In the past three years, what has Canon innovated?

So, my question was, if Canon is
not going to incorporate features that already exist in other
systems, then what have they been bringing to the table in the past
three years that makes it easy to "forgive" these omissions?
To me, there's nothing to forgive. I'm more likely to use my 1Ds Mark III than my D3 because for the majority of photos I shoot (that don't require otherwise prohibitively high ISO), I prefer the image quality of my Canon to my Nikon. In fact, I prefer it to any other system I've ever used, and I've tried many different brands.

Bells and whistles are nice, but when it comes down to what's important, IQ is all that really concerns me.

--

 
Whats it to you that Canon should integrated every feature under the sun? If other cameras have better features, then switch. You're relationship with Canon is like your relationship with a cheating wife. You love your cheating wife, but you curse what she is doing, and at the same time you cannot make a move to divorce her because you are not confident enough, you are insecure.

Let me tell you. This is one bad state to be in. You need to seek psychologist immediately man.

--
Ben
Design is all I do.
bibikova.com
 
camera = toy (OK tool for some)
wife = family

They are not the same!
Whats it to you that Canon should integrated every feature under the
sun? If other cameras have better features, then switch. You're
relationship with Canon is like your relationship with a cheating
wife. You love your cheating wife, but you curse what she is doing,
and at the same time you cannot make a move to divorce her because
you are not confident enough, you are insecure.

Let me tell you. This is one bad state to be in. You need to seek
psychologist immediately man.

--
Ben
Design is all I do.
bibikova.com
 
I tend to believe that you, however, are a quick study and get bored
quickly. But I'm not sure if that's 'it', so I ask, why do you ask
that question? :)
Because I see features in other systems that I want, that have been
out for some time, that Canon has been slow to incorporate, even when
they did incorporate them at all. So, my question was, if Canon is
not going to incorporate features that already exist in other
systems, then what have they been bringing to the table in the past
three years that makes it easy to "forgive" these omissions?
I hope I didn't insult you (I meant "quick study" as a compliment).

Features, smeatures, is how I feel. I have Live View, but don't yet find a need for it. If I were really jealous, I'd buy into what I wanted. It's not like Canon is holding anyone hostage. Folks change brands, or carry more than one, every day.
Canon led the way, but now they're coasting with incremental
improvements that could have been implemented long ago. The greatest
example of this is the 20D to 30D "upgrade". Why did they not go
straight to the 40D? If they are going to choose against in-camera
IS, then why are there two 70-200 IS lenses, two 70-300 IS lenses,
three of which are recent additions, and no 24-70 / 2.8 IS? Why is
there an 85 / 1.2L II, and no 85 / 1.4 IS? Why is there a 200 / 2L
IS and no 200 / 2.8L IS? Why was Nikon able to make such a killer
UWA with their 14-24 / 2.8 in contrast to Canon's modest improvement
with the 16-35 / 2.8L II, and do so at the same price-point?

Where are the weather sealed 1.6x DSLRs? Do no 1.6x users shoot in
inclimate weather? Is that unique to Canon customers? Why is there
a Direct Print Button but no "real" Auto-ISO. The auto-ISO on the
40D is almost a slap-in-the-face. How could the 1DIII be released
with a defective AF system, which is the defining characteristic of
that line?

The 10D was innovative. The 300D was innovative. The 5D was
innovative. If Canon is not going to innovate because there is less
to do, then why hold back features that other systems have had for
such a long time?

ECF was in film cameras. Where is it in digital? What is Canon
waiting for?

It's frustrating when you see a pattern that demonstrates
purposeful holding back. It is not good business. How many
customers did Canon lose to Nikon when Nikon came out with the D3?
How many customers might Canon lose when Nikon comes out with a 5D
competitor? Am I simply naive? Is there a successful business plan
at work that calls for Canon to lose ground on the competition?
Are we talking about photography or Stock value?
And, most importantly, I like to *****. It just feels good. You
know, someone cuts you off then speeds away and then they get popped
by a cop. Doesn't matter to you whether they get caught or not --
they're gone -- but it sure feels good to see it happen. : )
Well, have at it, then. I still don't understand why this frustrates so, but that's not to say I don't have my own frustrations.

