Tips for achieving greater detail in shots...

Being a new UZi owner, new to digital photography, and fairly new to photography in general, I often find my images lack the desired amount of detail.

After seeing the images some people on this forum shoot, and the tremendous amount of detail obtained, I feel I must be doing something wrong.

If anyone has any tips/suggestions/advice on achieving a greater level of detail in shots, I would very much appreciate it!

For example, nearly every shot in Ron Flowers' pbase gallery at http://www.pbase.com/rflowers/wildlife (hope you dont mind me linking your gallery, Ron!) has incredible detail.

In contrast, my images tend to lack that detail as seen here:



More of my 'less than desired detail' shots available here: http://www.divinyard.net/gallery/albums.php

Im open to any constructive criticism/suggestions that will help me take better shots.

Normally I shoot in 'S' mode, ISO100, spot focus, spot metering, IS on, AF on.

Thanks in advance!

Mind that you linked my galleries? Heck no, I just need to get your address so that I can send you a check for the plug and kind words!!!

Seriously, I think there's many other galleries... too many to list, but mofongo and daniella's always comes to mind... that are just much better examples. I'm still learning, but I'm having fun.

Most of the shots in my wildlife were shot with the b300 teleconverter attached and sharpness set to soft... the std. levels and unsharp techniques learned here are applied afterwards.

Ron

jaid said:

Being a new UZi owner, new to digital photography, and fairly new
to photography in general, I often find my images lack the desired
amount of detail.

After seeing the images some people on this forum shoot, and the
tremendous amount of detail obtained, I feel I must be doing
something wrong.

If anyone has any tips/suggestions/advice on achieving a greater
level of detail in shots, I would very much appreciate it!

For example, nearly every shot in Ron Flowers' pbase gallery at
http://www.pbase.com/rflowers/wildlife (hope you dont mind me
linking your gallery, Ron!) has incredible detail.

In contrast, my images tend to lack that detail as seen here:



More of my 'less than desired detail' shots available here:
http://www.divinyard.net/gallery/albums.php

Im open to any constructive criticism/suggestions that will help me
take better shots.

Normally I shoot in 'S' mode, ISO100, spot focus, spot metering, IS
on, AF on.

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/rflowers/

jaid said:

In contrast, my images tend to lack that detail as seen here:

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where the point of focus is. The squerril looks just slightly oof -- enough that you can obviously tell what it is, but not quite tack sharp. The same with the ground; it gets sharper as it gets closer to you, so maybe you wound up focusing a bit in front of your subject?

I would recommend using spot AF, and the smallest aperture ( biggest number, like f/5.6 instead of f/3.5 ) that you can get away with. And take a lot of shots, so you have more to choose from.

You should be able to pull off shots like this:

Agreed, maximize your depth of field in cases where you are unsure by choosing the smallest aperture size possible. I sometimes switch to aperture priority and set mine to 8 just to be sure. It sure would have been nice to have smaller (larger numbers) apertures to get larger depths of field but we do the best with what we've got right?

Spot focus (don't confuse this with the button on the top of the camera, that's spot metering) is extremely helpfull when shooting through trees/fences to make sure your point of focus is the subject and not its surroundings.

Many people have had good success with setting the sharpness in the camera to SOFT and then applying unsharp mask filtering during post processing.

--
Gerald Andrade
aka. Uzi Lovin Hawaiian
Honolulu, Hawaii

UZi_Lovin_Hawaiian said:

I sometimes switch to aperture priority and set mine to 8 just to be sure.

Click to expand...

If you do that and the shutter seems too slow, how much do you lose by upping the ISO from 100 to 200? I should experiment I guess.

--
Skip
E-100RS, B-300
http://www.pbase.com/candsrr

Yes shutter speed will get slower. You generally need good light to shoot this way. I use higher aperture settings and allways note the calculated shutter speed. When shutter speed gets slower then 1/250 I try to back off the aperture to avoid camera shake or blur with hand held shots.

A little practice and you'll learn the shutter speed threshold. By that I mean how slow the shutter can be and you still take good pictures hand held. When you find that point you can be more confident in upping the aperture settings.

Oh and I use spot focus allmost exclusively. My shots turn out so much better this way.

