Reading mode: Light Dark

Dance, Colors & Skin Tones

Go to last post
R

RJR

Veteran Member
Messages
3,122
Reaction score
0
Location
US
Greetings everyone,

For those that shoot and sell dance images, how do you handle colors and skin tones? Stage lighting, of course, introduces deliberate color casts.

When you edit, do you leave the "stage colors", or color correct for neutrality (and natural skin tones)?

I have a gaggle of images I am about to edit. Do customers (in this case parents of student dancers) seem to have a preference?

Thanks in advance,

-- Rob
 
You certainly don't "correct" stage colors.

Set your white balance to tungsten, fine tune it for ideal results, and leave it alone. Let the light designer's work do its thing... and leave less work for you at the same time.
RJR said:
Greetings everyone,
For those that shoot and sell dance images, how do you handle colors
and skin tones? Stage lighting, of course, introduces deliberate
color casts.

When you edit, do you leave the "stage colors", or color correct for
neutrality (and natural skin tones)?

I have a gaggle of images I am about to edit. Do customers (in this
case parents of student dancers) seem to have a preference?

Thanks in advance,

-- Rob
Click to expand...
--
Michael Thomas Mitchell
http://michaelphoto.net
 
if you have time use a wb card and a gray card during a dress rehersal you can learn about the stage you will be shooting later and will learn how the lighting is behaving on your camera... tungsten w/b will work fine but not always acurate since there will be a mixture of light temperatures and gels, but often other people shoot pics along with you and you can get infiltration of a flash...not such a big deal...If your DSLR has a costum W/B id recomend using 2800-3000 K (kelvin) Also I dont know what camera you are using but should shoot Raw, and best most reliable most flexible tool for editing is adobe´s Photoshop Raw editor on CS3 is the best tool for correction, I find the camera´s software allways to be lacking of true corrections. if you are shooting on high iso remember you will eventualy find iso noise, so get the noise ninja plugin.
 
Hi Michael,

My current stage performance color workflow is shooting RAW, 40D set to AWB. In CS3 I work with RAW editor and start with Tungsten setting. I almost always leave the lighting "as is" and allow the state lighting to create it's mood/emotion.

The reason for this current post, is that in one of my recent posts, some forum users recommended that I "fix the WB" and pull down the saturation on some of my dance images before selling. In this set of images, I did not push the saturation very much and I used the above color workflow. Not surprisingly, some well known dance photographers agree with what you have recommended below. Stage lighting is not a color cast to be corrected, but rather, an integral part of the performance.

Thanks for the reply

-- Rob
Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
Set your white balance to tungsten, fine tune it for ideal results,
and leave it alone. Let the light designer's work do its thing... and
leave less work for you at the same time.
RJR said:
Greetings everyone,
For those that shoot and sell dance images, how do you handle colors
and skin tones? Stage lighting, of course, introduces deliberate
color casts.

When you edit, do you leave the "stage colors", or color correct for
neutrality (and natural skin tones)?

I have a gaggle of images I am about to edit. Do customers (in this
case parents of student dancers) seem to have a preference?

Thanks in advance,

-- Rob
Click to expand...
--
Michael Thomas Mitchell
http://michaelphoto.net
Click to expand...
 
Thanks very much for reply.

I am using a Canon 40D, editing with ACR. I love this RAW editor. I have been using Noise Ninja for several years. Especially for small prints, I am finding that I am using noise reduction more sparingly each year that I shoot high ISO, low light events.

Take care,

-- Rob
Chrissmc said:
if you have time use a wb card and a gray card during a dress
rehersal you can learn about the stage you will be shooting later and
will learn how the lighting is behaving on your camera... tungsten
w/b will work fine but not always acurate since there will be a
mixture of light temperatures and gels, but often other people shoot
pics along with you and you can get infiltration of a flash...not
such a big deal...If your DSLR has a costum W/B id recomend using
2800-3000 K (kelvin) Also I dont know what camera you are using but
should shoot Raw, and best most reliable most flexible tool for
editing is adobe´s Photoshop Raw editor on CS3 is the best tool for
correction, I find the camera´s software allways to be lacking of
true corrections. if you are shooting on high iso remember you will
eventualy find iso noise, so get the noise ninja plugin.
Click to expand...
 
