Nikon D80 compares too? (Purchasing advice)

Hi, I was planning to get a Canon 450D however I was a bit disappointed in it's optical viewfinder now that I tested it, it's simply too small for me when I use glasses to look through it, I can't see the whole view...

So I've been looking at higher end cameras (the Pentax K200D, Nikon D40/D60 and Sony A350 had to my eyes about the same small OVF...)

The cameras I've looked at where the Pentax K20D, Canon 40D, Sony A700 and Nikon D80

Now all of these cameras felt a great deal better to handle and their viewfinders where IMO allot better than the entry level DSLR's I tested...

The price I see here in Sweden is allot lower than the other cameras, and since I originally was planning for a Canon 450D that's a very attractive price point to me... (on the D80)

However I'm afraid it's design might be a bit dated? If I've understood right it does not have any cleaning system for it's sensor just to mention one thing I thought of...

Also I guess the D80 should get an update soon, what are most rumours pointing at for date?

The price for a D80 in a reputable store in Sweden is 7000SEK body only
The Canon 40D body only is 10500SEK
The Pentax K20D body only is 11200SEK
The Sony A700 body only is 12500SEK
The D300 body only is 15000SEK

My shooting would be allot of indoors for articles for a website, shots of computer hardware mostly (PCB's etc...)

Though I hope to use the camera for private stuff allot too, landscape shots and well most things I find worthy of a shot

What I'm asking is would you today considering my requirements think it was a bad idea to get the D80? I'm not in any way in a hurry to buy a DSLR, infact I may hit myself a bit if I get the D80 after pointlessly waiting for the Canon 450D for a few months

Or would any of the other cameras I listed be a better fit for me? Or maybe one I have not thought of? Price is a concern but then again I want my camera to last so I don't want to cheap out on what I buy either...
Note; I currently have no SLR equipment...

Thanks for any replies and reading through my long post

I like my D80, don't let the "self cleaning" features sway you away.
I had an XTi (400D) at one point and the self cleaning feature was useless.
Not sure if the 450D improved on that.

Those cameras you listed which you like vary a lot in terms of pricing (mainly D80 vs the rest actually)
Should probably worry more about glass than body.

Anyway, if you'll be shooting indoors, then ISO performance should be considered. the best on your list would be the Canon 40D and D80. The other two are just too noisy IMO.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/truflip
truflip.weebly.com

Per Hansson said:

However I'm afraid it's design might be a bit dated? If I've
understood right it does not have any cleaning system for it's sensor
just to mention one thing I thought of...

Click to expand...

I have read that the D80 and newer Nikon models have an anti-static coating
on the sensor filter to help prevent dust from being attracted to it.
I can't say if this is a fact, but I haven't needed to clean my D80 in a year
and a half, but when I had a D70, I had to wet clean it every few months.

--
Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels

Thank you for your advice, for the Canon 450D I was planning on getting the kitlens, 18-55mm IS, and perhaps the 55-250mm IS aswell, plus a EF 50mm f/1.4 USM for my indoor photography...

What would you recommend for the Nikon D80, should I get any of the kitlenses it is available together with? Are they as "praised" as the new kitlens for the 450D?

Thank you, that is reassuring to hear

If you're not in a hurry to purchase, dare I suggest waiting for the fabled D90? Admittedly it will be a good deal more expensive than the D80, but it might not be a million miles away from the cost of a Canon 40D.

I can only comment on what I know, so I'll tell you about the D80.

Great camera that I have used a fair bit over almost a year and clean the sensor ones (just by blowing air), even though I am used to changing lenses very, very frequently. Really, a non-issue.

Nikon, from what I've read, has the edge over Canon in the flash system department. It sounds like your work could benefit from this. Do consider budgeting for an SB-600 or SB-800 if you can.

All the lenses are very good. I believe that the major difference between "kit" and "pro" (or kit and primes), is the ƒ value. I personally sold all my "kit" glass and bought 3rd party light lenses for most my zooms, at a fraction of the cost with 90% + of the quality (but this did require a lot of reading and testing!).

