a novice's experience swabbing his CCD

tae

Leading Member
Messages
673
Reaction score
0
Location
MI, US
My camera came new with dust included but it wasn't too bad so I removed it in PS. I was getting significantly more dust after a couple months and lens changes so I decided to swab.

Ordered a box of Sensorswabs and Eclipse solution, read about methods and homegrown implements. I wanted the "professional" version to get my feet wet. A pack of 12 is 59.95, ouch!! These must be the highest profit margin q-tips ever produced ;-)

The best info on technique is Thom's web site, but, no amount of reading makes up for experience! Determined to use only as many swabs as absolutely needed so heeded all warnings about angle of attack, wiping across the whole ccd, not lifting an edge, applying enough pressure, using too much fluid.

I put a 2 drops of fluid on the edge of the swab. I wiped across using one side of swab, flip, then the other. Hey this is easy no problem, looks clean! I took a photo expecting to see all dust gone. Nothing doing. The dust was in different places, a couple in the same places and a couple extra dust specs. Damn!

Ok, I'll get it right the second time. I adjust my lights in order to look really close, sure enough I now see the dust. You really have to look hard, it can be very tiny and very subtle but its there. Angle of light makes a big diffference, you really have to move the light around to see it all. Ok, now I can see the dust, I can remove it.

Second swab, 2 drops, wipe, wipe, look. Perhaps some dust is gone, but most is still there. No point in testing until I can see for sure there is no dust.

Third swab, 2 drops, applying more pressure this time. I thought I was applying enough pressure but I wasn't. Third swab got quite a bit of dust but I pushed it to one edge mainly. It is really difficult to wipe past the ccd since the border on one side is nearly zero and the border on the other side is about a 16th of an inch or less. I notice a couple dust spots are not budging at all, they are glued to the glass.

Fourth swab, 2 drops, wipe applying good pressure (its cloth, I'm not going to scratch the filter glass, get over it). Against Thom's recommendation I rub back and forth a little over the two glued on dust spots. One comes off, the other won't. I leave a whole bunch of dust all over the glass from rubbing and some streaks/spots from the fluid.

Fifth swab (now down $25). Perhaps need more fluid to dislodge tough one. 4 drops of fluid, one wipe. That worked wonders! Got the tough dust spots and quite a bit of the other dust. Still left it on the edge of the ccd. Need to wipe across better.

Fifth swab. The last swab doesn't look dirty, lets try reusing it. Bad idea. Leave streaks all over. Put more fluid on it, doesn't help, more streaks, dust moved around.

Sixth swab, 2 drops of fluid (got the tough spots better not get carried away with fluid). Pay attention to angle, try to get the thick pad back under the lip that surrounds the ccd so as to not leave dust on it. Wipe clear across and lift, twist swab, wipe across to other side and lift. Good but not perfect, I can still see dust piled up at the edges. Try blowing with a bulb blower. Still there. Perhaps, it won't show. Take a picture, sure enough piles of dust along the edges but clean in the middle. At least its progress.

Seventh swab. Thom says don't use too much fluid but too little seems a problem too. 3 drops, wipe, can still see dust. Blower doesn't remove it.

Eighth swab, 4 drops of fluid. Doesn't work. The problem is that there isn't enough room to really get past the ccd as Thom describes. The pad it too thick and when it butts up against the lip you leave the dust there on the edge. I have some pec pads, so I take the pad off the top of used Sensorswab and cut and wrap a single layer of pec pad in its place. A couple drops of fluid, wipe. It is thinner, and allows me to wipe past the ccd, but the pec pad doesn't absorb the fluid like the swab, it just lays it down on the glass in beads leaving a beaded streak across the ccd. Did get all the dust though, progress.

Ninth swab (down $45). Since I got the dust the goal is to remove the streak. 4 drops of fluid on the Sensor swab, carefully wipe. Not bad, streak is gone. Dust along one of the long edges. I thought these things were supposed to be lint free? They aren't completely lint free. There is a little stringy peice of swab and a couple dust specs. Try blower again but it won't get it off. Resist urge to use the swab again to lift the stringy thing.

Tenth swab, 3 drops of fluid, wipe. Looks good! Take picture, I only see one tiny spec in one corner. I can live with that. I am not going to get that last spec and risk more dust or streaks. Cost benefit analysis: one spec of dust is not worth $5.00.

