I really don't think DPR is biased against Oly

There could be a self-selection bias for people to deliberately pick
a brand that they know is the underdog because they want to have lots
of drama in their lives.

We all know people like this in really life, they go looking for
turmoil becaus they want it.

I can't help but think that some of the folks who purchase Olympus
are doing it so that they get a kick out off acing all offended and
hot and bothered over the "bullying" they receive from those bullies
who own Canon or Nikon.

Of course the people who I'm describing would never admit that they
are one, they would of course act offended, "how dare you accuse me
of such thing, little innocent me".

The excessive "victimization" going on in the Olympus Forum is fun to
observe. I'm a psychologist by training in for now anyways, the Oly
Forum gets my vote as greatest concentration of "victims". It moves
around. Before this, I think it was at Nikon. These
"victimization" folks would buy Nikon just so they can feel slighted
that their brand doesn't have Full Frame. I don't know where they
will move to next. Canon perhaps.

Again, I'm talking about self-selection based on the personality of
the people who choose a brand so they can "enjoy" being the "victim"
and acting out the "victim" role.

--
Praying for Pro level 8mp FF and 10mp 1.6X Canon. Delusion that
Canon and Oly will make a 200-400 f4:)
Oh yeah...that's why I bought an Oly...what drivel.

Classic over analysis.

--
Keep your lens clean and your mind open.

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/
 
Every person, in every act is biased or differentially weigh decision relevant attributes.

Of course, the word "biased" is employed only when you do not agree with the conclusion. A decision is "insightiful" "shows discriminating taste" "fair" or corect" if it agrees with yours.

I love it when people honestly believe that they are fair minded and untainted by prejudices.

I have more respect with posters who says something like

"Well, I have the money, and I need to have the best gear, even though I don't need it. So please tell me what is the cat's meow right now and I'll buy it."

--

Praying for Pro level 8mp FF and 10mp 1.6X Canon. Delusion that Canon and Oly will make a 200-400 f4:)
 
I would agree with you. I don't sense a bias one way or another. The lenses actually seem to be liked quite well compared with other manufacturers.

I think that for the most part the subjective areas of the reviews appear to emphasize the stand out areas of performance for each camera, good and bad. And in fact, most of the material presented is objective test results that are what they are.

I actually believe the E-330 review was impartial even though real world results have shown the camera to be able to produce excellent images. The image quality and WB were significantly improved with the first firmware update and I think that would have made quite a difference in the reviewer's overall rating had it been released prior to the release of the review.

Dan
--
Student, Mentor, Philosopher, Servant, Father, Husband
 
The first E-330 firmware update improved IQ and white balance? Mine is still on firmware 1.0, as I've taken a "if it aint broke, don't fix it" approach to firmware updates, given the damage they can do if you stuff them up. How is the IQ improved exactly?
 
The first E-330 firmware update improved IQ and white balance? Mine
is still on firmware 1.0, as I've taken a "if it aint broke, don't
fix it" approach to firmware updates, given the damage they can do if
you stuff them up. How is the IQ improved exactly?
It seemed to be easier to get more accurate reds after updating to 1.1. I also think the "auto" WB was a bit better.

This is my subjective opinion. I feel like less PP is necessary to get the WB nailed down.

Dan

--
Student, Mentor, Philosopher, Servant, Father, Husband
 
with the first firmware upgrade, can't remember what now. On that basis alone you really should install it BUT it broke most of the RAW processors, which were never really fixed, so you'd really want to be using Studio...

I'd look into it if I were use, it wasn't a trivial change.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
 
Let's face it: if there was a bias against Oly, then how come their
lenses keep getting such good reviews? The reason is that lenses
don't involve many ergonomic considerations, and characterising their
performance is a lot less complex and subjective than reviewing a
camera body.
I'd argue that the reason is lenses are tested according to strict technical criteria, and then scored against those criteria. I could pick up a lens and dislike its finish, dislike its action when zooming/focusing, dislike the colour it's painted, dislike its hood, and dislike any tripod mount it may have.

But if all of those things function well enough, and it gets good test results, then I have to write it up as a good lens - otherwise, the data and my review conflict and I have a bad review.

I may throw in a note at the end saying I dislike these various things, but I will have to make it clear that these things are my personal choice, and that it got good test results.
Hence, the apparant "bias" against Oly isn't really bias at all -
it's just the inevatible subjectivity that will creep into any review
of a camera that is done by a human being.
Subjectivity creeps in, yes.

