Yes, if they were presnted in the same way, yes I would.
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Street summer fashions
- Thread starter Jim Kaye
- Start date
Print few "business cards" and next time, before pushing shutter
release, approach each one for a minute, give her the card, say "I'm
shooting 'summer fashion' series for a dp-review forum" (it'll sound
so important that nobody will realize that the key word is 'forum'
and ask them to pose/smile... and you'll definitely get noticed!
The key phrase in my reply, since you didn't notice, is "...something like that..." by which I meant just asking someone to take their picture and explaining what I was doing. THis was illustrated in the example that followed. You see, I didn't lie to anyone about "shooting a summer fashion serise for a dp-review forum." And I never said I did. So your statement (if you were talking about me) is a lie. Whether it was a deliberate lie or a statement you were fooled into making by your own blindness to any subtlety and "all or nothing" attitude is up to you to decide.
Here's what you said:
"Well from the photos you posted, it is not clear that you take photos of anything other than attractive women."
You did not specify "in this thread," and with around 5 years of my having posted on DPReview, any reasonable person would have checked my posting history a bit before making a comment like "it is not clear that you take photos of anything other than attractive women." But maybe checking into things a little bit wouldn't suit your "voyeuristic, sexist" stereotype of me and your "all or nothing" view of morality.
It's not an argument -- I don't have a "case" and this isn't court. You're the one being argumentative, right from your first post.
It's advice and a serious request. Take it or leave it.
--
Jim Kaye
'I believe that the electronic image will be the next major advance. Such systems will have their own inherent and inescapable structural characteristics, and the artist and functional practitioner will again strive to comprehend and control them.' -- Ansel Adams, 1981
kungfusion
Senior Member
In the context of the post, meaning that it was not clear in your post that when you are photographing people in the plaza/outdoor mall/ area that you photograph anything other than attractive women, based on the photos that you posted.Print few "business cards" and next time, before pushing shutter
release, approach each one for a minute, give her the card, say "I'm
shooting 'summer fashion' series for a dp-review forum" (it'll sound
so important that nobody will realize that the key word is 'forum'
The key phrase in my reply, since you didn't notice, is "...something
like that..." by which I meant just asking someone to take their
picture and explaining what I was doing. THis was illustrated in the
example that followed. You see, I didn't lie to anyone about
"shooting a summer fashion serise for a dp-review forum." And I
never said I did. So your statement (if you were talking about me)
is a lie. Whether it was a deliberate lie or a statement you were
fooled into making by your own blindness to any subtlety and "all or
nothing" attitude is up to you to decide.
Here's what you said:
"Well from the photos you posted, it is not clear that you take
photos of anything other than attractive women."
Nothing positive in it at all. Your self-centered moralizing and "all or none" attitude get in the way of your understanding reality once again. I've just wasted too much time responding to you and choose not to continue. You're not worth the bother.
And talk about missing irony -- for someone who claims not to be interested in what was posted here -- a few photos posted on DPReview don't matter a hill of beans to anyone but you, don't you know?
Or am I saved now by your blessing?
--
Jim Kaye
'I believe that the electronic image will be the next major advance. Such systems will have their own inherent and inescapable structural characteristics, and the artist and functional practitioner will again strive to comprehend and control them.' -- Ansel Adams, 1981
mlmusto
Senior Member
i don't think that is exactly the law, which is why we all need to get (even though many of us do not) releases for every such image if we want to publish them in any way.
the legal injury occurs with the publication giving rise to damages; commercial use would just increase/quantify it but a jury could award damages -- including punitive damages -- based on the act of publication.
not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just let you know the issue isn't exactly as framed in the prior discussion, at least from a legal standpoint.
we need to be careful out there, and know our rights -- and the limitations thereon -- esp. when folks are getting taken away and hassled for taking pictures of buildings/structures even when taken from public property.
but the mere fact you and subject were in public has no bearing on the legal right to control images of one's peson. so that argument is just a nonstarter legally.
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http://mlmusto.zenfolio.com/
the legal injury occurs with the publication giving rise to damages; commercial use would just increase/quantify it but a jury could award damages -- including punitive damages -- based on the act of publication.
not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just let you know the issue isn't exactly as framed in the prior discussion, at least from a legal standpoint.
we need to be careful out there, and know our rights -- and the limitations thereon -- esp. when folks are getting taken away and hassled for taking pictures of buildings/structures even when taken from public property.
but the mere fact you and subject were in public has no bearing on the legal right to control images of one's peson. so that argument is just a nonstarter legally.
