I already have Fuji F20.. What camera of these as second?

Hi, I choose F20 Fuji because of its small pixel density, very high lowlight performance and ease of use.

I'd like to get a 2nd camera in order to be able to choose and set aperture and shutter times by their priority, and to get some manual focus or setting.

Always remaining on high quality of details and between 5-8mpixel. (or density 10-20).

I used "search camera by feature" and came out: (I know, they're too many, but if you want, you can "delete" them from a consideration list

Olympus SP-320
Olympus SP-310
Canon PowerShot A620
Canon PowerShot A610
Olympus C-7070 Wide Zoom
Nikon Coolpix 8400
Olympus C-7000 Zoom
Canon PowerShot G6
Canon PowerShot A95
Pentax Optio 750Z
Canon PowerShot S60
Kodak DX7440
Olympus C-60 Zoom
Olympus C-770 UZ
Olympus C-765 UZ
Fujifilm FinePix F610
Olympus C-5060 Zoom
Sony DSC-F828
Nikon Coolpix 5400
Canon PowerShot S50
Olympus C-50 Zoom
Canon PowerShot G3
Canon PowerShot S45
Olympus C-5050 Zoom

According to your experiences, folks, can you suggest me which to buy taking in consideration lenses and ccd quality, contiguity and armony between pixels (expecially viewing pics at max res,or crop), flash shoot length, iso 400 or 800 performance and colours respect, batteries durability and shooting/writing speed, so I can say "comfort"?

Thank you all, if you don't bore you can also write why "yes" for one model and "not" for another.

Really thank you, guys!

Alot of these cameras are discontinued, and not readily available new.

Your list is of old models. List your budget, camera size desired (pocketable or DSLR like), and shooting requirements- wide angle for landscapes or zoom for nature shooting. Since you're spoiled with the F20 for indoor shooting, don't expect much beyond a iiffy ISO 400 for most of the latest pixel packed micro sensors.
--
Steve

For an up to date list of current cameras, check the B+H web sight.

Ratracer said:

Your list is of old models. List your budget, camera size desired
(pocketable or DSLR like), and shooting requirements- wide angle for
landscapes or zoom for nature shooting. Since you're spoiled with the
F20 for indoor shooting, don't expect much beyond a iiffy ISO 400 for
most of the latest pixel packed micro sensors.
--
Steve

Click to expand...

Budget around 300 or 200 eur.. But it's also ok a good condition used or refurbished.. don't you suggest it?

zoom around 4x or better, I mean.. longest is, but the sharpest (or less dark) should be.

It's for this I look at old cameras (and if you look at this, we have and a half for old cameras, while it's easier to find or for new cameras at 8 9 10 12 mpixel resolution..

I'm looking for something "better" in image output and pixel distribution, then a camera wich permits me to shoot at the time or aperture I want (even not buying a SLR).... Because it's boring and annoying shooting ALWAYS or quite always at 1/60 if i'm shooting at night or lowlight with flash or i.e at 1/4 without flash.. i'd like to choose other possibilities... That F20 does not permit (I scrambled all settings )

ehazera said:

For an up to date list of current cameras, check the B+H web sight.

Click to expand...

what is b+h?

Are you looking for a better image camera than the F20 based on the images in your gallery, say the "Witches Gathering" images?
--
Steve

More or less..

that day came out beautiful pics.. but most times i see watercolor effect in most pics I take.. I had a nytech 4mpixels before, pixels were less, but also cropping were squares, and fit one close the other.. in f20 and other cameras such as canon 900ti or panasonics I see pixel "brushed" on the pics.. I'm clear?

i'd like not to have brushed pics just because i've a 6mpixel or more camera, if not i buy a 3 4 5 mpixel with the biggest sensor.. but i also think that, taking pics with the right time and aperture in each situation I can reduce noises, watercolor and impurity.. isn't it?do you understand my problem?