But camera bodies do not appear to be reviewed in the same way as lenses. There is a lot more subjectivity involved. Some tests involve timings or image analysis, but even those don't necessarily free them of perception as they're not always precise tests.

That allows personal perceptions and preferences to be reinforced.

This can be removed, and one good way to do so is to make the reviewing process revolve much more around data.

For example, I recently entered a photographic scavenger hunt. Each person submits 10 photos, one for each of the topics. With about 120 photos to review before I could cast my vote for the winner of the best set, I had to do something to make it easier. So I decided to simply score each photo from 1 to 3 - 1 being a poor shot for the topic, or a poor photo. 3 being excellent.

The aggregate scores for some sets changed my view of whether they were good or bad - a strong steady flow of 2s with an occasional 3 meant that they could actually edge ahead of someone with one or two 3's but then a lot of 2s and 1s. The scoring system allowed me to average out the good and bad aesthetic reactions I had, and determine who had done well overall - not just gotten a reaction on one or two photos.

Without that, I'd probably have just judged each person's 10 photos on the best or worst reaction they gave me.

But I've become more and more convinced that most product reviewers have no such system, unless they find themselves doing a "group test". This is probably because it would be very difficult to produce an in-depth system for reviews, given how complex cameras are - and how rapidly they innovate.

Even so, I think a good system would probably be a simple "1 is basic, 3 is excellent" scoring system across a range of simply defined items like focus (static and tracking being different items). I say better because you'd probably find that most cameras at a particular level would always score very similarly - an E520 is going to get a similar score to any of its competitors in most areas with this system, and the few areas where it gets a 1 (focus) may well be offset by a 2 or a 3 in another area (size? configuration menu?).

The overall score may help the reviewer be more positive about the camera, or at least point out where its failings are. And the lack of a wide score range means that this isn't reduced to statistics masturbation - something is either poor, passable or excellent.

Note that every camera does already get a score at the end of the review, and some scores for specific areas too. But there's no criteria or testing procedure published for how that figure is arrived at. They could be rolling dice for all we know...

Of course, the other issue is that this system of scoring needs to be applied rigorously. Each camera needs to be evaluated in the same way, against common criteria. And whilst the image tests make it appear that this is so, I'm not convinced that the reviewers are handling and testing the functionality of the cameras with the same impartial rigour that they apply in the imaging tests.

--

Check my poster's profile for gear details: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hgiuidiuhdie
 
with the first firmware upgrade, can't remember what now. On that
basis alone you really should install it BUT it broke most of the RAW
processors, which were never really fixed, so you'd really want to be
using Studio...

I'd look into it if I were use, it wasn't a trivial change.
As long as you mentioned that...
I saw this post a few days ago.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=28470972

I was so struck by the tonality and color that I asked which RAW converter was used. It was SilkyPix. Now, granted, the camera was an E-3 (vs. my E-330), but I think I want to try SilkyPix on my own files. I may simply get lured into buying an E-3.

Sorry to get so far off the original topic of the post.

Dan
--
Student, Mentor, Philosopher, Servant, Father, Husband
 
I susupect you're referring to the ability to do auto focus in live view B? If so I don't need it, as I only use live view B as a DoF preview, which allows me to autofocus anyway (it conveniently switches to live view A and auto focuses when I half press the shutter, so it doesn't do the mirror dance when I take the shot). Or if I want to use live view B for manual focus, then I don't need AF in any case.

Anyway, here's the version history from Olympus:

E-330 Firmware Ver1.3 has incorporated the following upgrade.
[Modification]

- Improved the focusing accuracy when using the EC-20 Teleconverter.
  • Upgrade history *
E-330 Firmware Ver1.2 has incorporated the following upgrade.
  • AF is possible in Live-View B mode (macro live view). (S-AF operates in A mode (full time live view) by pressing the AEL/AFL button).
  • Improved exposure precision when taking pictures in the macro mode using SPOT metering.
E-330 Firmware Ver1.1 has incorporated the following upgrade.
  • Improved image quality of 10x enlargement in Live-View B mode (macro live view).
  • Live-View B mode (macro live view) can be used in underwater macro mode and underwater wide mode . (Only when the mode dial is customized)
  • Changes made to Korean Language
 
lol

I went with Oly because cameralabs.com said they were the best thing since sliced bread. I love that Gordon Laing chap.

Oh, and I got a 70-300mm lens because I have ***** envy!
 
I susupect you're referring to the ability to do auto focus in live
view B? If so I don't need it, as I only use live view B as a DoF
preview, which allows me to autofocus anyway (it conveniently
switches to live view A and auto focuses when I half press the
shutter, so it doesn't do the mirror dance when I take the shot). Or
if I want to use live view B for manual focus, then I don't need AF
in any case.