Like a movie that doesn't quite have closure I walk away a little unfulfilled. I used $50 in swabs almost got the ccd clean and feel like if I do it again I will have the same experience. That is, I think it would take quite a few swabs (perhaps less then 10 but not 1 or 2) to get it close to clean.

What I learned:

1)The pad on the Sensorswab should be exactly as wide as the CCD. This way you could take a swipe with each side of the swab and cover the whole width of the CCD. If I come up with my own tool, I will make it the exact width.

2)The cloth used on the swab is better then the pec pad material because it is more absorbent. Sensorswab rarely streaks. I used the pec pad material to clean some lens filters after cleaning the ccd and noticed the same behavior. It tends to lay the fluid down on the glass in beads that then streak or leave what look like tiny water spots behind as the fluid evaporates.

3)I would love to get my hands on the pads of the material used on the sensorswabs (at a more reasonable price).

4)If I can find the right material I will try the tiny spatula idea, or the popsicle stick, but the pec pad doesn't seem to be good alternative.

Tom
 
Ok, I'll get it right the second time. I adjust my lights in order
to look really close, sure enough I now see the dust.
Students at my workshops know that I use a head lamp while cleaning my CCD. Allows you to direct light exactly where you need without using an extra hand you don't have...
Fifth swab (now down $25). Perhaps need more fluid to dislodge
tough one. 4 drops of fluid, one wipe. That worked wonders!
You need enough fluid so that the dust is more likely to be grabbed by the cloth than stay put. I tend to use three generous drops on my "swab."
Fifth swab. The last swab doesn't look dirty, lets try reusing it.
Bad idea. Leave streaks all over.
It's not just streaks that can be a problem. If you successfully picked up the dust/dirt/whatever, it is now lodged in the cloth, and you'll be dragging that across the filter. That's a bad thing, both because it tends to provoke streaking, but also because you may dislodge the dust back onto the CCD, or worse still scratch the filter if the dust particle is, say, diamond dust (yes, you can pick such particles up off the CCD without much fear of scratching, but you wouldn't want to drag them back across!).
Eighth swab, 4 drops of fluid. Doesn't work. The problem is that
there isn't enough room to really get past the ccd as Thom
describes. The pad it too thick and when it butts up against the
lip you leave the dust there on the edge.
Exactly. The metal frame around the CCD is closer to the edge of the CCD on the Nikon bodies than on some other cameras.
1)The pad on the Sensorswab should be exactly as wide as the CCD.
This way you could take a swipe with each side of the swab and
cover the whole width of the CCD. If I come up with my own tool, I
will make it the exact width.
DON'T DO THAT! Try this experiment: rub a wet swab against the frame edge. You'll find that, more often than not, you end up with one heck of a dirty swab. If you make your swab too wide, you'll have a tendency to dislodge any dirt/dust/whatever from the frame edge back down onto the CCD. One of the culprits in this ugly scenario is Nikon's frame design. While it certainly is solid and holds the CCD at the proper film plane, it also gets in the way of cleaning and collects dust of its own.
2)The cloth used on the swab is better then the pec pad material
because it is more absorbent. Sensorswab rarely streaks.
Agree. I believe that Kodak originally dictated the material used here, and they made a very wise choice. But note that besides the PecPads that come with the Eclipse, there are literally dozens of sources of lint-free cleaning clothes. Some day one of us will find the perfect one.
I used
the pec pad material to clean some lens filters after cleaning the
ccd and noticed the same behavior. It tends to lay the fluid down
on the glass in beads that then streak or leave what look like tiny
water spots behind as the fluid evaporates.
With practice you can get this to work well. I believe the porosity (sp?) of the material is the main culprit here, which works both for and against you.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
 
Students at my workshops know that I use a head lamp while cleaning
my CCD. Allows you to direct light exactly where you need without
using an extra hand you don't have...
Thanks for the reply, Thom. One question: after you do it a while, as I assume you have, how many Sensorswabs does it take for you to get it right? (not a "how many X does it take to screw in a light bulb" question)
-Tom
 
Hello Tae,

This is the reason I use the EXL single ply Kim Wipes very cheap only about $1.50 to $2.00 per box of 280 I believe . And the Q tips are in expensive as well.