For that matter, I don't get upset at those who cut me off. Just the past year, I gave up that bs. I see 'em coming, and give 'em room. The folks that go from 70 to 35 as they move from the left lane to the exit they are barely missing, however. . . they should be made to RUN into a wall with their hands tied behind their backs! :)

--
...Bob, NYC

Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/btullis

 
The only thing they really innovated in digital has been the CMOS sensor...but then they only went that route in the beginning because they were cheaper to make, not because there was any advantage in the tech. CCD had lower noise than early CMOS sensors, lower power consumption and was able to work with a better data pipeline.

The last real innovations that Canon made that no one else had was fully electronically coupled lenses (the creation of the EOS system) and Image Stabilized lenses, but both of those really came along in the days of film.

Canon is a wonderful company, but their policy has generally been to simply move along with current tech and try and do it the best. They really aren't a leader in the industry, but then none of the companies really are. They come up with little bits of improvement here and there and all the other companies spend most of their time trying to keep up with each other.
--
Wow...that's a pretty killer camera! Are you any good?

-Jake-
 
Three years ago, Canon came out with the amazing 5D. What have
they done since that has not been done nearly as well as, if not
better, than the competition?
Why do you think, new innovation is more important than improving the innovation we already have?
-
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits! :)
 
I think you make a very good point. Never-the-less, Canon needs to push that lead out again. People talk about how they were the first with 14bit. The problem is, it didn't take a rocket scientist or competitors to impliment that and very soon after. So, Canon really wasn't an innnovator there. Now if they had 14bit years ahead of anybody else, that would be a different story. The 5D is much more of an innovation in a of itself. 3 years have gone by and nobody has a simliar priced unit. Then again, 3 years is a long time not to update a camera regardless of no competition or not. Canon could and should make a D3 killer and still undercut Nikon in the price. Regardless of price, something like the D3 is, so far, what people have wanted and talked about. The D3 was a coup de gra for Nikon in that it was the FF camera Canon has refused to make due to their being afraid to take away from the 1Dmk3 sales. That's a blaring roadmap issue if I ever saw one. Canon champoined FF digital and left a huge hole between the 5D and the 1Dsmk3. Many are hoping for the middle ground FF camera between it's own $2000 dollar model and it's own $8000 dollar model. Let's face it, in price and performance, that's a huge hole. Their roadmap may say, well then you buy the 1Dmk3 at the halfway point, but all you have to do is look at the success of the D3 and realize just how wrong that roadmap is.
--
I have a love affair with light.
 
If you claim that Canon hasn't brought any innovations to the table
in the last 3 years then what has any other manufacturer done??

What would you consider an innovation? What do you call the Digic3
processor, live view, higher ISO performance, higher fps, more
resolution etc.?
Some of those are incrementally improved features, which may or may not be classififed as innovations. An innovation is a novel/new way of doing things. And your live view inclusion is a mistake, since Canon cannot lay claim to that innovation (or call it a new feature if that makes you happy :)
No manufacturer has done anything different to the above really.

Rob
--
Hanging around here too long
 
Sure, sure. But it's been 3 years since the last party. Just a few
dinners and movies since then. And, sure, Canon could stun everyone
with some innovation up their sleeve. In the meantime, however, they
could start incorporating the features of other manufacturers.
be patient yound padawan, be patient, photokina is just around the corner ;)

http://www.pbase.com/mirko79
 
..great idea. Better yet they can use crop sensor and EF-S lenses
and shift them together to get a larger FOV.

This is actually the
technique used by modern photolithography to get the ever higher
resolution on larger wafers.
Possible... but just like with regular SLR lenses, I can imagine the corner softness affecting the images unless only the centers are stitched together.

I think creating a general public device (i.e. an APS-C camera) that's robust enough to move any EF-S lens around its mount is a tough one. There's a bulky device called GigaPixel that lets you put your SLR on it and it automatically creates a giga pixel pano shot from around 300 shots. I think a user here posted a link recently.

