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Hey Canon! ISO, ISO, ISO, ISO. ISO!

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fyngyrz said:
Since Nikon has far outstripped the ratio of comparative areas in
their 6400 ISO, they've figured some of this out. I can only assume
that Canon's been working on it too.
Click to expand...
There's not that much to work on really, in this regard (catching up to Nikon). The issue is corporate arrogance. The people who make decisions at Canon are inconsiderate, not only of the users, but of the company as well. It would be totally trivial to add higher ISOs to the cameras, and it would be equally trivial to offer, as an option, noise reduction that hides high-frequency chroma in the less-exposed tonal ranges. It is Canon's philosophy which is preventing these things from happening, and they are irritating customers, and losing customers, because of it.

--
John

 
Canon's loss of customers is very real. In their public financial records they have been reporting dismal growth in their camera divison, while Nikon is reporting robust sales and high growth for the same product lines. This, perhaps more than anything else, generally provides executive office motivation to drive product development & introductions.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a shuffling of the executives, even in a company as conservative as Canon Japan.
John Sheehy said:
There's not that much to work on really, in this regard (catching up
to Nikon). The issue is corporate arrogance. The people who make
decisions at Canon are inconsiderate, not only of the users, but of
the company as well. It would be totally trivial to add higher ISOs
to the cameras, and it would be equally trivial to offer, as an
option, noise reduction that hides high-frequency chroma in the
less-exposed tonal ranges. It is Canon's philosophy which is
preventing these things from happening, and they are irritating
customers, and losing customers, because of it.
Click to expand...
--
Best regards,
Doug
http://pbase.com/dougj
 
Doug J said:
Canon's loss of customers is very real. In their public financial
records they have been reporting dismal growth in their camera
divison, while Nikon is reporting robust sales and high growth for
the same product lines. This, perhaps more than anything else,
generally provides executive office motivation to drive product
development & introductions.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a shuffling of the executives, even in
a company as conservative as Canon Japan.
Click to expand...
.....Don't be too surprised if they fail to respond to Nikon in a timely and decisive manner. Look at the history of General Motors vs Toyota. GM has been a market leader for so long that it just can't come to terms with the reality that its products aren't competitive. The complacency and arrogance of a corporation is difficult to reverse when there's a mindset of making small adjustments and hoping that marketing is the only real problem. If the customer base gets the notion that you're just not focused on product, even real changes that are long overdue can go unnoticed by the public.

.....I'm hoping that the 5D's successor is going to address the competitive threat of this new D700 but I'm worried that Canon just isn't ready to do what it takes to meet Nikon's challenge.

 
webshark3 said:
I don't do much (well nothing) with Nikon, But I thought all modes
over 1600 were obtained in similar fashion to pushing in
Post-Production. I'm just throwing that out there... I could be
completely wrong.
Click to expand...
Depends on which camera/sensor. The pushed ISO are labeled as "HI xx". My D200's ISO 3200 is really a "HI 1.0", where a D300 has a real ISO 3200, D3 goes up to ISO 6400 without pushing it.
--

 
"Don't be too surprised if they fail to respond to Nikon in a timely and decisive manner. "

Awwww.....

:(
 
Tim in upstate NY said:
General Motors vs Toyota. GM has been a market leader for so long that it just can't come to terms with the reality that its products aren't competitive. The complacency and arrogance of a corporation is difficult to reverse when there's a mindset of making small adjustments and hoping that marketing is the only real problem. If the customer base gets the notion that you're just not focused on product, even real changes that are long overdue can go unnoticed by the public.
Click to expand...
GM got caught up in "what drivers wanted" (large trucks, etc) instead of focusing on what they "needed". GM will catch up, but it will be slow moving.

On the flip-side, my new Madza5 was laughed at in the U.S. in 2005. People aren't laughing anymore. Mazda (and Toyota, etc.) are showing drivers what they NEED.

I wonder if Canon is a GM or Mazda.....? :)
 
fyngyrz said:
Nikon's D700 boasts ISO 200 – 6400: extensible up to 25600
(equivalent) and down to ISO 100 (equivalent). The D700 body is, I
understand, about three grand.

Canon, you want (another) three grand from me?

Match, or beat, those ISO specs with a camera body that'll take my
Canon EF glass, and I'll write the check the same day you ship the
camera body.
Click to expand...
Just because it can go to ISO 6400 or more does'nt mean its going to be able to take usable quality shots at those ISO settings.

You already have a stack of Canon lenses, you want a FF sensor and usable high ISO's so do yourself a favour...Get yourself a 5D.

