Zoo requires ME to pay a license fee for MY photos! (pics)

You said it correctly the zoo has a rule but you are not breaking the law.I agreee you have to leave if they ask you but the main thing we are taking about is you are not breaking any law that is currently in affect.
 
Guys I dont sell anything that i shoot.I shoot for myself for the pleasure of it.Lately everyone wants to charge you for something that was never charged before and that is what upsets me.Now the zoos want to get into the photography business and this zoo wants 250.00 per print sold .They should just charge you an extra fee for entering with your commercial gear and thats it.Not $250 per print
 
Really what thet are doing is to ask, in effect, a pro-rated higher admission fee from those who profit from the existance of the zoo.

If they put in, say $10,000 worth of effort to keep the zoo open for the day that you visit, and they get say 500 visitors, they could charge everyone twenty dollars to get into the zoo, or they could charge most folks $15, and shift the costs onto those making a profit off of the existance of the zoo. You are, in effect, subsidizing the 12 year old elementary school class trip and maybe that's a good thing.
 
Most zoo photos aren't sold.
Make the best images you can
and if you are lucky enough to sell one
occasionally, it shouldn't be a problem, just
don't go out of your way to say where
the image was taken. A close up
of a gorilla gives no clue as to its origin.

In fairness, if one were systematically photographing
zoo animals and producing a line of post cards, or a
"Denver Zoo Calendar", the zoo would be entitled to royalties.
If I were doing such a project, I'd make a financial
arrangement with the zoo ahead of time, but I'd also
arrange for special access to the zoo before the
crowds arrive.

maljo
 
just like people. Scars, fur patterns,
etc.

maljo
 
Take photos as a tourist, but if you
decide to sell one, you owe 15% of the sales
price.
That's not unreasonable.
You can use a tripod outdoors.
Get a name tag that says, "I'm
an amateur, leave me alone!." and enjoy
your visit.
They don't limit the lens you use,
fortunately, so you can show up
with a 600mm f4 on a D3 if you want.

Like everyone else, zoos are struggling to
survive financially these days.

maljo
 
Take photos as a tourist, but if you
decide to sell one, you owe 15% of the sales
price.
No, you owe 15% of the sales, or $450, "whichever is greater".

12. Photos that are being used for commercial purposes that have not been subjected to the shooting fees are subject to a fee of 15% of all sales or a one-time payment of $450.00 (whichever is greater).
That's not unreasonable.
You can use a tripod outdoors.
Get a name tag that says, "I'm
an amateur, leave me alone!." and enjoy
your visit.
They don't limit the lens you use,
fortunately, so you can show up
with a 600mm f4 on a D3 if you want.
If you do that, you will be accosted every 15 minutes. Been there, done that.
Like everyone else, zoos are struggling to
survive financially these days.
Does "everyone else" end up in the newspaper frequently for various charges of corruption and improper conduct?

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
So, if the photorrapher gives those pictures to someone as a gift and lets them do whatever they want with the pix since he took them; can that person/s sell the pix legally since there was no agreement between this new person and the Zoo???
 
Just give away your prictures.... I've met this crazy photographer
who got all bent out of shape after I've taken pictures from his site
to use on my site and in brouchures i've printed. Can you imagine -
they guy demanded money saying images were his property... what a nut
case!
i think you need to take a good look in the mirror. its not that guy that's the nut. if his photos are his under the law then in effect you are a thief, just as the zoo guy would be if he decided to sell his shots without paying the zoo fees. it's not that hard to understand. take a moment and think about it.

--
http://flickr.com/photos/zygh/show/
http://zygh.deviantart.com/gallery/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gearporn/
-equipment in profile-

 
I don't know the laws in the US, but here in Europe the zoo has all the mentioned rights

But anyway. Your pictures are nice. They are from a technical point of view good to very good. But there is no image with which you could make enough money to pay the $250,- per image. I would ONLY ask them, if you have an image, which is exceptional good, so that th price will be high enough to compensate the $ 250.

--
Best wishes

Björn
 
First off, Paul, nice photos. I also commend you on contacting and negotiating with the zoo. Often times rules are created, but with cool heads and thoughtful planning, they need not be inflexible. After negotiations, you may come to an arrangement that would benefit both parties.