Besides I found the sensor swabs shaft too flimsy for my taste as I like being able to "buff" or perhaps rub the sensor for fluid streaks with the much stronger Qtip stick.

However I also use a hit of carefully filtered air to finish off with.

Each to their own though ; )

Stephen
Students at my workshops know that I use a head lamp while cleaning
my CCD. Allows you to direct light exactly where you need without
using an extra hand you don't have...
Thanks for the reply, Thom. One question: after you do it a while,
as I assume you have, how many Sensorswabs does it take for you to
get it right? (not a "how many X does it take to screw in a light
bulb" question)
-Tom
--
On A Quest Seeking Vision!

http://www.livick.com
 
Having read that the D100 will likely have the same problems, you guys have just scared the D100 out of me. I am now leaning toward the D60. I was hopeing that Nikon would do something about this dust problem as I have a friend who has a number of Nikon lenses that he wanted me to try out with the D100. I would be afraid to do that now fearing dust from each lens that I tried out. I appreciate the posting as it has eliminated the D100 as a choice. Nikon...wake up!
This is the reason I use the EXL single ply Kim Wipes very cheap
only about $1.50 to $2.00 per box of 280 I believe . And the Q tips
are in expensive as well.

Besides I found the sensor swabs shaft too flimsy for my taste as I
like being able to "buff" or perhaps rub the sensor for fluid
streaks with the much stronger Qtip stick.

However I also use a hit of carefully filtered air to finish off with.

Each to their own though ; )

Stephen
Students at my workshops know that I use a head lamp while cleaning
my CCD. Allows you to direct light exactly where you need without
using an extra hand you don't have...
Thanks for the reply, Thom. One question: after you do it a while,
as I assume you have, how many Sensorswabs does it take for you to
get it right? (not a "how many X does it take to screw in a light
bulb" question)
-Tom
--
On A Quest Seeking Vision!

http://www.livick.com
--
L Sanders Sr
 
Hi, Tom,

That's all correct, the dust is there whatever you do, and CCD-cleaning is a nightmare, even after having it done 50 times. I still make the same experience like you when I try to clean my CCD properly. However, when I am out shooting in the field (wildlife, travel), changing lenses very often, in dusty surroundings, sometimes for several weeks living in a tent, no chance to do a proper cleaning of the CCD as no AC plug 500 km around, then I just forget about the dust. Only if there is a speckle which really is visible on the D1X monitor in enlarged mode, I use a blower to get rid of it. Being then back in my office I see the pics, and - of course - there is often some dust visible, particularly in the sky.

Of course this used to make me angry. But after some months I have cooled down a bit. The dust spots can easily be removed with the rubber stamp - about 10 sec of work, sometimes a minute per picture. In contrast, if I take one of my slides which were taken 2 or more years ago, and I scan them, then I have really a lot of dust to remove - sometimes 1/2 hour or more of work with photoshop.

Dust in the D1X really is annoying. But when photographing is your main goal, and not a perfectly clean CCD, then you can live with it. Just dont look too often to the white photograph, taken with f 16, after applying auto levels. This really looks frightening, but it does not show what the camera will finally show on the pictures.

Regards
Holger

Holger Schulz, wildlife tv
[email protected]
 
I bought the expensive swabs too and decided they are too expensive for what they do. I did some experimenting and came up with an acceptable, inexpensive method that works pretty well for me.

I have a lot of thin balsa wood scraps (left over from my RC flying days) so I made a "swab" from a piece 1/16" thick of balsa about 4" long, trimed to the width of the CCD. I then take a sheet of inexpensive Kimwipes EXL and fold it to get the number of layers I want over the balsa "swab". It took a bit of trial and error to get the width of the balsa just right, but for me it works as good as the expensive swabs. Balsa is very soft, won't create any scratches, and when used carefully will flex with gentle pressure giving even coverage. Your results may vary, but give it try if you want to save some a lot of money.
My camera came new with dust included but it wasn't too bad so I
removed it in PS. I was getting significantly more dust after a
couple months and lens changes so I decided to swab.
--
F. Dantzler
 
I could go on and on about dust, however I just don't worry about it any more, its just part of the mix.

