Canon hits a home run!

John Tracy said:

Because the world ecomomic situation has changed significantly in the
past year.
It will absolutely matter big time as the present world economy is
not going to receive entry level cameras with open arms that are
priced signifiantly more than the competition

Click to expand...

But... the EOS 450D is not an entry level camera. That is a common misconception. Canon's standard has always been to keep the previous model in-production, to serve as the entry level camera.

When the 400D was released in 2006, Canon kept the 350D in its production line. They kept the 350D in shelves, priced to compete directly with the D40. In fact, the 350D was readily available in most stores up until the 450D was announced.

When the 450D was released in April, the 350D was quickly phased out and the 400D immediately bumped down to "entry level' status. Notice that the 400D is priced competitively with the D60 in 2008, just like the 350D was priced competitively with the D40 in 2007. In fact, if you look at the megapixels, the screen size, the feature set, and the price... the EOS 400D is a MUCH CLOSER to the entry level offerings from Sony, Nikon, Olympus.

This may change this year, if Canon repackages the EOS 400D into the EOS 1000D, just like Nikon repackaged the D40x into a D60. But until then... the 400D remains the entry-level camera, not the 450D.

From Canon's PR:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012403canoneos450d.asp

---------------------------------------
Built for better photos

The EOS 450D is designed to make photography a fluid experience for photographers of all levels and experience.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--------------------------------------

And the design reflects this -- relatively small body with relatively huge LCD and non-intimidating control set (notably, just one control wheel); quite a few modes to make it easier for the novices incl. fully automatic green-box; pentamirror instead of pentaprism; 95% instead of 100% VF coverage; only an SD slot (no CF), which is likely directly targeted at people moving up from the very SD-happy compact-camera world.

Anastigmat said:

Looks like the 45D will be here soon, with the same 12mp sensor.

Click to expand...

I don't think so.

The 30D was 8Mp when the 400D was 10Mp but the 40D with 10Mp didn't
come until the 30D was the usual 18 months old.

A 45D would break the Canon pattern and so far they have stuck with
their schedules pretty tightly.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

Erik Magnuson said:

Where does it work fine and how bad do the pictures look when it
fails? For example, what happens if you AWB a sunset photo? I
suspect that the reason that so many cameras now have poor AWB for
incandescent is that it's a optimization tradeoff. People will accept
warm tungsten photos but perfecting this may make other lighting
conditions potentially unacceptable.

Click to expand...

Meh, 1 out of 1000 shots of mine are sunset shots, and a good portion are in incandescent lighting. I'd prefer they optimize for that! At least photoshop's AWB works well for daylight, tungsten, and fluorescent... that's 99% of my non-flash shooting (and flash wb is trivial).

Leon Wittwer said:

chych said:

Anyhow, why does Photoshop's RAW AWB work fine (mostly), when the
camera's fails? Can't they just figure out the algorithm?

Click to expand...

PS has a great deal more computer power in general and a lot more
time to develop a reliable temperature and tint estimate. Due to the
quite low blue channel in incandescent light, it might take a lot of
work to get a good estimate. If this is true, perhaps the same can
not be done in a camera without unacceptable speed penalties.

Click to expand...

This camera managed to do it:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcl1/page18.asp
But it was maybe lucky.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

So somehow Nikon is right in ergo? Which just happens to be the one you use? Amazing.

One could change the names of brands around in what you said and be just as right. Nothing about a Nikon makes them superior, it all comes down to what some people like.

In the Case of Nikon and Canon ergo, both companies are too afraid to ever change anything to see what works better. And as a result, the users are used to stuff being in the same places every time, so anything different when they grab a different brand just seams wrong to them. Other brands at least try thing to do a better job. Sometimes they nail it (7D, A700 (though do it in different ways), some times they blow it, E3) but they are working the issue.

Minolta is the one that messed cameras up in the first place with the 7000. First to mess things up by removing knobs and otherwise good controls. They were then the first to get them back right. Cameras like the 7D are a dream. Everything is easy to get at, and fast. No menus needed. Why go through a menu when you can turn a knob. I can control the 7D in the dark by feel and what ever I see in the view finder.

The A700 made some improvements over the 7D, but also went backwards. I miss my compensation knob big time, now I have to use a menu and hit buttons. But other brands are no different there.

The 450D is entry level. Same as that class always has been. The hang over old model is the cheap model.

Entry level does not mean the cheapest model. It's the model designed as an entry level. Just like buildings, there is an entry level, but often it's not the lowest floor in the building, the building has basements.

It certainly is impressive, but according to the test chart, it (D300) is clearly ahead of the canon noise wise. Contrast, and color detail favor the canon. Shadow detail, noise and resolution favor the Nikon. AF speed, the D300 blows it away. Of course, considering the price of the canon, its a great buy.

The comment about the Nikon only being sought for its body, is a bit much, even coming from you.

--
Have a great and wonderful Day !! Cheers !!