GTW
--
http://www.flickr.com/genotypewriter
They can easily shift an APS-C sensor around the image circle of a FF
lens, take multiple shots... automatically stitching them is another
deal but I'd be happy if they can just do the shifts and exposures.

GTW
--
http://www.flickr.com/genotypewriter
 
I'm glad you know
apparently for Joe its more.

--
Ben
Design is all I do.
bibikova.com
 
I tend to agree although Canon did introduce the groundbreaking D30 (if I'm not mistaken, didn't Kodak work with Canon on this CMOS sensor...?) also which is still one of my favourite cameras with its lovely IQ etc. But in terms of features, noise reduction, detailed adjustments and weather protection (in medium level cameras) Nikon seems to provided more advancements. Where they all lack and I feel need to advance is in the area of WB and especially in artificial light scenarios, and, arguably, metering. For me these are fundamentals and key to capturing the reality of the scene. For example: if it's difficult to provide accurate WB in camera then why not create a ST-E2 size and style of gadget that can be slid into the flash shoe and responds immediately to shutter actuation, providing the most accurate reading of the scene at that moment in time. WB is so critical to picture quality and accuracy and I feel is a challenge worth taking on. For me, the WB slider in PS3 is usually my first port of call. Read any review and you'll see, "WB in artifical light is poor..."
Tony
 
Oh, am I bitching? Yeah. Especially since I don't know what the
5DII will bring to the table. But I'm pretty sure that the biggest
"innovation" that Canon will come up with is splitting the 5D into
something like an inexpensive 7D for $1800 that's basically the same
as the current 5D that's a FF 40D and a 3D or 4D with maybe 16 MP, 1D
level AF with fewer AF points. Welcome additions, to be sure, but
not innovative.
Innovation by definition is something that has not been done before, and an entirely different way of doing something.

really hardly any company has done any innovation. is nikon's products innovative? no. perhaps a better term is progressive.

true innovation takes time. it's not dreamt up and released on a 18 month schedule - it takes years of R&D, planning, testing and at times, it's all tossed away as impractical.

you're complaining about "features". that's not innovation either, that's basically marketting bullet point watching - and you're not even considering the legal aspects of taking technology from another company as well.

what you are looking at especially with comparison to nikon is complaining really that nikon was asleep at the wheel for around 5 or 6 years and finally woke up and did some nice releases. canon's been far more progressive so it doesn't have the same "delta" appeal.

I'm sure canon could have easily released a 5d body when and if they wanted to - since we don't know what is in it, it's a little odd to assume they are not going to release anything innovative.
 
Three years ago, Canon came out with the amazing 5D. What have
they done since that has not been done nearly as well as, if not
better, than the competition?

The 1DIII seems on par with the Nikon D3 -- plusses and minuses for
both in a head-to-head, with no clear winner. The 1DsIII, while
apparently a great cam, is not innovative and will likely soon have a
direct competitor as well.

Canon did release the amazing 70-200 / 4L IS, which no one else has
an answer for -- props for that, for sure. But while Canon has
copied the competitors in some things, like live-view and, they've
still yet to implement features such as in-camera IS, auto-ISO,
anti-dust sensor shake, weather sealing (on non-pro cameras) -- and
all those features would not be innovations, but merely playing
"catch-up".
In camera IS is not compatible with in lens IS, because the gyroscopes in the camera senses movement, so it will move the sensor, but the in lens IS has already steadied the image before it arrives at the sensor, so the in camera IS would simply blur the already steadied image. Other camera makers shake the sensor because they already have a movable sensor. It makes no sensor for Canon to have a movable sensor since it would only cause misalignments.
So, have I missed something? Or are there no innovations needed? No
one finds a need for ECF, for example? No one thinks that on-demand
grid-lines might not be useful? No one thinks that exposure
bracketing with a single press of the shutter button might be cool?
What innovations do you want?
I mean, is it unrealistic to think that innovations might not be
expected from the leader in DSLRs? Or is it more a case of a "job
well done getting to the top let's kick it for a bit"?