However you should be using the n-swab, not the standard sensor swab. The n-swab is cut down and does fit exactly in the opening width wise. I should know I help photographic solutions test the n-swab.

2nd point, in your detailed note, you bring up the one great design flaw IMO about the whole Nikon CCD. Its down in a recess. Like you mention, this makes it very hard to get the dust of the CCD, instead it tends to go to the edge. One solution is take a 2nd swab and go up and down instead of horizontally. This will help to get more of the dust off.

3rd point, you can avoid most of it by not using a high end aperature, i.e. F16 or higher. Also if the dust has a sharp not fuzzy look, its on the lens or one of your filters. The dust on the CCD should be fuzzy not hard looking.

4th point, dont' let it ruin the show. I did for too long. You can't keep it out, you will never get it all off, even Nikon can't do that. Nikon chose a design that didn't really consider dust or cleaning. Kodak did, and their setup is by far superior. In my work I constantly use F16 or higher, as I shoot mainly outdoors and am taking time exposures. Yes I get dust spots, but they only show up in the sky, or a lighter subject like water. I can clone them out fine.

5th point, I used to preach this but gave up. Its the old ounce of prevention thing. I know that others might disagree, but you can help the issue my keeping everything clean. I change lenses in a bag out of the wind, I make sure the lens going on is clean, and I do it fast.
Since I stopped worrying about it, I find I enjoy the photography more.

Just some things to think about and I enjoyed your post, brought back many memories.

paul Caldwell
[email protected]
 
I could go on and on about dust, however I just don't worry about
it any more, its just part of the mix.

However you should be using the n-swab, not the standard sensor
swab. The n-swab is cut down and does fit exactly in the opening
width wise. I should know I help photographic solutions test the
n-swab.
I do have the n-swab (made for the D1X), but it is not as wide as the CCD. It is about 1/8" smaller then the width of the ccd.
2nd point, in your detailed note, you bring up the one great design
flaw IMO about the whole Nikon CCD. Its down in a recess. Like
you mention, this makes it very hard to get the dust of the CCD,
instead it tends to go to the edge. One solution is take a 2nd
swab and go up and down instead of horizontally. This will help to
get more of the dust off.
I'll give that a try next time.
3rd point, you can avoid most of it by not using a high end
aperature, i.e. F16 or higher. Also if the dust has a sharp not
fuzzy look, its on the lens or one of your filters. The dust on
the CCD should be fuzzy not hard looking.
This was definitely on the ccd. I used different lenses just to be sure.
4th point, dont' let it ruin the show. I did for too long. You
can't keep it out, you will never get it all off, even Nikon can't
do that. Nikon chose a design that didn't really consider dust or
cleaning. Kodak did, and their setup is by far superior. In my
work I constantly use F16 or higher, as I shoot mainly outdoors and
am taking time exposures. Yes I get dust spots, but they only show
up in the sky, or a lighter subject like water. I can clone them
out fine.
It doesn't ruin my show. I didn't mean my post to sound like I was complaining. I definitely don't side with those who would consider it as a purchase criteria. Just relating my actual experience in cleaning. It just got to the point where I was seeing it a lot because I was taking landscape shots with small aperatures and with sky in them.
5th point, I used to preach this but gave up. Its the old ounce of
prevention thing. I know that others might disagree, but you can
help the issue my keeping everything clean. I change lenses in a
bag out of the wind, I make sure the lens going on is clean, and I
do it fast.
Since I stopped worrying about it, I find I enjoy the photography
more.
Just some things to think about and I enjoyed your post, brought
back many memories.
Thanks, and thanks for the comments. I enjoy the camera immensely and this doesn't really detract from that. There are always bugs. In the software world when you switch softare we say you trade your known bugs for someone else's known (and unknown) bugs.
-Tom
 
I have a lot of thin balsa wood scraps (left over from my RC flying
days) so I made a "swab" from a piece 1/16" thick of balsa about 4"
long, trimed to the width of the CCD. I then take a sheet of
inexpensive Kimwipes EXL and fold it to get the number of layers I
want over the balsa "swab". It took a bit of trial and error to get
the width of the balsa just right, but for me it works as good as
the expensive swabs. Balsa is very soft, won't create any
scratches, and when used carefully will flex with gentle pressure
giving even coverage. Your results may vary, but give it try if you
want to save some a lot of money.
Frantz,

This is of course similar to Thom Hogan's method that he describes on his site http://www.bythom.com/cleaning.htm , by using the cut-down Wendy's knife. The advantage to the knife, for me at least, is that it's already the right width, and it has a waist of sorts to gather the Pec Pad around.