I do a fair amount of dance. Our local productions typically have horrid lighting. Low level, constant change in color, and distracting backgrounds. In short, dance is a real bear to shoot well.

What I do is try to get a white balance with just the main stage lights on. Sometimes I'm able to get back stage with a grey card and take this before they start. If not, I will adjust white balance based on a neutral grey in a shot with just the stage lights.

Once they start adding colored lights and spots, etc I just leave that alone - it's the ambience of the event. Generally my dance shots are a bit warm from true neutral white balance.

--
This message was created with 100% post-consumer electrons
 
I always shoot raw, that's huge.
--
This message was created with 100% post-consumer electrons
 
I agree with pprior, I've shot some amateur dance recitals where the lighting is horrid, and worse -- unintentionally horrid. They don't really have anyone creating a lighting style. Due to that, I've had to do a lot of color correction and desaturate some.

If the lighting is professional, that's another story.
--
Ron
 
RJR said:
Greetings everyone,
For those that shoot and sell dance images, how do you handle colors
and skin tones? Stage lighting, of course, introduces deliberate
color casts.

When you edit, do you leave the "stage colors", or color correct for
neutrality (and natural skin tones)?

I have a gaggle of images I am about to edit. Do customers (in this
case parents of student dancers) seem to have a preference?

Thanks in advance,

-- Rob
Click to expand...
--

Interior or exterior, I try to leave the stage lights "as is". this was made during a rotating, multi colored spot light. we (press) were about 50-75 feet from the performers. I used a 28-300mm lens & slow shutter speeds (even w/3200 ISO, RAW) to catch a performer at the height of their movements.







this was on auto wb & the camera on the "P" mode, why? because I wanted to keep up with the singers & not worry about moment to moment camera settings.

PP still consisted of sharpening & a little color correction,not enough to change the overall ambiances.

25 years as a freelancer,(news,magazine, wedding photography) camera equip. over the years: Practica MLT, Canon A1, Minolta 9xi, 7xi, Dimage Z1,Fuji 5200,Canon S2,Pentax K100D,Olympus 380(see my Z1 shots at http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Buckl/ the COMMUNITY album was done with the Z1, and most of the photos in the album:Other were w/the Z1)
 
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate hearing your approach. I end up shooting about 2-3 dance events each year. It is certainly a great challenge for both shooting and post-processing.

Take care,

-- Rob
pprior said:
I do a fair amount of dance. Our local productions typically have
horrid lighting. Low level, constant change in color, and
distracting backgrounds. In short, dance is a real bear to shoot
well.

What I do is try to get a white balance with just the main stage
lights on. Sometimes I'm able to get back stage with a grey card and
take this before they start. If not, I will adjust white balance
based on a neutral grey in a shot with just the stage lights.

Once they start adding colored lights and spots, etc I just leave
that alone - it's the ambience of the event. Generally my dance
shots are a bit warm from true neutral white balance.

--
This message was created with 100% post-consumer electrons
Click to expand...
 
FriscoRon said:
I agree with pprior, I've shot some amateur dance recitals where the
lighting is horrid, and worse -- unintentionally horrid. They don't
really have anyone creating a lighting style. Due to that, I've had
to do a lot of color correction and desaturate some.

If the lighting is professional, that's another story.
--
Ron
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your sharing some examples. I agree that, especially under good lighting, it would make sense to preserve the color/mood of the stage lighting as it is certainly an important part of the overall performance.

You state in your thread that you leave your camera on AWB when shooting stage lighting. I must admit this surprises me. I know our cameras are pretty darn smart (and smarter than us in many circumstances), but can the current crop of DSLR's capture stage light using AWB without somehow trying to neutralize it?

Nice shots, BTW.

Take care,

-- Rob
 
RJR said:
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your sharing some examples. I
agree that, especially under good lighting, it would make sense to
preserve the color/mood of the stage lighting as it is certainly an
important part of the overall performance.

You state in your thread that you leave your camera on AWB when
shooting stage lighting. I must admit this surprises me. I know
our cameras are pretty darn smart (and smarter than us in many
circumstances), but can the current crop of DSLR's capture stage
light using AWB without somehow trying to neutralize it?

