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Capture 1 - 4 by Phase One? > Help Please....

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Steve FStop

Steve FStop

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Hi guys,

Anyone using this on their Alpha RAW files?

Good 'bang' for 125 bucks?

I currently have an a100, which will become my back-up after the FF is released (but I will probably still go to the a700...LOL), and use LR regularly and I have just installed CS3 Extended (includes Bridge).

Recommend Capture 1 or do you prefer an alternative?

Should I wait for Capture PRO 4 to be released?

DavidK says on PcA that it is great for NR and KO’s ACR....even after only a quick compare of both packages earlier this year.

All opinions welcome and appreciated!

Thanks & Regards
Steve

--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
 
It depends on you needs. Capture One 4.1 is simple but efficient RAW convertor (I bought it a several weeks ago for processing of my A700 photos). It produces images with very fine noise and it has most of needed processing posibilities. But you may miss controlled BW conversion (no channels, no toning), red eye correction or retouching (all of this ACR has).

Currently we don't know what new functions the PRO version will bring but personally I hope it will worth to upgrade.
 
My A100 photos are all taken in RAW and developed with C1 4. This application renders A100 colors more accurately than Sony's own Image Data Converter does, and much better than LR/CS3. The rendering of skin color is particularly accurate. It also handles overexposed pictures better than other programs I've tested.

C1 4 deals with chroma noise very well. It's handling of luminance noise is less impressive, though, and probably not as good as that of LR. Working on high ISO pictures with Neat Image, I found it optimal to divide the labor in such a way that the latter only does luminance noise reduction.

For me, the user interface of C1 4 (which is very different from those of the 3.x LE versions it replaces) is very intuitive and easy to work with. It includes several tools that not all competing applications have, like the very useful levels tool and shadow/highlight recovery tools. It does not however have any retouching tools for local manipulation of images, and also lacks most of LR's more advanced tools.

The bottom line, though, is that in most of the cases in which I developed the same A100 RAW file with several applications, it was the C1 output I chose to keep.



Make: SONY
Camera: DSLR-A100
Software: Capture One 4 Windows
Focal length: 50 mm
Aperture: ƒ 4
Exposure time: 1/30"
ISO speed rating: 200
Program: Aperture priority
Metering Mode: Pattern
White Balance: Auto
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
 
You have some stunning landscapes there in Austria! My sister in-law was born in Austria and has always raved about it's beautiful countryside - she wasn't kidding me!

I cannot tell how much PP you have done (good that it is not so obvious), but your pics look nice and smooth!

Thanks again I really appreciated your feedback about C1!

Regards
Steve
--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
 
Roman wrote;
Roman Stedronsky said:
It depends on your needs. Capture One 4.1 is simple but efficient RAW convertor (I bought it a several weeks ago for processing of my A700 photos). It produces images with very fine noise and it has most of needed processing possibilities. But you may miss controlled BW conversion (no channels, no toning), red eye correction or retouching (all of this ACR has).
Click to expand...
Considering my investment in Adobe and the negative comments on ACR, I am pondering whether to go with something else like C1-4.1 or wait for some fixes in ACR. What would you do?
Roman Stedronsky said:
Currently we don't know what new functions the PRO version will bring but personally I hope it will worth to upgrade.
Click to expand...
That is one thing I have noticed with C1, they appear to support their current users with free upgrades!

Warren Sarle posted this comment in the Retouching forum;
Roman Stedronsky said:
Consider RawTherapee, which is very similar to Capture One in critical areas such as demosaicing, and is free.
Click to expand...
Have you heard of Raw Therapee? I haven’t......

I am thinking of buying an a700 tonight as I have noticed an attractive deal - nowhere naer as good as the BB 'fire-sale' but good just the same!

You must be enjoying your a700? Have you still got your KM5D as a back-up?

Thank you for responding to my question, I have learnt something new. I hope you are having a nice day in Prague...

Regards
Steve

--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
 
I also use capture one V4 with my A700 raws I really like the work flow and colour and quality I get from it. One thing i do is zero out the noise reduction sliders as standard and I believe the out put detail is second to none.
I have pretty much tried them all and have always come back to C1.

--
All post by Scott Bowman:-)
Please check out my Flickr page at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ttocs/
 
Steve,

I used the beta of C1 v4 and was pleased with the output. Having used Photoshop since v 2.5, I decided the better decision for me was to upgrade CS2 to CS3, and to purchase Bibble Pro.

You already have an investment in Photoshop. Why not give it a try with your new A700 before deciding. I highly recommend you pick up "Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3", by Burce Fraser and Jeff Schewe. A really excellent resource.