As for the prices you quoted, it seems to me that the cameras (other than Nikon) you mentioned are more in the range of the D200 rather than the D80. Based on the type of photography you talked about, in your case the differences between the 80 and the 200 are probably not worth the extra money.

--
Lito
D80 + Mac

I will see about the flash, generally I get blown highlights when using flash, since the PCB's are very reflective...

Good room lightning might be a better route, this of course isn't saying I wont get a good use for the flash in other areas...

As for the lenses, I'm still very undecided, what about their kitlenses, are they as good as Canons or should I look at selecting lenses myself and just getting the D80 body?

Thanks for your advice so far!

Per Hansson said:

I will see about the flash, generally I get blown highlights when
using flash, since the PCB's are very reflective...
Good room lightning might be a better route, this of course isn't
saying I wont get a good use for the flash in other areas...

Click to expand...

If you do get the D80, you can control the external flash with the built in wireless function of the D80 (commander mode). With that, you should not worry about the reflections as you can place the flash any where.

Per Hansson said:

As for the lenses, I'm still very undecided, what about their
kitlenses, are they as good as Canons or should I look at selecting
lenses myself and just getting the D80 body?

Thanks for your advice so far!

Click to expand...

From what I heard is that Nikon kit lens is a little but better than the Canon kit lens.

--
Chang

Look at http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/overview for good lens reviews. One of the pluses about the low and medium level Nikons is the generally better range and quality of the Nikon consumer lenses (while Canon does better with the range of professional level lenses). There are some very good and not too expensive Nikon macro lenses and fast primes for the sort of work you are talking about.

Nikon flash is generally superior, and if you get a camera with wireless control (the D80, eg) you can move the flash out of the camera axis and get rid of the reflections.

--

I've always loved taking pictures. Other interests incl motor bike...suzuki C90 cruiser, pushbike riding (just to keep fit after retiring),make things such as kitchens, picture frames,wood turning and other things out of timber (my forte when teaching).

I got the nikon D80 after a lot of homework. Came down to canon or nikon and the canon's felt tiny and tinny in my hand. I even had a pentax 50f1.4 and a 28f2.8 I could have used had I got the K20d. Nikon has better flash system. The D80 felt just right. As for waiting for the D90? well there will always be newer ones coming out, all the time. You will pick the right one. Graeme

What lenses would you recommend?

I looked at the reviews of the different kitlenses, the Nikon 16-85 3,5-5,6 G DX ED VR AF-S looks good, but a tad expensive perhaps

For my PCB's I'm thinking the Nikon 50/1,8D AF would be a good fit

I still haven't abandoned the idea of Canon either, the 40D has a very good cashback going, together with the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 USM IS kitlens it does not look so bad either...

Too many choices, but I think I will follow Graeme Field's advice below and atleast try to decide on a camera and then just buy it, no point in looking at numbers for too long (which I'm very prone to do btw no matter what the purcache is about)

The 50 ƒ 1.8 is a great, very inexpensive small and light lens. You cannot go wrong with it.

As for making your mind up on a brand... Have you gone to the store and hand-held both side-by-side? Have you tried the viewfinders and actually using the thumb-index finger combo to switch modes?

I was looking at the D80 and K10 at the same time way back, and having them both on hand (besides other differences) helped me decide in a second.

--
Lito
D80 + Mac

Thnx for your advice

Yea, I have tried both he D80 and 40D in a store (actually ion 2 different stores )

I do like them both, I think I will make my final choice when I go back to the store... But I would love to hear any other advice which might point my in any direction

D80 is a great basic dslr, very cheap right now, I'd say a bargain (mine wast 50% more in August).

D90 is probably coming in Aug/Sept, but who really knows? And price will be closer to 40D's.

Dated: except for liveview, which, IMO, still not that useful at present technology level, it's more camera than you'll probably need for many years. Dust cleaning? Can't say, no big IMO and probably not really effective when actually needed.