The posts stating that the animals need to be fed, protected, kept healthy, etc. are imo correct. An organization has collected animals, created naturalistic habitats and maintains the health and well being of these exotic animals for your and the public's enjoyment and education. All of this comes at a great (ongoing) cost to the organization. Benefactors and donors (as well as visitors' admission fees) offset these costs and keep the zoo open (sometimes barely) so you as a visitor and photographer can enjoy the opportunity to view and take some photos of animals you might otherwise spend thousands upon thousands of dollars tracking in their various countries of origin. Once you start making money from the efforts and goodwill of these benefactors, it doesn't seem unreasonable for the organization to realize a revenue stream.

As I mentioned before, the $250 fee may just be an arbitrary number, or starting point at which to negotiate. Previous posts suggested that some arrangement might be made to license images for the zoo's use in exchange for various concessions on the fee angle. What worries me about some posters' cries of indignation and suggestions that you circumvent the rules and sell your images on the sly, or involve lawyers, etc. is that you might make matters worse. A zoo director, if faced with an angry group of photographers threatening lawsuits may back down on images you've already created, but can very easily update the policies to exclude ANY camera with a detachable lens or tripod. Their reasons for this would simply be "health and well being of zoo visitors". Circumventing this policy may end up with you being escorted from the premises by the police. The zoo can defend this policy much easier to a judge by using the safety of the public as an excuse. What judge will take the side of the photographer, saying "Well, Ms. Zoo Director, I think the chance that an elderly patron tripping over Paul's tripod and breaking a hip, or a grade schooler being clocked in the face with a long lens as Paul tracks a bird in the aviary is well worth the risk. Therefore, I must strike down your rule prohibiting this equipment, in the interests of Paul getting some really nice shots"? It may seem unlikely that you'd cause this type of calamity, but a determined (and ticked off) zoo director could make your life very difficult.

I would just chalk it up to the cost of doing business (which it is if you're selling the photos), and do what you are doing...negotiating and entering a dialogue.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
--
Bill
http://www.shoeflystudios.com
 
It's all in how you interpret "commercial use".
No, it's how the courts interpret "commercial use" and how you will be advised to fight or compromise by your lawyer if you find yourself crossing the line or at least in an interpretive gray area and get caught.
For example, if I go and photograph the flowers at the Denver Botanic
Garden, there is no fee or restriction. But if I bring a model to
the same facility with the intent of producing a commercial shoot
using the garden as a setting, then I need to pay a fee to use the
facility in that manner. I've been to the Denver Zoo armed with D2X
and 70-200. No one questioned me or made me pay any fees.
You are misinterpreting the term "commercial use" if you believe it only applies to the model and "setting" examples above but not to a simple shot of a flower that you sell online. If you are directly profiting from the sale of an image, then that's going to be considered commercial use. Doesn't matter whether or not you had a model posing with the flower, etc. (It also doesn't matter if the flower is nearly indistinguishable from one you found on the side of the road. If the botanical garden can prove it was its flower, you're toast. The only question is the damages incurred and whether the botanical garden can impose its posted fee as reasonable liquidated damages.)
I generally equate "commercial shoot" with advertising campaigns,
model shoots and the like. I could be wrong.
"Commercial shoot" is not the controlling term here. What controls is how you are using the images created while on zoo property. Personal use and certain editiorial use may be ok. Selling/licensing the images in any form will trip the commercial use condition.

Lots and lots of (indeed, most) private, quasi-public and public institutions restrict your commercial (i.e., for profit) use of images taken while on their property. Museums do it. Stadiums and arenas do it. It should come as no surprise to anyone that zoos also do it. It is not a question of copyright law, it's a matter of general contract and property law.

--
My photos: http://www.pbase.com/imageiseverything/root
 
Regarding the zoo and their policy. Policy is one thing, but I doubt
that the policy is a contract. Too bad you contacted them. You could
wind up paying them a lot of money, and then not make any sales. Or
suppose you pay them 1 grand and then make 1 grand in sales you would
be working for nothing -- at least the animals get food and medical :
Your purchase of a ticket forms a contract with the zoo. You subject yourself to the explicit policies posted by the zoo, further subject to requirements of applicalbe common law (assuming you're in the US) and consumer rights laws that may apply to you and the zoo. By paying and walking through the gates you complete the contract. You don't have any right to complain later that you were unaware of a photo policy if you chose not to review the policy before paying.

--
My photos: http://www.pbase.com/imageiseverything/root
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top