I find ACR 4.4 does a fine job with my raw's at normal ISO's. If I have some 1600 ISO shots or above, I run it through Bibble, and maybe IDC for comparison. Bibble has a couple of neat plug-ins available, including Ansel; a zone adjustment for tones.

As far as color, I think the standard A700 profiles in ACR 4.4 do a pretty good job. I did include a preset using both AdamJ's and Shaocaholica's color presets from this thread: http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22307

I would also suggest you read this article: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/noise.shtml , posted by Mark Van Bergh in this forum. Proper exposure is paramount no matter what raw converter you use.

I'm sure you'll become as enamored of your A700 as I am with mine. I look forward to seeing your images.

--
Regards,
Graham

'I am not young enough to know everything.'
Oscar Wilde
 
Milchtaich wrote;
milchtaich said:
My A100 photos are all taken in RAW and developed with C1 4. This application renders A100 colors more accurately than Sony's own Image Data Converter does, and much better than LR/CS3. The rendering of skin color is particularly accurate. It also handles overexposed pictures better than other programs I've tested.
Click to expand...
That sounds like you are very happy with C1 4.1
milchtaich said:
C1 4 deals with chroma noise very well. It's handling of luminance noise is less impressive, though, and probably not as good as that of LR. Working on high ISO pictures with Neat Image, I found it optimal to divide the labor in such a way that the latter only does luminance noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Yes, I get a fair bit of noise in my low-light/shadow shots @400iso+, like birds in trees and on a pond, late in the afternoon. I want more 'keepers'. Unfortunately, trying to keep to 100-200iso on my a100, with a 100-400mm zoom in these conditions usually means; if it moves is soft/blurred.

You have three PP programs? Do you have a peep at the RAW, before deciding which way to go? Not possible to come back from LR and then go to NI with RAW?

What version of Neat Image do you have? I see that they have a free download - but with limited features - worth a look?
milchtaich said:
For me, the user interface of C1 4 (which is very different from those of the 3.x LE versions it replaces) is very intuitive and easy to work with. It includes several tools that not all competing applications have, like the very useful levels tool and shadow/highlight recovery tools. It does not however have any retouching tools for local manipulation of images, and also lacks most of LR's more advanced tools.
Click to expand...
You say 'intuitive' - do you have a Mac?....that used to be a 'Mac only' word. Are some of the missing features you have mentioned in the PRO (not yet released) version maybe? I am not familiar with previous versions of C1, but glad to hear 4.1 is easier to use. Depending on the desired retouching maybe from C1 to CS3 for me? Once I learn how to use CS3 that is.
milchtaich said:
The bottom line, though, is that in most of the cases in which I developed the same A100 RAW file with several applications, it was the C1 output I chose to keep.
Click to expand...
Ah...now that is saying something and sending a strong message> Sounds as though most of your exposures are good from the camera or does your statement mainly apply to those with chroma noise.

Is that you or a friend in the pic you posted? Very natural pose and 'natural' looking production....not much PP in C1?

I hope to hear from you again....

Thanks and regards Steve...
--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
 
Scott wrote;
Pat Melone said:
I also use capture one V4 with my A700 raws I really like the work flow and colour and quality I get from it. One thing i do is zero out the noise reduction sliders as standard and I believe the out put detail is second to none.
Click to expand...
Interesting....are you saying that C1 deals with chroma and luminance noise automatically on import of RAW?
Pat Melone said:
I have pretty much tried them all and have always come back to C1.
Click to expand...
That is an encouraging endorsement of C1.

....I often read your posts, and must say I enjoyed your series posted on the weekend very much! And yes a bit of stress and controversy around here at present....but a nice distracting gesture of yours....sorry I didn't make the time to respond then - but as they say 'better late than never'?

By the way....I bought my a700 today!!! I was going to wait and see the FF offering, but decided not to (couldn't) wait any longer. My a100 will then become my back-up like yours did - in my mind it is worth a bit more than what you can get for them on e*ay at present?

I will be posting again soon and asking for some assistance/advice on rationalising my KM lens collection to help pay for my a700 and have just a few really good ones! I would value your input greatly. Please watch out for it - maybe not until tomorrow or the weekend (as it is 10:30pm Thursday) down-under and I want to ensure that I can respond to any suggestions that are made.

Thanks Scott - much appreciated....