Nice shots, BTW.

Take care,

-- Rob
Click to expand...
--

i did do some minor tweaking , I had to time the shots for the best lighting moments since the main light was rotating.

25 years as a freelancer,(news,magazine, wedding photography) camera equip. over the years: Practica MLT, Canon A1, Minolta 9xi, 7xi, Dimage Z1,Fuji 5200,Canon S2,Pentax K100D,Olympus 380(see my Z1 shots at http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Buckl/ the COMMUNITY album was done with the Z1, and most of the photos in the album:Other were w/the Z1)
 
My daughter had her first dance competition a few months back. There was a pro there shooting on a small platform, ideally placed in the audience. There was a no photography rule at the event. Whiel I envied his shooting position, I really envied the well lit stage and constant lighting!

-- Rob
 
I shoot a lot of dance, mostly of my daughter performing but sometimes for our good friends children as well. Since my daughter is still young, the routines usually have relatively normal lighting. No serious "moody" lighting yet - that's for the older girls, such as ballet or an individual performance spotlight.

With that said, I always correct for proper white balance - I personally don't like the color cast from a random stage light. I shoot raw and use the white and black points in CS/Lightroom/NX2 to get proper skintones and costume color. This is my personal preference and I haven't had any complaints from other parents yet.

When my daughter gets older and the routines become more serious and moody I do plan on preserving stage lighting if it adds to the mood of the photo. Here's an example:



--
Regards,

BobCoolTX
 
Dance photography is my bread-and-butter and my specialty. I actually LOVE to shoot low-light, stage light with no flash.

Trying to set manual white balance is futile due to the constant changing light and changing costume colors. I simply leave it on auto w/b and meter accordingly. I shoot in manual mode and adjust exposure on every shot I take -- it's challenging but can be done as you get familiar with this type of shooting.

The hardest thing to get used to is to NOT rely on what the camera display tells you -- doesn't matter what metering mode you shoot in, the camera just doesn't "see" the subjects like you will and you often end up with over-exposed shots due to spot lighting. You have to let your experience tell you when to adjust exposure, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO.

Since I can shoot between 4-10K shots at certain dance events, I try to shoot so I don't have to do much, if any, post-production. I need to keep my workflow to an absolute minimum to make a buck. I use PhotoReflect for my ecomm and I do use a one-click batch auto-contrast in Digital Darkroom on all images, add a little sharpness for web previews and will tweak a few select shots if they are worth the time. I always shoot jpeg-fine and depending on the event will even shoot jpg-medium. It keeps the workflow moving faster when working with large amount of files. The majority of my sales are 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10. I will get the occasional 24x36 poster order and the prints look great if you use a good lab with good paper, even from these jpeg files. I never shoot RAW -- I don't have the time ;)

I've shot with Canon 10D, 30D and 40D. Use Canon 50mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.8 mostly. The 50 tends to have focusing issues when shooting wider stages with subjects in back, but is great for the closer shots. The 85 is THE quintessential lens for this type of shooting. I just purchased the Canon 24mm f/1.4 L for spaces where I can get at the front of the stage, and I have both the 50 and 85 f/1.2 L's on my wish list.

Due to my style of photography, the subject matter, and the camera/lens combo I use, my camera settings are all over the place. But, here are ranges of settings I tend to work in:

ISO - between 1000-1600 (ideal is 1250)
W/B - auto
Focus - AI Servo with center AF point
Meter - center-weighted or partial
Shutter - 1/250 - 1/500 (ideal is 1/320)
Aperture - f/2.0 - 3.5 (ideal is f/3.2)
Exposure - typically underexpose -1 to -1.5 EV

You can see some of my ports on my website here: http://photosbyrene.com

I have a dance-only port here: http://www.modelrun.com/users/photo/22570/_0#23102_0

God bless and good luck with you dance photography!

Rene
 
Thanks for your very detailed reply. Greatly appreciated. I also love shooting low-light theater and dance. I have several questions for you...

(1) Are you shooting handheld or w/ monopod?

(2) Where are you shooting from in the audience? How close are you that your longest lense is the 85 1.8? I also have this lens, but I primarily use a 70-200 2.8 IS lens for dance.