Anyway, here's the version history from Olympus:

E-330 Firmware Ver1.3 has incorporated the following upgrade.
[Modification]

- Improved the focusing accuracy when using the EC-20 Teleconverter.
  • Upgrade history *
E-330 Firmware Ver1.2 has incorporated the following upgrade.
  • AF is possible in Live-View B mode (macro live view). (S-AF
operates in A mode (full time live view) by pressing the AEL/AFL
button).
  • Improved exposure precision when taking pictures in the macro mode
using SPOT metering.

E-330 Firmware Ver1.1 has incorporated the following upgrade.
  • Improved image quality of 10x enlargement in Live-View B mode
(macro live view).
  • Live-View B mode (macro live view) can be used in underwater macro
mode and underwater wide mode . (Only when the mode dial is
customized)
  • Changes made to Korean Language
The official change notes on the E-330 have been published with each firmware release, just as you are re-publishing them here.

it is not uncommon to leave some firmware changes undocumented when they are not necessarily menu driven.

You seem to be satisfied with the current status of your camera's firmware version. I can't blame you for being reluctant to tinker with what you are already happy with.

Dan

Dan

--
Student, Mentor, Philosopher, Servant, Father, Husband
 
There could be a self-selection bias for people to deliberately pick
a brand that they know is the underdog because they want to have lots
of drama in their lives.

We all know people like this in really life, they go looking for
turmoil becaus they want it.

I can't help but think that some of the folks who purchase Olympus
are doing it so that they get a kick out off acing all offended and
hot and bothered over the "bullying" they receive from those bullies
who own Canon or Nikon.

Of course the people who I'm describing would never admit that they
are one, they would of course act offended, "how dare you accuse me
of such thing, little innocent me".

The excessive "victimization" going on in the Olympus Forum is fun to
observe. I'm a psychologist by training in for now anyways, the Oly
Forum gets my vote as greatest concentration of "victims". It moves
around. Before this, I think it was at Nikon. These
"victimization" folks would buy Nikon just so they can feel slighted
that their brand doesn't have Full Frame. I don't know where they
will move to next. Canon perhaps.

Again, I'm talking about self-selection based on the personality of
the people who choose a brand so they can "enjoy" being the "victim"
and acting out the "victim" role.

--
Praying for Pro level 8mp FF and 10mp 1.6X Canon. Delusion that
Canon and Oly will make a 200-400 f4:)
Oh yeah...that's why I bought an Oly...what drivel.
Really Peter, what did you expect? "I'm a psychologist by training".
Classic over analysis.

--
Keep your lens clean and your mind open.

http://www.pbase.com/peterb/
--
Neil MacDonald
NB Canada
http://nrmdisk.smugmug.com/
Olympus E-330, 14-42mm, 40-150mm
Olympus E-510, 70-300mm

Feel free to comment, critique or PP for educational purposes.

 
I believe DPR has slightly different assessment criteria than I do.

I think they're assessing body performance (exposure, white balance, DR, noise, speed, resolution, etc.) and giving partial credit for build quality and ergonomics/handling and lesser credit for interesting non-traditional features. That's their mix of criteria; it doesn't match mine perfectly but it's quite rationale and may even be mainstream.

I read the reviews for content and form my own opinion based on my mix of wants and needs.

How does Olympus stack up for traditional body performance? I think they're competitive but I don't think they're best in class. But I'm not seeking best in class traditional performance. The shooting experience is as important to me as the final image quality. And the image quality I'm after has more to do with dynamic range (JPEG and RAW) and tone curves (JPEG) than resolution. I don't usually print huge and when I do I expect to view from reasonable distances; and I don't usually crop a ton (except in camera; film is pretty cheap with these DSLRs!). But I'm also a huge fan of ergonomics (E-1 handling) and I'm intrigued by interesting features and how they can help my photography (Live View A and articulated screen of E-330). I don't (usually) shoot sports, so outright speed isn't so critical.

BUT... it's important to note that they're reviewing bodies (mostly). I chose Olympus gear for the lenses. Yes, I'm happy with the bodies too, but I'm here because of the lenses. And the value.
 
you could get E-3 to lie back and tell you about his father, E-1?

You could be right (I sincerely doubt it!). I can't imagine people having so much time on their hands that they could even think like that.

Are some insecure though in their choice of equipment and seeking confiirmation from others? Maybe. That's quite natural.
 
silkypix +1
 

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