Regards
Steve
--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
 
Steve FStop said:
You have some stunning landscapes there in Austria! My sister in-law
was born in Austria and has always raved about it's beautiful
countryside - she wasn't kidding me!
Click to expand...
THanks, yeah, it's well worth a visit, despite being really a speck on the map ; )
Steve FStop said:
I cannot tell how much PP you have done (good that it is not so
obvious), but your pics look nice and smooth!
Click to expand...
Well, most photos are straight from C1 without further PP.
best regards,
Bernd

P.S. I just saw that you live in Brisbane...funny, I had lived there for a year in the 90ies. I stayed in Kenmore, anywhere near you?
Steve FStop said:
Thanks again I really appreciated your feedback about C1!

Regards
Steve
--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
Click to expand...
 
Hi Steve,

I'm another C1 user, now in the version 4.1 which gave to A700 users an important improvement now being able to handle / convert correctly cRAW files.

I started to use C1 in august 2007 when P1 released the first beta, went through beta 2 and bought it. For me it was an upgrade from RSE and Sony's IDC. Even if I'm finding RSE's workflow unreached yet C1 satisfys me.

As others said one has to be careful with the noise reduction settings. Especially the defaults may lead to a plastic look in higher ISO settings (particulary on A100 shots).
--
Cheers,
Michael Fritzen
 
Graham wrote;
Graham Best said:
I used the beta of C1 v4 and was pleased with the output. Having used Photoshop since v 2.5, I decided the better decision for me was to upgrade CS2 to CS3, and to purchase Bibble Pro.
Click to expand...
Ok
Graham Best said:
You already have an investment in Photoshop. Why not give it a try with your new A700 before deciding. I highly recommend you pick up "Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3", by Burce Fraser and Jeff Schewe. A really excellent resource.
Click to expand...
OK Graham, now you are really starting to scare me! Are you a psychic or what! I have only JUST purchased my a700 > in fact about 4.5 hours ago ( 9:30 GMT) and up until then I had told NOBODY except my wife!!! NO JOKE! That is just freaky! And I am certain that my wife doesn’t have ANY boyfriends (period) and certainly none in the USofA! Please explain your insight to me? And be careful what you say - we have been happily married for 37 years. It was just a good guess - hey?

Back to earth now....

I recently purchased LR video tutes from Luminous and they are most useful - still going through them. Based upon prior experience and your recommendation, I will probably get the book. However, like others I will have to try and make time to read it, and even though I enjoy reading I prefer video - quicker results but not as thorough!
Graham Best said:
I find ACR 4.4 does a fine job with my raw's at normal ISO's. If I have some 1600 ISO shots or above, I run it through Bibble, and maybe IDC for comparison. Bibble has a couple of neat plug-ins available, including Ansel; a zone adjustment for tones.
Click to expand...
Quite a few around here endorse Bibble - must be good. Up until now - chroma and luminance noise were always on my mind, when I picked up my a100, and especially when something was moving and/or there was low light > I was always trying to somehow hang around 100-200iso. Not that these problems are now 'completely' gone upon arrival of my a700, but that is one of the main justifications for my new a700. My a100 will become my back up - it is still a great camera under the right conditions - which is most of the time anyway? I note that you still have your 7D too - I think this is wise.
Graham Best said:
As far as color, I think the standard A700 profiles in ACR 4.4 do a pretty good job. I did include a preset using both AdamJ's and Shaocaholica's color presets from this thread: http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22307
Click to expand...
I will look at the thread closely tomorrow - its getting late here > nearly midnight.
Graham Best said:
I would also suggest you read this article: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/noise.shtml , posted by Mark Van Bergh in this forum. Proper exposure is paramount no matter what raw converter you use.
Click to expand...
Again as above.
Graham Best said:
I'm sure you'll become as enamored of your A700 as I am with mine. I look forward to seeing your images.
Click to expand...
Again....I'm still 'freaked out' by this statement - How did you know...have you got a realy looooong lens on yours?

Thanks heaps Graham......for your detailed and informative response and I really appreciate you making the time. BTW Love your tag line!

PS This was in my previous reply to the previous post (above);
Graham Best said:
By the way....I bought my a700 today!!! I was going to wait and see the FF offering, but decided not to (couldn't) wait any longer. My a100 will then become my back-up like yours did - in my mind it is worth a bit more than what you can get for them on e*ay at present?

I will be posting again soon and asking for some assistance/advice on rationalising my KM lens collection to help pay for my a700 and have just a few really good ones! I would value your input greatly. Please watch out for it - maybe not until tomorrow or the weekend (as it is 10:30pm Thursday) down-under and I want to ensure that I can respond to any suggestions that are made.
Click to expand...
Hope to also see your recommendations......and ah yes....just 'slovenly' recommendations will be fine, no Highly Recommended's whatsoever are expected!