(3) I assume you are the paid pro for the event? Is all your revenue from prints?

(4) How do you handle pictures of the kids on the internet? Do parents sign waivers w/ their dance studios? I notice that anybody can view the image on your website.

(5) I like how your pics are organized by dance on your website. How do you keep track of this?

(6) Could you please describe in more detail how you are metering your shots? Are you using the histogram? Rely on the LCD at all? If I could walk away from a large dance shoot with a bank of images that needed minimal editing, I would be one happy man!

(7) Approximately how many orders do you get from a dance event/recital? Mostly a certain size?

(8) I see in your galleries that you tilt several of the shots. Parents like these?
(9) Ever attempt to level the stage? Or would this take too much time?

(10) You take a lot of pics of each dance. I notice that, at times, you are loosing feet, hands...ect. Do parents even care about this?
(11) Any noise reduction?
(12) What size & resolution do you put on the website?

(12) How do you handle sharpening without knowing what size print is being ordered?

Thanks in advance for your comments! Take care.

-- Rob
 
Rob,

Sheesh, I can't give away all my secrets for free ;) OK, OK, I'll answer a few of your questions below... I'm sending this in two parts...

PART I
RJR said:
Thanks for your very detailed reply. Greatly appreciated. I also
love shooting low-light theater and dance. I have several questions
for you...

(1) Are you shooting handheld or w/ monopod?
Click to expand...
  • Handheld when I shoot with small lenses, monnopod with 70-200.
RJR said:
(2) Where are you shooting from in the audience? How close are you
that your longest lense is the 85 1.8?
Click to expand...
  • When I shoot at these events, I am the exclusive photographer for the event and arrange to have a spot right in front of the stage -- actually I try to set up at 45-degree angles from center stage. I'm very stealthy and do not distract the performers or audience members. I bring a rolling stool and move with the action as needed, again, without distracting from the performance. Stage depth varies and that is why I need a 50mm and 24mm. The 85 does the job in most cases but is a bit tight when trying to capture more than one performer in the composition.
I also have this lens, but I
RJR said:
primarily use a 70-200 2.8 IS lens for dance.
Click to expand...
  • I've shot many dance events in gyms with a 70-200 on a monopod. IS is of no value for this type of movement. I found myself using my 70-200 less and less after I started shooting the fast primes. With an f/2.8 lens, you end up shooting wide open or one stop up -- the shots turn out OK, but it's tough to get the really good shots that way. Bottom line is I trust the 85 to get the shots and will try to position myself to optimize shooting with this lens.
RJR said:
(3) I assume you are the paid pro for the event? Is all your
revenue from prints?
Click to expand...
  • Depends. I negotiate every deal. Some are paid and some are 100% print sales. I'll admit that most are 100% print sales. My first goal is to build relationships and a database of customers I can market too later.
RJR said:
(4) How do you handle pictures of the kids on the internet?
Click to expand...
  • I go through every photo before it gets uploaded to my ecomm site. You have to be very carefull when you shoot dance because there tends to be a lot of wardrobe malfunctions. Also you will sometimes capture performers in compromising positions which are not appropriate to upload. I had a daughter who was in dance and I look at it as if each performer was my kid. The only comment I've received is that people trust what I put up there.
Do
RJR said:
parents sign waivers mw/ their dance studios? I notice that anybody
can view the image on your website.
Click to expand...
  • Most of the work I do is with schools, studios or event promotions companies. They require a signed waiver of sorts for photos and video that covers anything I do. I do some work with professional dance companies and use my own release there. You'll also notice some albums are password protected -- depends on the subject matter and the desires of the client as to whether or not I password protect an album.
RJR said:
(5) I like how your pics are organized by dance on your website.
How do you keep track of this?
Click to expand...
  • It's been a learning experience! The way I do it now is get a copy of the program for the event. Then I make sure my camera's time is accurtate and ask any photogs shooting with me to sync the camera time so I can sort by time later in post. I use ACDSEE Pro to quickly delete the duds and organize the albums and categories and then build them in Darkroom (PhotoReflect's tool).
RJR said:
(6) Could you please describe in more detail how you are metering
your shots?
Click to expand...
  • This will depend on your camera's abilities. I've expirimented with metering a lot. The first thing I tell photogs that shoot with me who haven't shot this type of event before is to remember that the camera doesn't see the subject, it only interprets light. These cameras are so good that even a slight shift of the lens can make a difference on where they meter and how they expose a shot. If you try and set metering to evaluative, the camera doesn't "see" the hot spots from the stage lighting on only the subjects face -- you end up with overexposed shots. In contrast, if you set metering to "spot", the camera doesn't pick up enough of the contrasting light to properly balnace the available light -- especially when you have a performer wearing a dark top and lighter colored bottoms, or if the performer has light or dark skin. "partial" and cneter-weighted seem to do the best job of balancing the available light in consideration of outfits and skin tones.
 