Skip said:

UZi_Lovin_Hawaiian said:

I sometimes switch to aperture priority and set mine to 8 just to be sure.

Click to expand...

If you do that and the shutter seems too slow, how much do you lose
by upping the ISO from 100 to 200? I should experiment I guess.

--
Skip
E-100RS, B-300
http://www.pbase.com/candsrr

Click to expand...

--
Oly 3030z & c-2100 UZI

jaid said:

Being a new UZi owner, new to digital photography, and fairly new
to photography in general, I often find my images lack the desired
amount of detail.

Click to expand...

------------------------------------------------------------

I had a look around your galleries and there is certainly nothing wrong with your photographic "eye". But many of the images do appear to be slightly OOF.

As others have suggested, you may want to try spot focus - but I'd be trying to eliminate the possibility of a defective camera at this point. Almost all of my shots are taken with the default AF setting and they're not soft.

Try to set up a shot with good contrast. Shoot in "P" mode and SHQ with everything else set at there default settings. Try both the default AF and Spot AF. Try to make sure that you have enough light so that shutter speed isn't a factor. Pre-focus and then gently press the trigger. This is just to test the camera's AF so don't worry about any of the other image quality factors.

Bill
http://www.goldenbcphotography.com

Hi jaid,
Welcome to the Wild and Whacky World of Digital using Olympus cameras!

I just add to what others have written...

1. Spot focus all the time..

2. Spot meter most of the time...but use the center-weight for shots where the subject in two types of lighting....use the iESP when the frame have extremes in light..

3. Use Aperature setting at f5 and -0.7 to -0.3 exposure...it will set the shutter speed...but start with P - Mode until you understand what aperature and DOF is.

See these tips and tests for post processing using unsharp mask...

http://www.pbase.com/richo/tests

Check the FAQ...and I have link to a message of what to do first!
http://www.richo.org/LearningCenter/faq_olympus.htm

Practice!!

Become a DORK and shoot the required shots...
1. A DUCK!
2. A Barn
3. A sunset (not the sun...you can damage your eyes and the CCD)
4. The moon
5. a dressed appliance (no nudity here..sorry)...or a still life indoors..
6. sefl portrait and post it in our http://www.pbase.com/olyfc area
user: olyfc password: olympus

One optional shot of: squirrel or flower

--
RichO
San Antonio, TX
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
http://www.richo.org/LearningCenter/faq_olympus.htm
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'

First of all, thanks for everyone and the suggestions so far!

Bill, I reset the camera, switched to SHQ, and took the following shots. Let me know if this is a poor choice of subject and i'll try to find something better suited for the test. Even in these shots, things just look slightly OOF.

http://www.divinyard.net/gallery/album13

Thanks again!

-jaid

Bill Pitcher said:

jaid said:

Being a new UZi owner, new to digital photography, and fairly new
to photography in general, I often find my images lack the desired
amount of detail.

Click to expand...

------------------------------------------------------------

I had a look around your galleries and there is certainly nothing
wrong with your photographic "eye". But many of the images do
appear to be slightly OOF.

As others have suggested, you may want to try spot focus - but I'd
be trying to eliminate the possibility of a defective camera at
this point. Almost all of my shots are taken with the default AF
setting and they're not soft.

Try to set up a shot with good contrast. Shoot in "P" mode and SHQ
with everything else set at there default settings. Try both the
default AF and Spot AF. Try to make sure that you have enough
light so that shutter speed isn't a factor. Pre-focus and then
gently press the trigger. This is just to test the camera's AF so
don't worry about any of the other image quality factors.

Bill
http://www.goldenbcphotography.com

Click to expand...

Looking at the wide angle picture.
The focusing looks fine.
Try the shot again, but with the following.
Select 'A' mode on the dial.

Press the 'Up' arrow on the cursor pad until you see 'f8.0' at the top of the screen.
Now take the picture.

I added the shots to the same gallery: http://www.divinyard.net/yrellag/albums.php

I took these shots from a crouched position as opposed to standing as I did with the first 4 shots. I wanted to try to minimize any kind of shaking as the shutter dropped to 1/40 or so, as opposed to 1/400 or so with the larger aperature. So if the angle looks a little different, thats why!