Regards
Steve
--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
 
Steve FStop said:
Roman wrote;
Steve FStop said:
It depends on your needs. Capture One 4.1 is simple but efficient RAW convertor (I bought it a several weeks ago for processing of my A700 photos). It produces images with very fine noise and it has most of needed processing possibilities. But you may miss controlled BW conversion (no channels, no toning), red eye correction or retouching (all of this ACR has).
Click to expand...
Considering my investment in Adobe and the negative comments on ACR,
I am pondering whether to go with something else like C1-4.1 or wait
for some fixes in ACR. What would you do?
Click to expand...
In fact, ACR in the latest version is not so bad. I would say it is fully usable. But it cost much more because you must buy it with Photoshop CS2. ;-) If you need some of these things I mentioned Photoshop + ACR is one of possible ways.

Personally I would wait for final Lightroom 2. Beta version is very promising..
Steve FStop said:
Steve FStop said:
Currently we don't know what new functions the PRO version will bring but personally I hope it will worth to upgrade.
Click to expand...
That is one thing I have noticed with C1, they appear to support
their current users with free upgrades!
Click to expand...
Free upgrades are usually for minor update in the line - I buy licence for C1 4 and it is functional for versions 4.0.1, 4.1, 4.1.1. PRO version is a different line and I have 0 free upgrades for my licence (in PhaseOne's terminology). So I expect I will have to pay for upgrade to PRO version.
Steve FStop said:
Warren Sarle posted this comment in the Retouching forum;
Steve FStop said:
Consider RawTherapee, which is very similar to Capture One in critical areas such as demosaicing, and is free.
Click to expand...
Have you heard of Raw Therapee? I haven’t......
Click to expand...
I tested it a several months ago together with other RAW converters... and I wasn't satisfied. Unfortunately I can't remember why - too much tested applications for keeping everything in mind...
Steve FStop said:
I am thinking of buying an a700 tonight as I have noticed an
attractive deal - nowhere naer as good as the BB 'fire-sale' but good
just the same!

You must be enjoying your a700? Have you still got your KM5D as a
back-up?
Click to expand...
A700 is great camera, fast, precise and clever designed. I enjoy it all the time. I still have got my Dynax 5D but I have never used it since buying A700. Probably I will sell my former lover soon... ;-)
Steve FStop said:
Thank you for responding to my question, I have learnt something new.
I hope you are having a nice day in Prague...
Click to expand...
I've been too busy today but I hope the night in Prague will be much better. I'm going to bed... :-)

Roman
 
Steve FStop said:
Steve FStop said:
I also use capture one V4 with my A700 raws I really like the work flow and colour and quality I get from it. One thing i do is zero out the noise reduction sliders as standard and I believe the out put detail is second to none.
Click to expand...
Interesting....are you saying that C1 deals with chroma and luminance
noise automatically on import of RAW?
Click to expand...
Sort of it has default settings depending on what ISO the image is which I find to strong so I have set it up to apply no NR then I apply it as I see fit.
Steve FStop said:
Steve FStop said:
I have pretty much tried them all and have always come back to C1.
Click to expand...
That is an encouraging endorsement of C1.
Click to expand...
It is probably due to the fact that I have invested a lot of time in getting the setting I like and have been using it for a couple of years I did go to ACR for awhile when it was the only one that would process A700 raws.

I really like the work flow of C1 but i guess that is different for others so I would say give them all a go and settle on the one that works for you. A lot of folk say good things about Light room I have never tried that yet.
Steve FStop said:
....I often read your posts, and must say I enjoyed your series
posted on the weekend very much! And yes a bit of stress and
controversy around here at present....but a nice distracting gesture
of yours....sorry I didn't make the time to respond then - but as
they say 'better late than never'?
Click to expand...
No problems I look at pretty much all the post here and do enjoy looking at the picture post to break up the other post.I probably should comment more then i do.
Steve FStop said:
By the way....I bought my a700 today!!! I was going to wait and see
the FF offering, but decided not to (couldn't) wait any longer. My
a100 will then become my back-up like yours did - in my mind it is
worth a bit more than what you can get for them on e*ay at present?
Click to expand...
Congrats I am sure you will enjoy it i think the FF will be out of my price range for some time to come.
Steve FStop said:
I will be posting again soon and asking for some assistance/advice
on rationalising my KM lens collection to help pay for my a700 and
have just a few really good ones! I would value your input greatly.
Please watch out for it - maybe not until tomorrow or the weekend (as
it is 10:30pm Thursday) down-under and I want to ensure that I can
respond to any suggestions that are made.
Click to expand...
I will be on the look out for it.
Steve FStop said:
Thanks Scott - much appreciated....

