★ Wed C&C No Theme Thread #10 080604 ★

Hey, 10 weeks, who would have thought...!!

Welcome to the Wednesday Comments and Critique No Theme Thread!

Feedback is guaranteed!

This is fun and rewarding, and not longer an experiment.

Some don't understand it is about getting and giving. Last week we had quite a few self-centered posters. So many in fact that it made for a new record. Next week I hope we'll have a hall of fame instead?!

Here is the complicated but holy set of rules:

0: Contemplate if you want to get critique and also are prepared to give critique. If not just leave it for another time.
1: Turn on Threaded view

2: Click Reply and post a (= one, uno, 1) picture (typical 800 pixels on the long side and 200-300kB) giving the post an appropriate title, also check the "Long version" for more on this
3: Get back to this thread in a minute, an hour or a day or so, and

4: Still in threaded view, look at one or more pictures of your choice, click reply and give critique to it, also say thanks or leave a comment in return to those who have given your image critique
5: You are now entitled to post another image, in this thread or another week

6: Images posted later than 36 hours after this opening post are not guaranteed feedback. There is an end to everything. Late images may very well get critique, there is just no gurantee.

7: For more on all this, and why running the thread at all, please see the "long version"

Member said:

Member said:

I hope everyone understands that this is a thread for seeking and giving advice (for free = for what it is worth) and comments in general. Masterpieces, question marks, snaps, outtakes, darlings, failures, parts of projects - they can all fit here.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

You can find the thread from last week (#9) here:
http://forumsnew.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=28086282

Questions? Read the Long version. If you still are confused, mail me. The last version of the Long version was posted here:
http://forumsnew.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=28086299

regards,

--
Jonas

★ NB: A message from the watch dog ★

In the corner from #9:

Top self-centered posters were

Gerard (dragon1952) "Thanks to (...) for taking the times commenting really appreciate." and
Mike (maxwell409) "Feedback needed for future reference"

...who not only posted an image and received critique. They also posted modified versions, got reminded about the basic but holy rule #4 but never came back, just left.

More normal egotistic behaviour was demonstrated by:

devmage "I'm interested in critique and how to further develop skills in macro photography."
pinnacle "I don't have a lot of time to PP, so I just tried to post it as-is."

4 boys, I presume, that's a new record. Well, you now are in debt to the community and really should post an extra review before posting any other image.

Providing critique isn't easy! Maybe that's why we sometimes don't say what we think?

Here are some tips, or a "method" should you so wish:

1: Find something good with the picture. Something, if nothing else it is an effort posting in the first place.

2: Then your honest comments on things you think are relevant to mention; maybe something about:
First impression, later finds, motif, composition, processing, horrible elements
3: Check your comments contain something that can help the poster to improve
4: Does the poster need to get encouragement? Put it there.

5: The verdict: A family album picture, for the photographers own sofa book, for a real printed book, straight to the trash bin, for an exhibition

More here:
----------

http://www.naturephotographers.net/je1001-1.html
and many other places, feel free to add to this

Getting critique:
-----------------

1. You posted your image in this thread. Be prepared for any sort of comments!

2. Your critiquer may have good intentions, but may not be able to put it in nice friendly words... on line forums are not always the best way for human communication as all the expressions and non verbal ways we have to communicate face to face are lost. And some people have no manners anyway.
3. Take all critique, good/bad/thorough/terse, and try to learn from them.

--
Jonas

This is a placeholder for anything related to the C&C threads. And I mean anything - feel free to start a discussion about the threads, or how you felt when your image was trashed by some mean b@st@rd, or how it feels trying to say something polite about a cr@ppy image posted for review. Or something else.

--
Jonas

Lately I haven't felt inspired at all. I don't know if it is my schedule that have been too tight, or if I'm just out of it. I have hardly touched my gear for two weeks now. So, I pick one from the online archive:



©Jonas B, 2006, Taken outside the Louvre museum, Paris, France

This is one of the images I saved from our trip to France 2 years ago. More recently, 2 weeks ago I think, Roel posted a quite 2-dimensional grab shot with several layers in it. There was a, very brief, discussion about adding layers. Sometimes it work, sometimes it don't. I have no idea about what to do with my image above, or why saving it but I like it anyway.
What do you think? Don't hold back!

regards,

--
Jonas

Sometimes blown highlights can be a highlight!
--
Regards
Mike

Jonas,
I like that quite a lot and understand why it would be a keeper.