PART II

Are you using the histogram?
  • not very much anymore. The more you shoot, the more you learn to read light. I have contests with my photogs to guess where our primary settings will be before we begin shooting -- then I check the histogram to see if i've won ;)
Rely on the LCD at all?
  • Yes, mainly to check for hot spots which are easy and quick to see on the LCD
RJR said:
If I could walk away from a large dance shoot with a bank of images
that needed minimal editing, I would be one happy man!
Click to expand...
RJR said:
(7) Approximately how many orders do you get from a dance
event/recital? Mostly a certain size?
Click to expand...
  • It's never the same. I've been tracking it trying to figuire it out, but I can't tell you why some do well and others bomb. A lot of it is the marketing you do with the event host. Print sizes are mostly 4x6 and 5x7 with the occasional 8x10 or poster-size print.
RJR said:
(8) I see in your galleries that you tilt several of the shots.
Parents like these?
Click to expand...
  • That's my own personal style. I use to be a dancer myself and to me the tilted shots add to the movement the performer is trying to show. I try not to overo it it. I also tend to tilt when the subject moves closer to me and I'm trying to keep bodyparts in the frame. I can't say whether or not parents like them over the non-tilted shots and have never had negative comments about them.
RJR said:
(9) Ever attempt to level the stage? Or would this take too much time?
Click to expand...
  • by "leveling" I assume you mean to try and set lights so there are no hot spots? For shooting in gyms, there's nothing you can do other than to make sure all lights are on. For stage lighting, I've tried to work with the lighting tech but they don't set light for the photographer ;). I respect their creativity and mainly ask them about the lighting and try to anticipate how things will look. I try to go to dress rehearsals in advance and that helps a lot.
RJR said:
(10) You take a lot of pics of each dance. I notice that, at times,
you are loosing feet, hands...ect. Do parents even care about this?
Click to expand...
  • Good question. When I first started shooting dance, I used a 70-200 and could position the subject within the frame. I actually found it to be boring because all of my shots had the subject in the same place. My goal now is to capture emotion at full-body, 3/4-body and headshots. It makes for much more interesting shots and parents seem to love it. The closeups sell very well.
RJR said:
(11) Any noise reduction?
Click to expand...
  • naw. I haven't done NR since Noise Ninja first came out! This is highly subjective, but lately I've been shooting more of an artsy style and a little noise is good. The sepia tints and B/Ws photos turn out great with a little noise.
RJR said:
(12) What size & resolution do you put on the website?
Click to expand...
  • I let Darkroom do its thing -- it automatically generates thumbs and preview images optimized for the ecomm site. I send digital negatives to the lab upon receiving the photo orders.
RJR said:
(12) How do you handle sharpening without knowing what size print is
being ordered?
Click to expand...
  • Easy. I use a batch process in Darkroom and boost sharpness for the preview images on the ecomm site. When I get an order, I make final tweaks to each image ordered based on the print size and the quality of the shot before sending to my lab.
RJR said:
Thanks in advance for your comments! Take care.

-- Rob
Click to expand...
  • Good luck with your dance photography! Send me a link to your work sometime if you think about it, and if you're ever in the Austin, TX area, give me a shout!
 
Rene,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful and detailed reply! Very helpful. I promise that I will take you up on your offer if I am ever in Austin. I have long thought that spending some time with a pro would be one of the best ways to learn a craft like photography.

Take care,

-- Rob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top