Being a F30 owner, I understand completely. Unfortunately, what you are looking for can only be provided by a DSLR with their big sensors and fast lenses. The older cameras suffer greatly on write speeds and even though they don't have the pixel clutter, their processors are not up for low light noise reduction challenge either.
--
Steve

So in case should i buy a f30 in spite of other cameras, whatever they could be? just f30 (speaking of compact cameras) could help me about this?

No, you'll just get similar results as your F20. Only a DSLR will improve that type of capture unfortunately. The F series are (were) the stand-outs for this,but at the cost of detail. Sorry I can't be of more help.
--
Steve

Ratracer said:

No, you'll just get similar results as your F20. Only a DSLR will
improve that type of capture unfortunately. The F series are (were)
the stand-outs for this,but at the cost of detail. Sorry I can't be
of more help.
--
Steve

Click to expand...

I red that super ccd sensor of f20 is an actually 3mpixel sensor, combined in 6mpixel by an octagonal or esagonal interpolation (or more or less) isn't it? is it the cause of pixel brushing at high iso or very low light? any other camera who doesn't have this problem but does have real 4 or 5 mpixel ccd sensor? i.e i saw canon g6 (or other of g series), does it take better output,speaking about pixel distribution? anyone have the answer?

virgiglius said:

I red that super ccd sensor of f20 is an actually 3mpixel sensor,
combined in 6mpixel by an octagonal or esagonal interpolation (or
more or less) isn't it? is it the cause of pixel brushing at high iso
or very low light?

Click to expand...

No it has 6Mpixels all identical. What you are talkong about is super CCD-SR sensor which is being used in Fuji's DSLRs (S3-pro etc.).

Slightly better ISO performance of Fuji sensors are partly due to their peculiar octagonal arrangement and better compression and NR algorithms and partly due to 50% larger sensor than other similar resolution cameras. The lens is sharp which throws enough contrast to mitigate the effect of noise.

virgiglius said:

any other camera who doesn't have this problem but
does have real 4 or 5 mpixel ccd sensor? i.e i saw canon g6 (or other
of g series), does it take better output,speaking about pixel
distribution? anyone have the answer?

Click to expand...

Current line of cameras like G9 (upto ISO800), Fuji S100fs (upto ISO1600) produce good enough results if you shoot in Raw mode and post process yourself for JPG conversion.
--
Best Wishes, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612
Thanks for your time.

ajay0612 said:

virgiglius said:

I red that super ccd sensor of f20 is an actually 3mpixel sensor,
combined in 6mpixel by an octagonal or esagonal interpolation (or
more or less) isn't it? is it the cause of pixel brushing at high iso
or very low light?

Click to expand...

No it has 6Mpixels all identical. What you are talkong about is super
CCD-SR sensor which is being used in Fuji's DSLRs (S3-pro etc.).
Slightly better ISO performance of Fuji sensors are partly due to
their peculiar octagonal arrangement and better compression and NR
algorithms and partly due to 50% larger sensor than other similar
resolution cameras. The lens is sharp which throws enough contrast to
mitigate the effect of noise.

ajay0612 said:

any other camera who doesn't have this problem but
does have real 4 or 5 mpixel ccd sensor? i.e i saw canon g6 (or other
of g series), does it take better output,speaking about pixel
distribution? anyone have the answer?

Click to expand...

Current line of cameras like G9 (upto ISO800), Fuji S100fs (upto
ISO1600) produce good enough results if you shoot in Raw mode and
post process yourself for JPG conversion.
--
Best Wishes, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612
Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

So Canon g9 raw is bettern than fuji f20 jpeg? i mean depending to output quality (taking apart colours and other subjective things).. and if i consider g6 or g7 that are quite less expensive?

virgiglius said:

So Canon g9 raw is bettern than fuji f20 jpeg? i mean depending to
output quality (taking apart colours and other subjective things)..
and if i consider g6 or g7 that are quite less expensive?

Click to expand...