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sandy b said:

It certainly is impressive, but according to the test chart, it
(D300) is clearly ahead of the canon noise wise. Contrast, and color
detail favor the canon. Shadow detail, noise and resolution favor the
Nikon. AF speed, the D300 blows it away. Of course, considering the
price of the canon, its a great buy.

Click to expand...

Don't pay any attention to those charts. They are based on in-camera JPEGs with default settings. They are therefore meaningless for people who don't shoot in fully automatic mode. I mean, who shoots the D300 in fully automatic modes anyway?

All these cameras have adjustable JPEG settings that alters the contrast, sharpness, color and noise characteristics. For instance, did you know that the default JPEG mode for Nikon dSLRs have significantly more noise reduction than Canon dSLRs at maximum Canon NR settings?

The same charts on DPR claims that the Nikon D200 has less noise than the EOS 5D. I think everyone can agree thse charts are misleading in real-world results. It's more important to look at actual samples, not charts.

chych said:

Erik Magnuson said:

Where does it work fine and how bad do the pictures look when it
fails? For example, what happens if you AWB a sunset photo? I
suspect that the reason that so many cameras now have poor AWB for
incandescent is that it's a optimization tradeoff. People will accept
warm tungsten photos but perfecting this may make other lighting
conditions potentially unacceptable.

Click to expand...

Meh, 1 out of 1000 shots of mine are sunset shots, and a good portion
are in incandescent lighting. I'd prefer they optimize for that! At
least photoshop's AWB works well for daylight, tungsten, and
fluorescent... that's 99% of my non-flash shooting (and flash wb is
trivial).

Click to expand...

It's probably rather more relevant that good AWB on incandescent lighting would increase apparent noise (a good AWB would imply amplifying the blue channel more, and it's going to be the most underexposed in incandescent lighting).

So there you have it: end-user obsession with noise leads to manufacturers implementing poor AWB

David Gay

Anastigmat wrote:
The shutter

Anastigmat said:

button on the Canon and Pentax, even Nikon bodies are better placed
than they are on the Sony.

Click to expand...

Even Nikon bodies???

Seems you've got real issues with Nikon. I hope you didn't hurt yourself saying that an element of a Nikon body might be slightly better than another brand.

Definitely a home run ....the best in the Rebel series by a long way.

By combining the always good Canon CMOS sensors with a bunch of "me too" features they've come up with a reasonable entry level package.

bazz.

lol, I buy Canon A720 which got Highly Recommend from dpreview for my wife and very disappointed, almost throw it's away to my trash.

Hope you didn't hurt yourself when you typed that Mr Pentax.

Anastigmat said:

Looks like the 45D will be here soon, with the same 12mp sensor.

Click to expand...

Don't forget the revised microlenses ;-)

Roberto

Ehrik said:

The 30D was 8Mp when the 400D was 10Mp but the 40D with 10Mp didn't
come until the 30D was the usual 18 months old.

A 45D would break the Canon pattern and so far they have stuck with
their schedules pretty tightly.

Click to expand...

Except in the case of the D60, which only lasted a year before the introduction of the 10D.

The XSi is pretty darn nice. We've them in the shop for a couple weeks and they are a noticeable step up from the XTi. I have a few gripes with them, although they could be user error .

1. The AF in live view is really hard to use.

2. From what I can tell, you have to hold down a button while toggling the focus point selection (with nikon, you just do it with a little joypad on the back).

3. I still think there are cameras in the price range that feel better in my hands.

That said, I can't wait to see what nikon trots out next. The XSi pretty well smacks down the d60 in most ways, but it is about time for a d80 replacement.

poliscijustin said:

1. The AF in live view is really hard to use.

Click to expand...

True for all but the Sony A3xx (and old Oly 330 in mode A.) The Nikon D3 is no better and of course the live view AF in the D60/D80 is really, really hard.

poliscijustin said:

2. From what I can tell, you have to hold down a button while
toggling the focus point selection (with nikon, you just do it with a
little joypad on the back).

Click to expand...

See page 61 of the fine manual. Just press the button, and then use the 4-way controller or the front dial.

--
Erik

Erik Magnuson said:

poliscijustin said:

1. The AF in live view is really hard to use.

Click to expand...

True for all but the Sony A3xx (and old Oly 330 in mode A.) The
Nikon D3 is no better and of course the live view AF in the D60/D80
is really, really hard.

Click to expand...

Yeah, fair enough. The A350 is the only thing I have used where the live view was implemented particularly well. Frankly, this wouldn't be a sticking point for me anyway, as it is not particularly useful to me (although the A350 with the tilt screen has some possibilities.

Member said:

Member said:

2. From what I can tell, you have to hold down a button while
toggling the focus point selection (with nikon, you just do it with a
little joypad on the back).

Click to expand...

See page 61 of the fine manual. Just press the button, and then use
the 4-way controller or the front dial.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I figured there was a way.

Member said:

--
Erik

Click to expand...

--



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