Regards
Steve
--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
Click to expand...
All the best

Scott
--
All post by Scott Bowman:-)
Please check out my Flickr page at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ttocs/
 
Steve FStop said:
Steve FStop said:
I used the beta of C1 v4 and was pleased with the output. Having used Photoshop since v 2.5, I decided the better decision for me was to upgrade CS2 to CS3, and to purchase Bibble Pro.
Click to expand...
Ok
Steve FStop said:
You already have an investment in Photoshop. Why not give it a try with your new A700 before deciding. I highly recommend you pick up "Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3", by Burce Fraser and Jeff Schewe. A really excellent resource.
Click to expand...
OK Graham, now you are really starting to scare me! Are you a psychic
or what! I have only JUST purchased my a700 > in fact about 4.5 hours
ago ( 9:30 GMT) and up until then I had told NOBODY except my wife!!!
NO JOKE! That is just freaky! And I am certain that my wife doesn’t
have ANY boyfriends (period) and certainly none in the USofA! Please
explain your insight to me? And be careful what you say - we have
been happily married for 37 years. It was just a good guess - hey?

Back to earth now....

I recently purchased LR video tutes from Luminous and they are most
useful - still going through them. Based upon prior experience and
your recommendation, I will probably get the book. However, like
others I will have to try and make time to read it, and even though I
enjoy reading I prefer video - quicker results but not as thorough!
Steve FStop said:
I find ACR 4.4 does a fine job with my raw's at normal ISO's. If I have some 1600 ISO shots or above, I run it through Bibble, and maybe IDC for comparison. Bibble has a couple of neat plug-ins available, including Ansel; a zone adjustment for tones.
Click to expand...
Quite a few around here endorse Bibble - must be good. Up until now -
chroma and luminance noise were always on my mind, when I picked up
my a100, and especially when something was moving and/or there was
low light > I was always trying to somehow hang around 100-200iso.
Not that these problems are now 'completely' gone upon arrival of my
a700, but that is one of the main justifications for my new a700. My
a100 will become my back up - it is still a great camera under the
right conditions - which is most of the time anyway? I note that you
still have your 7D too - I think this is wise.
Steve FStop said:
As far as color, I think the standard A700 profiles in ACR 4.4 do a pretty good job. I did include a preset using both AdamJ's and Shaocaholica's color presets from this thread: http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22307
Click to expand...
I will look at the thread closely tomorrow - its getting late here >
nearly midnight.
Steve FStop said:
I would also suggest you read this article: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/noise.shtml , posted by Mark Van Bergh in this forum. Proper exposure is paramount no matter what raw converter you use.
Click to expand...
Again as above.
Steve FStop said:
I'm sure you'll become as enamored of your A700 as I am with mine. I look forward to seeing your images.
Click to expand...
Again....I'm still 'freaked out' by this statement - How did you
know...have you got a realy looooong lens on yours?

Thanks heaps Graham......for your detailed and informative response
and I really appreciate you making the time. BTW Love your tag line!

PS This was in my previous reply to the previous post (above);
Steve FStop said:
By the way....I bought my a700 today!!! I was going to wait and see the FF offering, but decided not to (couldn't) wait any longer. My a100 will then become my back-up like yours did - in my mind it is worth a bit more than what you can get for them on e*ay at present?

I will be posting again soon and asking for some assistance/advice on rationalising my KM lens collection to help pay for my a700 and have just a few really good ones! I would value your input greatly. Please watch out for it - maybe not until tomorrow or the weekend (as it is 10:30pm Thursday) down-under and I want to ensure that I can respond to any suggestions that are made.
Click to expand...
Hope to also see your recommendations......and ah yes....just
'slovenly' recommendations will be fine, no Highly Recommended's
whatsoever are expected!

Regards
Steve
--
Shoot True - You only get one chance!
Click to expand...
I obviously assumed from quickly reading your original post, or from reading replies to others that you had actually purchased the A700. I can assure you I have no clairvoyant abilities, as my stock portfolio would clearly indicate. ;-)

I hope you will get some use from your A100. My 7D resides untouched in my bag since getting the A700. My thoughts of using it in conjunction with the A700, long lens on one, wide on the other, has proved to be rather impractical for my style of shooting. If the market was stronger for used 7D's, it would be gone. At the current prices, it's worth more to me as a true backup should the A700 need service.

I look forward to reading more of your posts and viewing your images. I think this forum will benefit greatly from your witty whimsy.

--
Regards,
Graham

'I am not young enough to know everything.'
Oscar Wilde
 
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