For tripod shooting of what you mention, it has all you need, including a time-delay mirror lock-up, which prevents blur.

For outside shooting, I'd say it's almost the perfect basic camera, to be used both in auto mode or manually.

Check my site below, all taken with it.

Good luck.
--
Regards, Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11435304@N04
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Get a kit lens with it, now the better ones are the 16-85VR and the 18-200VR, last is very versatile, all lens you'll need for everyday shooting, except sports and animals, for which you'll likely need a longer lens. In that case 16-85 + 70-300 is a better combo.

For indoors, tripod shooting, get the very cheap 50 mm f/1.8, it's top quality re image and very easy to use, including nice manual focus, good when using tripod and precise focusing. And it's a great portrait lens as well on the D80.
--
Regards, Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11435304@N04
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

All the cameras you listed are great cameras, you can't go wrong with any of them. What it boils down to is how the camera feels in your own hand. I recently bought a D80 and it's been wonderful so far. The great thing about the D80 now is the price... you can get a D80 + kit lens + sb-800 for a reasonable price. As mentioned, the flash commander mode allows you to wirelessly trigger a flash, so you can bounce it off whatever you want to reduce reflections off the computer parts you're shooting. Judging from what you wanted if you were to go Canon, the Nikon equivalents would be:

18-55mm IS -> af-s 18-55mm VR (I own this, pretty good for it's price. It should be as sharp as the Canon equivalent.)

55-250mm IS -> af-s 55-200mm VR (also own this, sharp lens, good price)

EF 50mm f/1.4 -> 50mm f/1.4 OR 50mm f/1.8 I assume you want the canon 1.4 over the canon 1.8 because of the build. The Nikon 1.8 has a much better build than the canon 1.8...

Also, the Nikon af-s lenses have what canon would call "usm" focus motors, so they will focus quieter than the Canons. The 50mm primes are still screw-driven focus, so they are noisy... we're still waiting for new af-s primes.

If you decide to wait for the D90, keep in mind that it will cost much more than the discounted D80 right now.

Just realized that the Canon 40D with 17-85mm kitlens is after the Canon cashback that they are running with now 12000SEK which is exactly what I would pay for the Nikon D80 with 16-85mm kitlens...

Given that they are at the same pricelevel does the Canon then have the advantage in features? Or is the D80 a better camera regardless of price?

Karl Gajonera said:

I like my D80, don't let the "self cleaning" features sway you away.
I had an XTi (400D) at one point and the self cleaning feature was
useless.
Not sure if the 450D improved on that.
Those cameras you listed which you like vary a lot in terms of
pricing (mainly D80 vs the rest actually)
Should probably worry more about glass than body.

Click to expand...

agreed you should invest on glass

i do actually need to clean my sensor after quite a bit of lens swapping. luckily you can just buy a rocket blower for about 8 euro.

knj2323 said:

Anyway, if you'll be shooting indoors, then ISO performance should be
considered. the best on your list would be the Canon 40D and D80. The
other two are just too noisy IMO.

Click to expand...

i know this one is way more expensive but the D300 is also on that list..very good ISO performance (based on info from reviews - i dont have one myself )

knj2323 said:

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/truflip
truflip.weebly.com

Click to expand...

just my 2 cents,

cheers Mark

Per Hansson said:

Just realized that the Canon 40D with 17-85mm kitlens is after the
Canon cashback that they are running with now 12000SEK which is
exactly what I would pay for the Nikon D80 with 16-85mm kitlens...

Given that they are at the same pricelevel does the Canon then have
the advantage in features? Or is the D80 a better camera regardless
of price?

Click to expand...

I'd say the 40D is in the next category above the D80, in most areas. For example, 6.5 fps vs 3 fps continuous shooting speed, a robust magnesium alloy body and newer features such as liveview. Remember the 40D is really meant to compete with the D300. The more evenly matched competitors to the D80 in the Canon line-up are the 450D (XSi) and prior to its launch, the 400D (XTi).