Thanks again for all the help!

-jaid

Skaliwag said:

Looking at the wide angle picture.
The focusing looks fine.
Try the shot again, but with the following.
Select 'A' mode on the dial.
Press the 'Up' arrow on the cursor pad until you see 'f8.0' at the
top of the screen.
Now take the picture.

Click to expand...

Should be: http://www.divinyard.net/gallery/album13

jaid said:

I took these shots from a crouched position as opposed to standing
as I did with the first 4 shots. I wanted to try to minimize any
kind of shaking as the shutter dropped to 1/40 or so, as opposed to
1/400 or so with the larger aperature. So if the angle looks a
little different, thats why!

Thanks again for all the help!

-jaid

Skaliwag said:

Looking at the wide angle picture.
The focusing looks fine.
Try the shot again, but with the following.
Select 'A' mode on the dial.
Press the 'Up' arrow on the cursor pad until you see 'f8.0' at the
top of the screen.
Now take the picture.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

You're quite right - the shutter did drop too low. I suspect the scene you're shooting is actually a bit darker than it appears in the photos.

All the same I don't see anything in these pictures to suggest there is a problem with focusing.

Yes, some of the pictures in your gallery do appear to be out of focus, but I suspect this may be user error :-(

Remember the Half Shutter Press/Wait for Focus Confirmation/Full Shutter Press cycle is essential.

Also the Image Stabilisation system takes about a second after the Half Shutter Press to become active.

I assume you are shooting in 'Normal' mode.

As Ron pointed out, many of us shoot in 'Soft' mode then post-process the images. The pictures that are put in the galleries are the processed pictures, and often bear little resemblance to the original.

Other users prefer to shoot in 'Hard' mode, as this gives very sharp pictures straight from the camera, though it can cause other problems. Some of the duck photos you may have seen on this forum are shot in 'Hard' mode.
Try changing to 'Hard' mode, and see if you prefer the results.

If you would like to know more about the different sharpening methods people use, let me know what image editing packages you use.

Skaliwag,

Thanks for taking the time to look over the pics and provide your opinion on things, I really appreciate it.

I suspect user error is probably the issue, I have only had the cam a little over a week now. I do always press the shutter half way, wait for the green circle, and then shoot. I wasn't aware that there is a delay for IS to kick in though. Thats good to know, as I have no doubt that on several occasions its close to and possibly under a second after the half press that I snap the shot.

I have been shooting in normal mode, as ive been trying to get a feel for aperature and shutter speed. I like to experiment with one variable at a time, as to not completely lose touch with what each setting affects directly. In camera sharpening was on my list of things to experiment with, so I guess ill bump it up and get to work on figuring out what looks best to me.

As far as an image editor goes, Im using photoshop 7 for now. Im not very experienced with it, however. About the most I ever do is crop/resize, and ive just recently been playing with the sharpening filter. I havent had much success with the unsharp mask techniques, as it seems to require that you have an idea what you will end up with by changing the settings. It just seems like too much guesswork to me. Ive had better success by simply applying the sharpen filter, and then choosing edit~fade sharpen, and fading 50-75%.

Ive read a few of the 'howto's out there, most dedicated to the unsharpen mask technique, but I just seem to 'see' a better result in my photos with using sharpen/fade sharpen. This, like my OOF shots, is probably again due to my inexperience!

Im certainly interested in hearing any suggestions you have regarding post processing.

Thanks again!

-jaid

Skaliwag said:

You're quite right - the shutter did drop too low. I suspect the
scene you're shooting is actually a bit darker than it appears in
the photos.
All the same I don't see anything in these pictures to suggest
there is a problem with focusing.

Yes, some of the pictures in your gallery do appear to be out of
focus, but I suspect this may be user error :-(
Remember the Half Shutter Press/Wait for Focus Confirmation/Full
Shutter Press cycle is essential.
Also the Image Stabilisation system takes about a second after the
Half Shutter Press to become active.