Oh, am I bitching? Yeah. Especially since I don't know what the
5DII will bring to the table.
Your sentiments were expressed quite a while ago at the Luminous Landscape web site. Canon has the advantage in sensors, but it has few innovations.
But I'm pretty sure that the biggest
"innovation" that Canon will come up with is splitting the 5D into
something like an inexpensive 7D for $1800 that's basically the same
as the current 5D that's a FF 40D and a 3D or 4D with maybe 16 MP, 1D
level AF with fewer AF points. Welcome additions, to be sure, but
not innovative.
I think a more expensive full frame than the 5DMKII is possible, but it will probably not be released at the same time as the 5D MKII.
 
If the D700 is real, and it's a small, D3 FF sensor, 51 AF PT body for $3000 then I'd be really p*ssed. All this waiting for a 5D Mark II, and Nikon comes out w/the dream camera first? Canon would be dead.

Canon's a great company, but somethings wrong at the top. I've been in technical companies where that happens - management turns into bean counters and doesn't have a clue, the best technical people leave or retire and are replaced with fresh outs, scheduling and managing become more important than innovation.

Not being able to implement a simple auto-iso function, or the stupid direct print button, or taking years to add ISO info to the viewfinder, are sure clues of a dysfunctional company. Lets hope Canon can turn it around.
 
I'm glad you know
apparently for Joe its more.
...had to pick up my daughter from school, make her some food to eat, read with her, play a bunch, take a few pics, take care of my son (change the diaper, feed him, keep him entertained), eat dinner with the family, go for a walk with the family, take care of the kids after the bath, feed Kublai again, tuck Seven in bed, and then kick it and wath the Ultimate Fighter penultimate episode, followed by the Daily Show that was on the DVR.

So, what were we discussing again? I thought it was cameras, but I thought I read something about some presumptuous a$$ telling me to seek psychological help and how to raise my family. Or was I mistaken?

--
--joe

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/joemama/
 
If the D700 is real, and it's a small, D3 FF sensor, 51 AF PT body
for $3000 then I'd be really p*ssed. All this waiting for a 5D Mark
II, and Nikon comes out w/the dream camera first? Canon would be dead.
Well, I don't know what sales the 5D contributes to Canon, but I imagine it to be relatively small compared to the crop DSLRs, so I think it's presumptuous to say that "Canon would be dead". But it would be a huge blow to their main claim to fame, in terms of image. I mean, we all know the 1DsIII is the flagship, but I get the feeling that it is the 5D that symbolizes Canon's excellence.
Canon's a great company, but somethings wrong at the top. I've been
in technical companies where that happens - management turns into
bean counters and doesn't have a clue, the best technical people
leave or retire and are replaced with fresh outs, scheduling and
managing become more important than innovation.

Not being able to implement a simple auto-iso function, or the stupid
direct print button, or taking years to add ISO info to the
viewfinder, are sure clues of a dysfunctional company. Lets hope
Canon can turn it around.
Well, let's say the D700 is real. I imagine the 5DII will at worst be a lesser featured camera with equal or slightly better IQ (ala the 40D vs D300) at a lower price point -- something like a FF 40D at $1800, which simply makes Canon the less expensive and less featured camera company.

In terms of glass, neither Canon nor Nikon have any monopoly. Canon has the monopoly on fast USM primes below 200mm, and the superior 70-200s, whereas Nikon has the superior 14-24 / 2.8, possibly a superior 24-70 / 2.8, and a 105 / 2.8 VR macro which is a nice dual purpose 100mm lens. For now, Canon's glass suits me better.

But when you look at where Canon is now, and where it was, in terms of relative strengths compared to the competition, they've certainly either just slacked off, gotten arrogant, or have poor leadership. Well, there's another possibility -- that I don't know jack just armchair quarterbacking and Canon's been racking it in and saving a few surprises. But given that their last "surprise" was a 1DIII that had serious AF issues, I'm not betting on that option.

--
--joe

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/joemama/
 

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