--
http://mlmusto.zenfolio.com/
mlmusto
Senior Member
http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal/releases/
while the problem usually arises from commercial use, otherwise no one knows about it, unless it can be "editorial" (as in a book) one is out of luck w/out a model release.
--
http://mlmusto.zenfolio.com/
while the problem usually arises from commercial use, otherwise no one knows about it, unless it can be "editorial" (as in a book) one is out of luck w/out a model release.
--
http://mlmusto.zenfolio.com/
bossnas
Leading Member
Where are the original images from thew first post? I'd likt to know what all this discussion is about.
Thanks
N
Thanks
N
lightsaber
Well-known member
Good grief! A few innocent and wholesome street photos turned into a moral lecture by some narrow-minded elf. You need to find something better to do than injecting your brand of ethics.
OP just took photos of a few "attractive" women on the street (define attractive???). A few decades from now, women might be interested in seeing what popular attires were on the streets. What do you say about that?!
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Alex
http://SFviewfinder.com
OP just took photos of a few "attractive" women on the street (define attractive???). A few decades from now, women might be interested in seeing what popular attires were on the streets. What do you say about that?!
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Alex
http://SFviewfinder.com
Raidrallyrider
Member
This is a very meaningless argument. Some people have very dark minds. What's wrong if the op only took photos of young women? They are nice pics too. Thanks for sharing them.
thank you for my photograph
New member
The OP included street photos that happened to include women as subject matter. Nothing spectacular, just harmless test shots. I've seen worse on the cover of the Iranian Good Housekeeping Magazine. The righteous Elf was offended and badgered OP until OP was forced to remove the photos. In essence, The ELF read the mind of the OP to discover his true intent and saved the world (at least the dp review world) from further viewing. So before The ELF reads and perhaps alters my mind here are a few insightful and sometimes hypocritical ELF quotes from the past few months. Add these to the quotes contained in this thread and you have a pretty good profile of the righteous ELF.
4 days ago: Nice shots! I like that you included people in some of them, that adds a lot to them.
1 week ago: This is the kind of thinking that causes this S* T!!!
1 week ago: People risk their lives very day doing much stupider things, like climbing Everest for example, and what good comes out of that? Nothing!!!! Just stupid pride.
1 week ago: Personally I find your post to be insensitive and disrespectful.
1 month ago: Just don't read the link! It is one thread in the 5thousand threads to read, so skip over it if you are offended by it.
1 month ago: I am not a religious person, and I try to respect people and their religious views, but it is things like this that make me think that the world would be so much more peaceful without it.
1 month ago: Is everyone here content to just take sharp colorful photos of "things", or is there ANY interest in going beyond that? Judging from the hateful responses I think not.
3 months ago: I am a artist and plan on using the camera mostly for photographing my paintings in fairly cramped living spaces with track lighting, so no studio lights.
3 months ago: Funny thing is, is that as I was calling Sunshine, I looked at their website and discovered that they are located literally around the corner from my apartment! Like 2 streets down. How ironic is that?!!!! Too bad I had to have it shipped to my In-Laws in NJ to save on the taxes.
4 days ago: Nice shots! I like that you included people in some of them, that adds a lot to them.
1 week ago: This is the kind of thinking that causes this S* T!!!
1 week ago: People risk their lives very day doing much stupider things, like climbing Everest for example, and what good comes out of that? Nothing!!!! Just stupid pride.
1 week ago: Personally I find your post to be insensitive and disrespectful.
1 month ago: Just don't read the link! It is one thread in the 5thousand threads to read, so skip over it if you are offended by it.
1 month ago: I am not a religious person, and I try to respect people and their religious views, but it is things like this that make me think that the world would be so much more peaceful without it.
1 month ago: Is everyone here content to just take sharp colorful photos of "things", or is there ANY interest in going beyond that? Judging from the hateful responses I think not.
3 months ago: I am a artist and plan on using the camera mostly for photographing my paintings in fairly cramped living spaces with track lighting, so no studio lights.