I assume you are shooting in 'Normal' mode.
As Ron pointed out, many of us shoot in 'Soft' mode then
post-process the images. The pictures that are put in the galleries
are the processed pictures, and often bear little resemblance to
the original.
Other users prefer to shoot in 'Hard' mode, as this gives very
sharp pictures straight from the camera, though it can cause other
problems. Some of the duck photos you may have seen on this forum
are shot in 'Hard' mode.
Try changing to 'Hard' mode, and see if you prefer the results.
If you would like to know more about the different sharpening
methods people use, let me know what image editing packages you use.

Click to expand...

Hello,

I don't think that the problem with your photo is the lack of detail, but the photo is blurred. Maybe you were too close and at full zoom? then probably you should have used the macro mode.

If a photo is sharp it will be more detailed. if it is out of focus it will loose lots of details. Also shoot at SHQ, the highest .jpg quality as shooting in lower .jpg quality will only make you loose even more details.

jaid said:

Being a new UZi owner, new to digital photography, and fairly new
to photography in general, I often find my images lack the desired
amount of detail.

After seeing the images some people on this forum shoot, and the
tremendous amount of detail obtained, I feel I must be doing
something wrong.

If anyone has any tips/suggestions/advice on achieving a greater
level of detail in shots, I would very much appreciate it!

For example, nearly every shot in Ron Flowers' pbase gallery at
http://www.pbase.com/rflowers/wildlife (hope you dont mind me
linking your gallery, Ron!) has incredible detail.

In contrast, my images tend to lack that detail as seen here:



More of my 'less than desired detail' shots available here:
http://www.divinyard.net/gallery/albums.php

Im open to any constructive criticism/suggestions that will help me
take better shots.

Normally I shoot in 'S' mode, ISO100, spot focus, spot metering, IS
on, AF on.

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

--
Daniella
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C700 FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

No problem.

Daniella may have a point. There is a known problem with UZIs incorrectly reporting a good focus when near to the limit of its focus. If the bad shots are all with about the same zoom and distance from subject, this may be the problem. Just try zooming out slightly.
I prefer to sharpen with a high pass filter - it works very well for Soft shots.
To do this -
Duplicate your Background Layer
With the new layer selected run Filter,Other,High Pass with a Radius of 2
Change the Layer blending mode of the new layer to Overlay or Soft Light
Overlay mode will give a contrast boost as well as sharpening
To reduce the efect just change the opacity of the layer.
To enhance the effect duplicate the new layer

Interestingly enough, during my experiments, I had noticed evidence of this. As i half pressed the shutter at full zoom, the VF image would seemingle focus, but then go OOF. So I tried a series of shots at various zoom ranges, and the two shots that were not at max zoom (one was about 45mm, one was about 58mm), seemed to be much sharper. The subject in question when i noticed this, was 50' away, perhaps slightly further.

Just to complicate matters more, I tried the same series of shots with a C-180 on. While the vignetting with this lens on the UZi makes any image much outside of full zoom useless, oddly enough, at full zoom things were quite sharp. Much sharper than the full zoom shot without the teleconverter.

Is there a 'rule of thumb' as to the range of zoom you should use for a given distance, or is it just another one of those things that takes a few thousand shots to get used to?

Also, is there a way that you can set a given zoom precisely? That is, I would like to continue with these test, shooting at say, 50mm, 55mm, 60mm, 65mm, and 70mm. It sure isnt easy to hit an exact number like that just using the switch. Can it be 'dialed in' if you will?

Thanks for the help!

-jaid

Daniella said:

I don't think that the problem with your photo is the lack of
detail, but the photo is blurred. Maybe you were too close and at
full zoom? then probably you should have used the macro mode.

If a photo is sharp it will be more detailed. if it is out of focus
it will loose lots of details. Also shoot at SHQ, the highest .jpg
quality as shooting in lower .jpg quality will only make you loose
even more details.

jaid said:

Being a new UZi owner, new to digital photography, and fairly new
to photography in general, I often find my images lack the desired
amount of detail.

After seeing the images some people on this forum shoot, and the
tremendous amount of detail obtained, I feel I must be doing
something wrong.

If anyone has any tips/suggestions/advice on achieving a greater
level of detail in shots, I would very much appreciate it!