It's very nicely framed and has great depth and has caused this viewer to muse, "what were they thinking about?"
--
Troll Whisperer
Bill Turner

Recent Images:
Please do not edit my images without asking permission.
Thanks.
http://www.pbase.com/wmdt131

With spectral highlights (no one can control them) and silhouettes.

Here are my thoughts on this shot:

I think it needs some levels work. Granted I'm on my non-calibrated monitor, but I think I'd raise the black point a little to make sure the silhouette is totaly black. There's a fuzzy area between full black and enough detail in the shadows, and if your in between, then things just look off.

I think the foreground could use to be slightly sharper. Crisp silhouettes are hard to get, and often I have to resort to a pass of focus magic to "crisp-up" mine. There is also an issue of diffraction (not at the lens) but around the subject itself. I don't know what to do about that.

All the above is minor compared to one item - composition. A step or two the left would have placed the boats a little further away from the subjects head. Possibly a landscape orientation, mild WA (14 mm) closer to the subject, from a lower perspective? This would place the horizon line on the bottom rule-of-thirds mark. Combined with a leftward position to move the boats away, and the landscape orientation to give you more horizontal working room, would help I believe. This would also limit the spectral highlights to a lower overall area in the shot. With the horizon line half way up, they tend to dominate to much of the shot.

Could you include some equipment settings on this shot?

All that being said, I think there is potential in this shot if you have the ORF to go back and see what a little PP will do for it.

Thank you for sharing and listening.

--
Good shooting.

• Adam

Equipment in plan

I agree, I think this photo work well with us being able to see some of the guy, but it could look even better if it was darker
--
http://pix.ie/duffarama

This is a photo of a guy on a farm in Cuba making some fresh sugar cane juice, I don't have a photo containing his face... that being said, I like it but critique is always welcome

Oh and Jonas, I have learned how to post correctly this week!



--
http://pix.ie/duffarama

I'm in the process (albeit slow) of doing a series of photographs focused on depression and trying to get across to the viewer what it's like for the afflicted. Given that motivation here's my first photo. This one's obviously a composite (the three guys are me) and I wanted to pack it full of symbolism.

Some of the others I've shot are darker and even give me the shivers - having been there and done that. If there's interest I'll share them in follow on weeks.

Thanks for looking - Bill

I'll try to jump into the mix later today or tomorrow, but am too occupied right now. So basically I am bookmarking to find this thread easy if it goes off page 1 before I find time.

Even if I have no new picture to post, I will still try to give C&C (and maybe post an OLD picture, why not)
--
Roel Hendrickx
--
member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group ( http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg )

UKPSG presents a Tunisia E-3 user field report: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

Jonas - for the sheer artistic expression, this is probably my favorite of all you've posted so far. I get the sense that this POV is what a painting must have as it looks out upon the world.

As for the motivation - I know what you mean. Hope you get over it soon. I've started taking lessons and have been told that I need to put more thought behind my motivation before pressing the trigger so in a sense I haven't been taking as many photos too :^)

-Bill

I'd like to participate in this thread for the first time.

One of my favorite things about Charleston, SC are the gas powered lanterns. It is obviously a kick back to the days when candles were placed in the lanterns for light at night. Today, the look and feel continues on in a more 'modern' way through use of a constant gas source. None-the-less, I love the look.

One of the side streets down by the water has an old building converted into apartments and offices. Each door is evenly spaced, as are the lanterns. I like the image posted below, but I think there is more I can do. Perhaps once I receive my new (used) 11-22 (hopefully today!), that may expand my 'view' beyond 28mm (or in this case 42mm to avoid too much distortion from the angle I shot at).

Any thoughts or ideas on how I can improve this shot?



Thanks for looking.
--
Joe - Philadelphia, Pa
http://joecorvaia.zenfolio.com/

I like it a lot. This shot is very intriguing. At first, my suggestion would be to darken the two females - make their silhouettes really stand out, but then I had to reconsider. The female on the right is wearing white Nikes. Without the sneakers to give a sense of the time period, it could have easily been taken (or painted) some time ago. To me that is a moving image - it tells a story.