So i considered also (cos they shoot in raw mode) the following:

Nikon Coolpix 8400
Olympus C-7000 Zoom
Sony DSC-V3
Canon PowerShot S70
Canon PowerShot G6 I like its samples
Fujifilm FinePix E550 Zoom
Sony DSC-F828
Canon PowerShot G5 I like its samples
Fujifilm FinePix F700
Canon PowerShot G3
Ricoh GR Digital II
Ricoh Caplio GX100
Olympus SP-320

what's the best for you?

As I see it is. You may get grainy images but those will have lot of details. It is another matter if Fuji F20 offered RAW (wistful thinking).
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong9/page9.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong9/page10.asp

Current cameras (G9, Fuji S100fs, GX100 etc.) are faster (focus and shot to shot times) and RAW mode is practically usable because of much less shot to shot times than older ones you mentioned. JPG processing is also better.

If you have money constraints then Nikon P5100, Panasonic FX500, Fuji F50fd would be good enough to give those last generation cameras a run for their money.

virgiglius said:

So Canon g9 raw is bettern than fuji f20 jpeg? i mean depending to
output quality (taking apart colours and other subjective things)..
and if i consider g6 or g7 that are quite less expensive?

Click to expand...

--
Best Wishes, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612
Thanks for your time.

ajay0612 said:

Current cameras (G9, Fuji S100fs, GX100 etc.) are faster (focus and
shot to shot times) and RAW mode is practically usable because of
much less shot to shot times than older ones you mentioned. JPG
processing is also better.
If you have money constraints then Nikon P5100, Panasonic FX500, Fuji
F50fd would be good enough to give those last generation cameras a
run for their money.

virgiglius said:

So Canon g9 raw is bettern than fuji f20 jpeg? i mean depending to
output quality (taking apart colours and other subjective things)..
and if i consider g6 or g7 that are quite less expensive?

Click to expand...

--
Best Wishes, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612
Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

mm i like p5100 pics (dpreview samples) but not as much as f30 fuji.. cause of color "discontigue", not with uniorm nuances...

Fx500... is "panasonic".. can panasonic compete with other historical photografic productors as nikon and danon?..
fuji f50fd... more pixel density, isn't it worst than f20???

g9.. mmm g9 ok but quite expensive..
s100fs.. too big

gx100.. good good camera.. but.. is it better to save money and buy a bridge or a slr or insted taking a g9?? or if i take a g9 or gx100, talking about raw, I can have the "quite the same" effect of a SLR?I can anwer myself, NO! ccd and LENSES are better then compact cameras so.. does it worth to get an "expensive-good-at-raw-compact?

sorry for my mental trips

virgiglius said:

mm i like p5100 pics (dpreview samples) but not as much as f30 fuji..
cause of color "discontigue", not with uniorm nuances...
Fx500... is "panasonic".. can panasonic compete with other historical
photografic productors as nikon and danon?..

Click to expand...

Short answer. Yes (now).

virgiglius said:

fuji f50fd... more pixel density, isn't it worst than f20???

Click to expand...

At higher ISOs yes. Have you searched for F31fd (A/S priority) or S6000fd?

virgiglius said:

g9.. mmm g9 ok but quite expensive..

Click to expand...

Then consider Canon A650IS, A720IS, A570IS etc. One can use CHDK firmware to enhance their capabilities (enabling Raw shooting etc.).

virgiglius said:

s100fs.. too big

Click to expand...

Unfortunately there are no better & cheaper/smaller cameras currently.

virgiglius said:

gx100.. good good camera.. but.. is it better to save money and buy a
bridge or a slr or insted taking a g9?? or if i take a g9 or gx100,
talking about raw, I can have the "quite the same" effect of a SLR?I
can anwer myself, NO! ccd and LENSES are better then compact
cameras so.. does it worth to get an "expensive-good-at-raw-compact?

Click to expand...