(If you want to use wood, have you looked into bass wood? It also is available at hobby shops, and is a soft wood, too. I think it cuts with a bit more precise edge when using regular cutting blades, and doesn't "crush" as easily as balsa does. If you haven't tried it, you might like working with it.)

I didn't like the sensor swabs because they only exert pressure in the center of the swab, and so settled on Thom's method. However, I do like the Pec Pads in combination with a hand tool, because the slight "sponginess" of the thicker material gives good coverage and pressure across the width of the filter.

Like you, I used to build models, and because I was used to working with styrene, making the tool from the Wendy's knife was easy for me. Some folks were not sure how to do this from a text description, so I have a page with photos and complete instructions here:

http://www.hilstudio.com/tool/CleaningTool.html

Make sure to vist Thom's page to read a very comprehensive article on how to use it if you make one, however.

Ron
 
I may have been too strong in my words, as I didn't see you complaining at all. I just wish Nikon would pay attention to some of this.

Believe me, what you describe is exactly what I did the first time, I watched that brand new box go from 12 to 10 to 8 to 2 real fast.

Whats interesting is how Nikon seems to be putitng more and more camera out very dirty. Someone posted a shot taken after Nikon had "cleaned" their camera and it was the worse I have ever seen.

What many don't realize is just how much dust is floating around in the average house room. To really do this right you need a clean room and that just isn't going to happen. Last time I cleaned mine, I turned the light up to look at the air in the room and was discouraged when I saw all the dust just floating around.

You didn't mention or I might have missed it were you using the AC adapter on the custom function of 8. Thats one other important point as many do this using the bulb setting and your CCD is charged and attracting even more dust.

If haven't already, take a look at the Kodak site, and look at their design. They put the filter right up front where you can get to it. Also its removeable so if you ever hurt or scratch it you can replace it. If the 760 just didn't cost that 7K,,,,

Take care, and again I really enjoyed the post.
Paul
 
What many don't realize is just how much dust is floating around in
the average house room. To really do this right you need a clean
room and that just isn't going to happen. Last time I cleaned
mine, I turned the light up to look at the air in the room and was
discouraged when I saw all the dust just floating around.
Yes, the room I used was pretty free from dust (I turned the light up too). It has been wet this spring and the night I did it was pretty damp which probably helped. I was worried about the solution picking up water vapor but it didn't seem to happen (probably takes some time to get water laden)...
You didn't mention or I might have missed it were you using the AC
adapter on the custom function of 8. Thats one other important
point as many do this using the bulb setting and your CCD is
charged and attracting even more dust.
Yes, I used the AC adapter. It was odd actually, I had the adapter on (and shutter open) for quite a long time near the end. I think the camera "crashed" at some point. I say this because once I finished I couldn't get the camera to respond to any command, in order to lower close the shutter. I had to pull the plug out which then caused the shutter to close and the camera to wake up.

-Tom
 
3rd point, you can avoid most of it by not using a high end
aperature, i.e. F16 or higher. Also if the dust has a sharp not
fuzzy look, its on the lens or one of your filters. The dust on
the CCD should be fuzzy not hard looking.
Paul,

How in the world could I reproduce particles from the filter or the lens surface when I take a shot of the blue sky at infinity setting? It is optically impossible to sharply reproduce a particle from the filter or the lens surface, which would only cause a very slight amount of light loss, practically not visible on the picture.

Julius
 
-The first thing I have tried is to blow the sensor with an air compressor.It removed all the dust except for one small piece. The air should be filtered and it is easy to find a 5µ filter in hardware shops (it is used for airbrushes).