--
DSG
--



--
http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/
 
Mmmmf. The main problem with the 5D is the FOV loss I'd take. I used one for a few weeks and was really disappointed at the loss of detail; you get about 20% more pixels but they're distributed over about 250% the area, resulting in a considerably less telescopic aspect for any particular lens. For astro photos, that's taking a hit. So I'm really looking for a more sensitive C-sensor. That keeps my 85mm looking at the FOV I'd have to buy an ƒ1.2 135mm lens for, a lens which (a) doesn't exist presently and (b) would cost an arm and a leg.

Maybe the next 5D series will have what it takes to tempt me.
 
Completely read a DPR DSLR review to have a professional tell you that beyond a certain ISO the images are useless. At 100,000 it is pure noise with no image at all. No amount of PP can rescue a very noisy image.
Just curious how you use those high ISO numbers.
fyngyrz said:
Nikon's D700 boasts ISO 200 – 6400: extensible up to 25600
(equivalent) and down to ISO 100 (equivalent). The D700 body is, I
understand, about three grand.

Canon, you want (another) three grand from me?

Match, or beat, those ISO specs with a camera body that'll take my
Canon EF glass, and I'll write the check the same day you ship the
camera body. Done deal. FF or C sensor, I prefer the latter, but I'd
buy a FF if it had that kind of honest, usable ISO performance.

The 40D's ISO 1600 isn't enough for this guy. It's close -- but I'm
definitely looking for more. Nikon's really, really tempting me here,
but I have a load of Canon glass, and of course that tends to make
one stop and think.

Sigh. :(

Fall 2008? 50D? ISO 6400?

Here's hoping...
Click to expand...
--
Bob

'There are always two people in every picture: the photographer and the viewer.' - Ansel Adams

Canon 40D, 70-200mm f4L IS, 28-135mm IS, Sigma 17-70mm f2.8 Macro, 100-400 mm f4.5L IS
Sony R1
Canon Pro1

 
Tim in upstate NY said:
Joseph S Wisniewski said:
Tim in upstate NY said:
....I've seen the rawhide one which was pretty good, but not the
others. Got any links?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately not. I include the word "filk" in pretty much every
post that I do with one of these weird songs. But the dpReview search
engine is down at the moment, so I can't find the filk. First time
I've seen the search down since the big upgrade...

But if you're wondering what "filk" is, the Wikipedia is still up. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filk
Click to expand...
.....Thanks for that link. Learned something new!
Click to expand...
You're quite welcome...

And search is back up, so here's the grand and glorious filk list...

Rawhide (Trollin' Trollin' Trollin', the very first filk ever posted on this site)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=15729193

It Ain't Heavy, it's My VR
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=17360303

Trollochrome (a classic)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=16185879

Leica, The Red Nosed Camera
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=20949576

If I Had a Million Dollars (about Leica, again)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1038&message=20593855

Gimmie Three Megs (About Foveon. Has a few cryptic Sigma forum "in jokes")
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=18851159

Go Away Little Troll
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=16971236

As Time Goes By (A Zeiss is Still a Zeiss)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=16808016

Lawnchair Man (About a particular Sigma forum regular)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=18851050

Will C. Photos (About a Canon troll)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=16187223

Troll John B. (two different versions, I reconstructed it once from memory)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=18668932
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=12132543

It's the end of the bulb as we know it. (unfinished, only got one verse down)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=22435848

Pieces of Data (also unfinished, just two lines)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=7128908

"Leica Virgin" and "Leica Prayer" may be lost. They were posted to photo.net, but never to dpReview. There's something about Leica that just inspires these songs.

Of course, I'll never match a master like Weird Al...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=28257883

But then again, even Weird Al never wrote a cycle of poems...

about the four seasons...

in magic marker...

on the bodies of nude women...

[warning, links to images containing nudity and bad poetry]
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1038&message=20599564

a wizfaq for filk?
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
This is a treasure trove.

Thanks Joe

 
fyngyrz said:
Mmmmf. The main problem with the 5D is the FOV loss I'd take. I used
one for a few weeks and was really disappointed at the loss of
detail; you get about 20% more pixels but they're distributed over
about 250% the area, resulting in a considerably less telescopic
aspect for any particular lens. For astro photos, that's taking a
hit. So I'm really looking for a more sensitive C-sensor. That keeps
my 85mm looking at the FOV I'd have to buy an ƒ1.2 135mm lens for, a
lens which (a) doesn't exist presently and (b) would cost an arm and
a leg.

Maybe the next 5D series will have what it takes to tempt me.
Click to expand...
Get yourself a big telescope then...For the price of a 5D body you could get something pretty big...I've seen 30" truss-tube Newtoneon kits advertised in Amateur Astronomer for only about a $1000!!!

--
DSG
--



--
http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/
 
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