--
Joe - Philadelphia, Pa
http://joecorvaia.zenfolio.com/

Joe,
That view is screaming for 11mm! As is, it seems a bit cramped.
Re-shoot later today.
--
Troll Whisperer
Bill Turner

Recent Images:
Please do not edit my images without asking permission.
Thanks.
http://www.pbase.com/wmdt131

That is what I was thinking too.

--
Joe - Philadelphia, Pa
http://joecorvaia.zenfolio.com/

Jonas B posted what he calls a snap-shot:

Jonas B said:

©Jonas B, 2006, Taken outside the Louvre museum, Paris, France
With some comments and questions attached.

Click to expand...

I always like natural frames and the feeling of people watching people watching. Probably the voyeur in me.

By quoting your image I see its title, so I guess this was in the Louvre. That's odd, because I would have guessed Musée d'Orsay if you had asked me. But on second look the statues look like classics and not pieces from the impressionist era, so that should have made it clear also to me.

The two anonymous spectators are almost silhouettes but not quite, and I think that "dynamic range" (shadow detail) is a benefit for the picture. Silhouettes looking at a well lit scene is sometimes just too easy. I also like the nature of the frame and the space you have left between window and picture border. Good balance there. So the picture is OK in terms of composition, tones, exposure, etc.

Now what these women are looking at :

• You could debate whether it would be good to have no tourist in the statue area, but I like the human presence (especially the girl with red shoes who is reading and not watching statues).
• The statues are partly in hellenistic and roman robes, and some of them are nude. The most prominent statue presence (a Hercules type guy with the lion?) is well placed. Take a step in the wrong direction, and you would have had him covered by the women. Now he is right next to them, visible, and a clear focus for everyone's attention (both for us and for the women).

I like this one very much. Please consider it a keeper, upping the grand total for you last year from 3 to 4 (I'm just kidding here and following your lead, where in another thread you spoke of three keepers per year). Maybe I am too easy on myself (I probably am) but if this would be no keeper in my collection, then I would have very few keepers.

--
Roel Hendrickx
--
member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group ( http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg )

UKPSG presents a Tunisia E-3 user field report: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

I see here a big difference between the drab sky and the water that is very much alive, and that is a good thing.

I see a head on collision between a man's head and two boats. That is not bad (overlapping subjects would have been worse) but could have been better with a little more distance by taking a slightly different position (somewhat to the right and then look back at the man).

I see a head cut precisely in two by the horizon. That's not the best aspect of the shot : bending through your knees or getting closer would have placed more silhoutte against the sky. Alternatively, reaching high with your camera (if you have the benefit of an articulated LV this is easy) you could have placed the head completely against the waves.
Overall a pleasing image.

I think I will follow your lead for posting one of mine further down, making this into a thread with a spontaneous theme : highlights in the sea...
--
Roel Hendrickx
--
member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group ( http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg )

UKPSG presents a Tunisia E-3 user field report: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

Indeed, posted correctly, so that is a thumbs-up.

You have the benefit of a real-life story here, but I am afraid that if I must be honest, I would have to say that the picture is a snap shot illustrating that story.

You already mention the missing face. Imagine the same shot, taken from a lower viewpoint, grasping the view over the crushed canes and the machine into a face filled with concentration.

Another disturbing element (for me) is the hand without a body spinning that cogwheel. No way to cut that out of the frame, I am afraid.

--
Roel Hendrickx
--
member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group ( http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg )

UKPSG presents a Tunisia E-3 user field report: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

Dark in a funny way.
Like a hear no evil / see no evil / speak no evil trio.
Or like that T-shirt that illustrates good/better/best with :
1. a stick-guy and a women
2. a stick-guy and two women
3. a stick-guy and a playstation...

The symbolisms in your image are indeed quite obvious (and could have been more subtle for my taste) :

• progressing darkness of clothes
• progressing attitude with the game console controller
• progressively bigger bottle of alcohol
• and then those pictures on the wall behind them.

Symbolism, when obvious, loses a little of its symbolic value : they become images to be taken at face value again.

I hope I am not depressing you, but honesty is still the key in this thread... ;-)]

And before I forget to mention :
1. executed technically far better than I could do

2. another echo over the weeks, with Jonas' shot of him and his buddies in the train station couple of weeks ago.
--
Roel Hendrickx
--
member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group ( http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg )

UKPSG presents a Tunisia E-3 user field report: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html