For what remains, the tool suggested by Ron Hildebrand seems good. But can anybody explain what are "PEC PADS" since I doubt I can find it under that name in France!
Thanks
Francois
 
-The first thing I have tried is to blow the sensor with an air
compressor.It removed all the dust except for one small piece. The
air should be filtered and it is easy to find a 5µ filter in
hardware shops (it is used for airbrushes).
For what remains, the tool suggested by Ron Hildebrand seems good.
But can anybody explain what are "PEC PADS" since I doubt I can
find it under that name in France!
Thanks
Francois
Francois,

Pec Pads are packaged by the Photographic Solutions, who make the sensor swabs and sell Eclipse solution. Here's a listing on Calumet's site:

http://www.calumetphoto.com/default.taf?_UserReference=F82A226AAB3377403CFFE514

Ron
 
Hello Lorne

Be fore warned that the Canon's also suffer from this DUST problem as well. It part of owning 35mm interchangable lens digital cameras.

Don't be naive and think Canon's don't have it.

Digital cameras that don't have it are the Olympus line with the fixed lenses, the E- 20 etc.

They are a joy to work with as you never have to worry about the dust but you are definately limited in your lens choice

Stephen
This is the reason I use the EXL single ply Kim Wipes very cheap
only about $1.50 to $2.00 per box of 280 I believe . And the Q tips
are in expensive as well.

Besides I found the sensor swabs shaft too flimsy for my taste as I
like being able to "buff" or perhaps rub the sensor for fluid
streaks with the much stronger Qtip stick.

However I also use a hit of carefully filtered air to finish off with.

Each to their own though ; )

Stephen
Students at my workshops know that I use a head lamp while cleaning
my CCD. Allows you to direct light exactly where you need without
using an extra hand you don't have...
Thanks for the reply, Thom. One question: after you do it a while,
as I assume you have, how many Sensorswabs does it take for you to
get it right? (not a "how many X does it take to screw in a light
bulb" question)
-Tom
--
On A Quest Seeking Vision!

http://www.livick.com
--
L Sanders Sr
--
On A Quest Seeking Vision!

http://www.livick.com
 
Thanks for the reply, Thom. One question: after you do it a while,
as I assume you have, how many Sensorswabs does it take for you to
get it right? (not a "how many X does it take to screw in a light
bulb" question)
With my Wendy's knife, two passes. With Sensor Swabs, usually two swabs, sometimes three (that's four or six passes for those not paying attention).

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
 
One solution is take a 2nd
swab and go up and down instead of horizontally. This will help to
get more of the dust off.
I'll give that a try next time.
If you do a vertical swipe, start at the bottom and swipe up. Why? Because the CCD is inverse to the picture and you want to make sure the sky is clean! If you swipe the way the original poster suggested, you have a tendency to move dust to the top of the sky, exactly where it will be the most noticeable.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
 
Not sure how to respond. Bascially the general impression of dust on the filter,by filter, I mean the CCD filter directly infront of the CCD. The greater your aperature, the more obivous the dust becomes. Its a simple test to shoot the sky at F18 and then again at F7, then look at the images, you will always see more dust in the F18 shot in areas where dust will show, like the sky. If you do a autolevels command in PS then your dust count will go off the scale. I don't do this as most of that I don't see in my work.

Dust that shows up on the filter is inside the plane of focus i.e. sitting directly on the CCD filter, thus its edge will not be sharp but instead slightly fuzzy. Your image that the lens is throwing on the filter is in focus, the dust is not. Object thats are on the lens elements are in the plane of focus, or become part of the plane of focus. If you have a higher F stop, thus a great depth of field, then the problem just gets worse. You can see these particles as they will have a hard edge and actually stand out greater on the image. This dust is in Focus just like the image you are shooting.

I don't know the exact physics or laws of light going on here, however from my daily useage of the D1 or D1x, I have found this to be true.

Paul

[email protected]
 
2)The cloth used on the swab is better then the pec pad material
because it is more absorbent. Sensorswab rarely streaks.
Agree. I believe that Kodak originally dictated the material used
here, and they made a very wise choice. But note that besides the
PecPads that come with the Eclipse, there are literally dozens of
sources of lint-free cleaning clothes. Some day one of us will find
the perfect one.
Have you tried Opto Wipes, Thom?

http://www.cbsits.com/qonline/product147.html

They look interesting- from the description, it seems they could be similiar to either the swab material or Pec Pads, perhaps even a bit more absorbent than Pec Pads. Thought I'd try some, unless you or someone else knows something about them already.

Ron
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top