Compact cameras are all about convenience and portability. e.g. I carry TX1 all the time while my Sony R1 sees the light only on serious outings.
Also these top of line compacts have better lenses than kits offered with DSLRs.

You have to prioritize you requirements. Size, budget, lens, IQ, speed, features, etc. High ISO performance is only one of the factor which comes into play in low light action shooting.
--
Best Wishes, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612
Thanks for your time.

ajay0612 said:

virgiglius said:

mm i like p5100 pics (dpreview samples) but not as much as f30 fuji..
cause of color "discontigue", not with uniorm nuances...
Fx500... is "panasonic".. can panasonic compete with other historical
photografic productors as nikon and danon?..

Click to expand...

Short answer. Yes (now).

ajay0612 said:

fuji f50fd... more pixel density, isn't it worst than f20???

Click to expand...

At higher ISOs yes. Have you searched for F31fd (A/S priority) or
S6000fd?

ajay0612 said:

g9.. mmm g9 ok but quite expensive..

Click to expand...

Then consider Canon A650IS, A720IS, A570IS etc. One can use CHDK
firmware to enhance their capabilities (enabling Raw shooting etc.).

ajay0612 said:

s100fs.. too big

Click to expand...

Unfortunately there are no better & cheaper/smaller cameras currently.

ajay0612 said:

gx100.. good good camera.. but.. is it better to save money and buy a
bridge or a slr or insted taking a g9?? or if i take a g9 or gx100,
talking about raw, I can have the "quite the same" effect of a SLR?I
can anwer myself, NO! ccd and LENSES are better then compact
cameras so.. does it worth to get an "expensive-good-at-raw-compact?

Click to expand...

Compact cameras are all about convenience and portability. e.g. I
carry TX1 all the time while my Sony R1 sees the light only on
serious outings.
Also these top of line compacts have better lenses than kits offered
with DSLRs.
You have to prioritize you requirements. Size, budget, lens, IQ,
speed, features, etc. High ISO performance is only one of the factor
which comes into play in low light action shooting.
--
Best Wishes, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612
Thanks for your time.

Click to expand...

no, s6000fd no, i won't use anymore AA batteries' camera
your answer were very very comprehensive, thank you.

then I'll tell you my priorities.

1)size (as closer to a compact as I can get)
2)Image quality (pixel contiguity considering) so then lenses

3)budget, around 300eur or a good used for 200-350 max, dependig to which camera.

4)features, I mean uncompressed format (so in not good low-light-performance I can gain something by non-compressing) or better having the possibility to save the same file in raw and non raw at the same time, in order to choose and not to have to PP every pic i took later..does g9 have this? it is, with p5100 and p5000 the camera which i'm considering more...

It seems to me that, apart colors, in daylight, expecially in good light conditions, every camera works the same.. then something changes, so i prefere a camera that give me more features of good output file in lowlight or high-iso, above 400 i mean, than another one(and I think i can solve the problem of pics took in lowlight by using a/s priority in order to have pics firm and sharper because I set shutting times, and also taking it in RAW in order to reduce chromatic or noise errors, to solve it and set real parameters with PProduction).

virgiglius said:

1)size (as closer to a compact as I can get)
2)Image quality (pixel contiguity considering) so then lenses
3)budget, around 300eur or a good used for 200-350 max, dependig to
which camera.
4)features, I mean uncompressed format (so in not good
low-light-performance I can gain something by non-compressing) or
better having the possibility to save the same file in raw and non
raw at the same time, in order to choose and not to have to PP every
pic i took later..does g9 have this? it is, with p5100 and p5000 the
camera which i'm considering more...

Click to expand...

Yes. G9 has RAW + JPG mode.

If you are ready to buy used then why don't consider used DSLR? e.g. Nikon D40 or Pentax K100D. These will be faster, much better in low light IQ (owing to their larger sensors). The size will be comparable to typical prosumer you listed.
These are as easy to use in AUTO mode.
--
Best Wishes, Ajay
http://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612
Thanks for your time.