shoot a good pano without expensive heads. I've been able to do this with a fisheye lens on my old Coolpix 5000. I'd tie a string to the lens around the nodal point, and hang a weight about 4 feet from it. When shooting, I'd position the weight just above a memorable spot on the ground, and shoot three shots around, then one straight up and one straight down (sans the string on this one). The resolution was poor due to the circular fisheye on a 5 MP camera, but they'd stitch! Example here:



This is Windsor Castle, in Windsor, UK - the home of Queen Elizabeth II and family on the evening before her 50th Jubilee Parade (hence all the barriers). This was taken - handheld - with a Nikon Coolpix 5000 with a circular fisheye conversion lens (from Nikon). It is composed of 5 shots, 3 towards the horizontal, one directly up and one directly downwards. A 'virtual tripod' was used - in this case, my 8 year old daughter's head simply as a height and ground-spot reference. I kept my camera floating a visual distance above her head with careful consideration to maintain that the lens' nodal point was in the same position between shots.

Anyway, back to your equipment, you should be able to create some a w e s o m e panos with that 14mm on a FX sensor. According to my calculations, you should, in theory, be able to shoot a 180°x360° with only 2 rows (I require 3 rows with the 12mm on DX) plus a up and down shot. Each row should only require about 8 shots with some decent overlap between shots (my setup requires about 12). So, again in theory, whereas my setup requires 3x12+2 = 38 shots, you should only require 2x8+2 = 18 shots. In fact, you might be able to get away with a single row, plus the up and down shots, or only 10 shots. And, at 12 MPs, it'll still come out with some very good resolution - up to about 64MPs. I may be wrong on this, but I'll give you some exact numbers if you let me borrow your gear for a few days :)

Edit: Oops, I was thinking you have an FX sensor, but in fact, you have a DX sensor. So, your panos would be shot similar to mine, but with a larger resulting file-size - as much as 100MPs!
Martin,

Thanks for the very kind comments about my pano. That pano was done
hand holding the camera because I had no way to place a tripod there
:)).

Your panos are awesome! I did try the 14-24 dor panos but I ended
having some distortion and that's why I decided to go for the 24-70.
I have lots to learn and probably I will try some with the 14-24 and
I will compare with the ones taken with the 24-70.

I have yet to research those pano heads, sometimes is hard to find
that kind of more specific stuff here in Thailand and usually they
are more expensive than buying in Europe or In the US.

--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
--
-- Martin

'Every portrait painted with feeling is a portrait of the artist, not of the sitter. The sitter is merely the accident, the occasion. It is not he who is revealed by the painter; it is rather the painter who, on the coloured canvas, reveals himself.'
  • From 'The picture of Dorian Gray' by Oscar Wilde
 
You did a great job stitching a difficult subject (any moving subject like people and water is hard to stitch).

The advantage to stitching is the potential for huge resolution.

The drawbacks are obvious when you've done some image stitching. There's considerable time and effort to stitching compared to just doing a crop from a wide angle single image photo. There's extra work setting up for a stitching series - you can shoot a series without a tripod or level panning platform, but it's easier to stitch tripod supported tiles. Some subjects are impossible to shoot as a panoramic series due to their rapidly changing nature - movement, changing lighting.

--
BJ Nicholls
SLC, UT
 
Here's a hand held pano with built-in proof!



Here's the day of the Jubilee Parade in Windsor... here you can plainly see that I am the tripod! If you load this into pano-viewing software, you can see my face lookup up at the camera as I shoot it.

--
-- Martin

'Every portrait painted with feeling is a portrait of the artist, not of the sitter. The sitter is merely the accident, the occasion. It is not he who is revealed by the painter; it is rather the painter who, on the coloured canvas, reveals himself.'
  • From 'The picture of Dorian Gray' by Oscar Wilde
 
Lots of good info, Martin. I have a lot to learn. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I will keep the lens... and have to convince the wife that I need one more lens ( the 70-200vr) to photograph the babby.... Hope she already forgot I used that same excuse to buy the 24-70...
--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
You did a great job stitching a difficult subject (any moving subject
like people and water is hard to stitch).
Believe it or not, CS3 did the job without any intervention, just cropped a bit at the end. I tried PTGui and there was some heads and arms missing.
The advantage to stitching is the potential for huge resolution.

The drawbacks are obvious when you've done some image stitching.
There's considerable time and effort to stitching compared to just
doing a crop from a wide angle single image photo. There's extra work
setting up for a stitching series - you can shoot a series without a
tripod or level panning platform, but it's easier to stitch tripod
supported tiles. Some subjects are impossible to shoot as a panoramic
series due to their rapidly changing nature - movement, changing
lighting.
Yes, makes sense, I'm keeping the lens. Many thanks.
--
BJ Nicholls
SLC, UT
--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
Here's a hand held pano with built-in proof!



Here's the day of the Jubilee Parade in Windsor... here you can
plainly see that I am the tripod! If you load this into pano-viewing
software, you can see my face lookup up at the camera as I shoot it.
Wow! lol Very creative! Never have seen nothing like that. Brilliant! I don't have pano viewing software but I can imagine the effect. Sometthing new I will have to try. Thanks Martin.
--
-- Martin

'Every portrait painted with feeling is a portrait of the artist, not
of the sitter. The sitter is merely the accident, the occasion. It
is not he who is revealed by the painter; it is rather the painter
who, on the coloured canvas, reveals himself.'
  • From 'The picture of Dorian Gray' by Oscar Wilde
--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
I agree. CS3 does an amazing job! Quick and VERY easy. Butt simple.

The f2.8 70-200 is a great lens, but it is long, heavy and awkward. Not a great walk around lens for this reason - although many use it in this manner.

Lens lust is a very contagious disease. Be careful who you hang around with.

--
Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
http://www.ghost-town-photography.com
 
I agree. CS3 does an amazing job! Quick and VERY easy. Butt simple.
The f2.8 70-200 is a great lens, but it is long, heavy and awkward.
Not a great walk around lens for this reason - although many use it
in this manner.

Lens lust is a very contagious disease. Be careful who you hang
around with.
I know what you mean...

I was happy with my point and shoot camera than, I found the DPReview and I bought the D80 & the 18-135 kit lens, then a macro lens, a couple of sigmas and tamrons, the D300, 70-300-vr, 14-24 2.8, 24-70-2.8, SB600 then the SB800, tripods, heads, more and more bags...etc... etc... etc... well the 70-200 has to be the next one.... :P
--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com
 
How did you get all those people to stand still while you took the shots? :)
Hi,

I'm thinking to sell my Nikkor 14-24 2.8 and get the 70-200VR
instead... am I crazy? Usually I don't do landscapes or interiors and
my 14-24 spends most of the time in my bag, not to mention the flare
problems. On the other hand, I've seen so many awesome panos in this
same forum that I started questioning myself why am I keeping it? Am
I just lusting for the 70-200 as I would like to replace the 70-300VR?

I just made this pano D300 & 24-70 and to me looks great, so I wonder
what are the advantages of a dedicated wide lens over stitching
photos? I'm sorry if I sound stupid. Thanks for your input.



--
Kind Regards,

Jorge Macedo
http://www.shotsandstuff.com

 

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