3 months ago: Funny thing is, is that as I was calling Sunshine, I looked at their website and discovered that they are located literally around the corner from my apartment! Like 2 streets down. How ironic is that?!!!! Too bad I had to have it shipped to my In-Laws in NJ to save on the taxes.
larsbc
Forum Pro
No, you didn't. Please show me where you said this in your posts that I've been responding to. As far as I can see, you were arguing from the point that photographing people without their permission is unethical.
Also, exactly what about the presentation is upsetting to you?
I know that...I already acknowledged that. My point, again, is that you did say that photographing people without their permission is unethical. So be implication, that also means that street photography is unethical, even if you didn't specifically say so.
I figured as much.
Well, he didn't claim it was street photography or even good photography. I introduced the subject of street photography because you were decrying the fact that he photographed people without their permission and then posted the photos on the 'net.
So obviously you think using deception is ok, as long as the intent is, in your mind, ethical. So why even ask why the OP tricked people? It sounds like you're backpedalling. Walker Evans gets quotation marks around tricked while the OP doesn't?
larsbc
Forum Pro
Again, you're not basing your opinion solely on the photos. You're assuming you know the OP's intentions plus you're also basing your argument on how some people are reacting to the photos. Are National Geographic photos of topless tribes women in Africa pornographic because North American teenage boys ogled those photos (back in the 1960's or so)? What about the women's underwear section of store catalogues? Simple advertising or pornography for kids (again, back in the day before the Internet was ever invented)?
Also, where exactly was the OP "going on about how hot they are?"
Again with the attacks? Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm trying to "spin" this discussion.
So you're guessing about his intentions and using that, deciding whether photographing someone without their permission is unethical. So basically, the photos are unethical because you think you know the photographer's motivations.
So the only reason your argument doesn't apply to other areas of photography is because, again, you think you know the photographer's intentions? That makese no sense at all. The problem that photographers are having these days when photographing ceretain public buildings and structures is because the authorities (and people who think they have authority) are making these self-same assumptions.
No, it'd be the same. I'm arguing about the ethics, here, not emotions. And just because it involves someone in my family shouldn't change the ethics of the situation. Your "wife or daughter" argument is strangely reminiscent of the ones I hear when people are defending Homeland Security. "Too much security? Did YOU lose a loved one on 9/11?"
larsbc
waldbas
Member
From what I've read, you didn't do anything wrong Jim.
Wish I could have seen the photos.
I wonder how The Elf would feel if someone took offense to her "art" and wanted to censor it?
Wish I could have seen the photos.
I wonder how The Elf would feel if someone took offense to her "art" and wanted to censor it?
I think that if you look at the context of every one of my comments that you have taken here I bet you would agree with just about all of them. And I see that you decided not to include links to original posts, I guess it didn't help your argument!
You know, I am definitely not the only person on this forum that thinks that this post was uncalled for. When multiple people make a complaint that something is offensive, then shouldn't there be some kind of reaction to it?
He took them down because they were offensive and he recieved multiple comments about them being offensive, and not just from me.
Nonsense. I took them down to try to shut you up and get you to go post somewhere else. More posters' comments were postive or neutral than negative.
The photos are gone, and yet still you go on ranting. You are truly obsessed if you can't let go of your need to proselytize on this thread even now. Get over it!
--
Jim Kaye
'I believe that the electronic image will be the next major advance. Such systems will have their own inherent and inescapable structural characteristics, and the artist and functional practitioner will again strive to comprehend and control them.' -- Ansel Adams, 1981
Arielfelf, I've been following this post since the beginning and I have to agree with you that there is something a bit perverse about making images of attractive women in public without their consent and posting them on the internet.
I don't necessarily agree that there was anything offensive about the images per se, and while there may not have been any malicious intent behind the images, there is something strange about posting images of only pretty young women.
There wasn't the slightest hint of anything in the photos. They were of fully-clothed people simply walking down the street in the city! Nothing sexy, nothing suggestive.
The elf was offended that they were pictures of WOMEN. Period.
He wants us restrained from doing that! He has even said that he would stop women from taking pictures of men if he thought that they found them attractive.
Nothing more, and we keep provoking him into returning here.
He makes the taliban look like liberals!
Scary world.
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Z-Man
The elf was offended that they were pictures of WOMEN. Period.
He wants us restrained from doing that! He has even said that he would stop women from taking pictures of men if he thought that they found them attractive.
Nothing more, and we keep provoking him into returning here.
He makes the taliban look like liberals!
Scary world.
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Z-Man
Thank you fraserj1,
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