For example, nearly every shot in Ron Flowers' pbase gallery at
http://www.pbase.com/rflowers/wildlife (hope you dont mind me
linking your gallery, Ron!) has incredible detail.

In contrast, my images tend to lack that detail as seen here:



More of my 'less than desired detail' shots available here:
http://www.divinyard.net/gallery/albums.php

Im open to any constructive criticism/suggestions that will help me
take better shots.

Normally I shoot in 'S' mode, ISO100, spot focus, spot metering, IS
on, AF on.

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

--
Daniella
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C700 FORUM: http://www.c700uz.com

Click to expand...

Skaliwag,

After giving this a shot, I must say I am quite pleased with the results. This will certainly join my list of actions!

Thanks yet again!

-jaid

Skaliwag said:

No problem.
Daniella may have a point. There is a known problem with UZIs
incorrectly reporting a good focus when near to the limit of its
focus. If the bad shots are all with about the same zoom and
distance from subject, this may be the problem. Just try zooming
out slightly.
I prefer to sharpen with a high pass filter - it works very well
for Soft shots.
To do this -
Duplicate your Background Layer
With the new layer selected run Filter,Other,High Pass with a
Radius of 2
Change the Layer blending mode of the new layer to Overlay or Soft
Light
Overlay mode will give a contrast boost as well as sharpening
To reduce the efect just change the opacity of the layer.
To enhance the effect duplicate the new layer

Click to expand...

Well, I think I am going to chalk most of my crummy photography up to a lack of beginners luck. Hopefully as the hundreds of shots ive taken, become thousands of shots ive taken, the images will begin to change for the better.

I think one of the main contributing factors is lack of good light and/or slow shutter speeds. Im going to try to find a location where i can maintain 1/400, and wait for the shot to come to me, instead of taking the shots at hand at 1/50. Hopefully that will help my shots at this stage of the game as much as anything.

Thanks to everyone that had suggestions, especially Skaliwag. Even if I dont see an immediate result, the post processing tip is a great one. I think ive concluded that the problem is my lack of photography skills, and at least I know that practice will improve that over time (at least it better!).

Heres a shot I grabbed a few minutes ago, still not the best of light, and not the shutter speed range I want to shoot in, but it turned out a little better. Its a far cry from the shots that id like to be able to achieve, but its a baby step in the right direction!



Thanks again everyone!

-jaid

jaid said:

Being a new UZi owner, new to digital photography, and fairly new
to photography in general, I often find my images lack the desired
amount of detail.

After seeing the images some people on this forum shoot, and the
tremendous amount of detail obtained, I feel I must be doing
something wrong.

If anyone has any tips/suggestions/advice on achieving a greater
level of detail in shots, I would very much appreciate it!

For example, nearly every shot in Ron Flowers' pbase gallery at
http://www.pbase.com/rflowers/wildlife (hope you dont mind me
linking your gallery, Ron!) has incredible detail.

In contrast, my images tend to lack that detail as seen here:



More of my 'less than desired detail' shots available here:
http://www.divinyard.net/gallery/albums.php

Im open to any constructive criticism/suggestions that will help me
take better shots.

Normally I shoot in 'S' mode, ISO100, spot focus, spot metering, IS
on, AF on.

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

If you are using digital zoom at all, I'd turn it off in a heart beat. It'll cause blurriness just like this.

jaid said:

Being a new UZi owner, new to digital photography, and fairly new
to photography in general, I often find my images lack the desired
amount of detail.

After seeing the images some people on this forum shoot, and the
tremendous amount of detail obtained, I feel I must be doing
something wrong.

If anyone has any tips/suggestions/advice on achieving a greater
level of detail in shots, I would very much appreciate it!

For example, nearly every shot in Ron Flowers' pbase gallery at
http://www.pbase.com/rflowers/wildlife (hope you dont mind me
linking your gallery, Ron!) has incredible detail.

In contrast, my images tend to lack that detail as seen here:



More of my 'less than desired detail' shots available here:
http://www.divinyard.net/gallery/albums.php

Im open to any constructive criticism/suggestions that will help me
take better shots.

Normally I shoot in 'S' mode, ISO100, spot focus, spot metering, IS
on, AF on.

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...