Results vs. appearances

LOL

yeah.. I guess you did nail it

problem is that the OP moved a serious question and instead of facing the truth many like to play the "how it should be" scenario. But that's not how it is. It should but is not.

besides, I said to the OP to rent the gear (like I do too, often): and that was a good sound advice to give.

enough with this hypocrisy that looks do not count (they do, we all know that don't we?)



products need phase backs and 60K worth of gear that needs external monitors instead of a viewfinder ? not really.. see? try to enter that line of business with a sony a350 that is capable of taing pretty much the same pictures

can't stop laughing now: hypocrisy won't solve anything. And the OP was in need of a good advice.

Most people don't know much about higher end gear. Put a bracket or even just an external flash, especially with a diffuser, and they figure "pro" or at least pro gear. Ultimately, however, you sell results. If you show up with cheap gear and don't get the results, you won't get good recommendations, won't get repeat business, etc.

Within reason, it takes the right gear to get the right results. Slow, small aperture, consumer optics won't allow you to get the same results fast, high contrast, high end gear will. Redundant gear allows you to work past equipment failures.

because I would have seen what they could do with it before I hired them.

I am so over the latest greatest gear now, I often use a pinhole camera or a $20 russian camera that I got on ebay for my own work. I get some nice stuff out of them too. I sometimes saw people with better kit than me at weddings, I felt embarrassed, for them, not me.

98% of clients wont know, 1% wont care, 1% are t0ssers.

I think this sort of part time photography work is going to be more common in the future. If you are not making enough money for a full time living, why waste what little you get trying to impress people who dont care. The results will sort the men from the boys, not the toys.

if it makes you feel insecure using a d50 and you need a big bad machine to help assert your worthiness to charge the big bucks, (hey thats ok, posturing IS a part of being a pro) get a d1 for $300 (or even $100, it does not need to work), tape it up, and leave it where they can see it. I am serious.

If you want to stay at the bottom of the barrel with the rest of the bottom feeders fighting for those cheap all day weddings, which once you get branded as, it's really hard to get out, yeah use real low end equipment.

Also how you dress makes a difference..

However no matter what equipment you use, you still have to produce..
Good quality does make a difference, talent being equal.

When I was in college one of my professors asked me to shoot his wedding. He didn't promise me a cent, just thought that I would enjoy taking photos of a real event off-campus (I was a photog for the campus newspaper). I accepted the assignment knowing that there would be free food at the reception and possibly some hot bridesmaids as well (correct on the former, horribly wrong on the latter assumption).

I showed up with my trusty Minolta SRT102, Vivitar Thrystor flash (mounted on a separate bracket - cool!!) and my 50 mm 1.4 lens and 80-200 Soligor zoom. I shot about three rolls. They sucked big time. Maybe got about three or four 'useable' prints (all were B&W, shot on Plus-X Pan).

Well, the prof was not amused. He thought he was going to get album-grade photos, and what I delivered was barely above highschool yearbook snapshot level.

I attribute my horrific performance to Lack of Confidence in my abilities as a photographer. Or, rather, to my inability to disguise my lack of confidence and instead project a sure-footed, devil-may-care James Bond coolness to the assembled wedding party - yeah, I think they could 'smell' my fear. Or, maybe it was simply my total lack of preparation and, yes ( I admit it) my obvious lack of photographic skills. Whatever, I know better now that I'm older and wiser - I got me a Nikon now, so that professor can kiss my a$$!!!

--
My Art, Your Pleasure



http://photopedia.homestead.com

because you are on the other side, how do you know what they (the buyers) think?

you don't hire a photographer, you are a photographer. So don't tell how it should be because you don't (really) know.

I agree with the general cut of your answer, and I agree that's how it should be.

But "looks" are part of our marketing, like it or not. And often we are the ones to make it that way. Let's be honest, come on...

i could not care less. i shoot everything that does not require medium format with leica m8. most people do not even understand what it is. for them it looks like a point and shoot.
--
Irakly Shanidze
http://www.shanidze.com/en

Your prof got what he paid for.

This is off-topic but my ex used to do typing for professors part-time in the days of typewriters. She used to be paid per page. When the transistion to word processors occurred, some of the cheapskates tried to get her to take lesser rates because, well she wasn't typing as much anymore, the machine was.

That'll shut 'em up.

Ya still gotta have backup equipment, though.

--
'No matter where you go, there you are.'

I guess some of you are in a different world than I work in.

I've been in this for over 40 years. In my experience, I can tell you absolutely, positively, that when people are paying the really big bucks, they usually expect pro-looking equipment, lots of lights and reflectors, and at least one assistant, whether any of it is needed or not. They're also really impressed with endless tweaking of the lights and reflectors, lots of make-up touch-ups, anti-glare spray, etc. My advice: never make it look too easy no matter how good you are.

If you're in and out quickly with lightweight equipment, they won't pay big bucks no matter how good the work is. Most don't know the difference between average work that's in focus and properly exposed and really good work.

Early in my career, I had an art director tell me that they hadn't hired me sooner because my prices were too low. I fixed that pretty quickly.

I'm not talking weddings, but, high-end commercial and industrial.
--



David Garth

I have never been asked what I shoot with. Commercial, Editorial, even Creatives, they don't care. It's about the image, not the equipment. For me, buyers don't know the difference, so I let them know. Imagine that? Me telling them.

Aaron

...stop working for these people. Those types of customers must be eliminated, so that they stop tainting and degrading the pro-photo experience. Like Lance Armstrong said..."It's not about the bike."

--
My Art, Your Pleasure



http://photopedia.homestead.com

Last night I had a wine tasting shoot...outdoors little...very little light, and I took a 20D a 580, better bounce card, bracket, and LVP, and a 2.8 zoom... The only question I got asked was about the LVP by one person. I think for all the others the bracket and bounce card and lens hood said it all.

I did miss the AF of the 40D (but the 20D needed exercise) and had to MF alot as a consequence. Overall it worked, but I may have a few more OOF shots than I would have had I used the 40.... couldn't get the AF assist to work on the 580 grrrrrrr, I even knew how to turn it on..but wouldn't come up... serviced by Canon not that long ago... 580 units a bit flaky....

Results look fine so far...about half way through PP.
--
Richard Katris aka Chanan

What's that?

People paying big bucks expect a big production, or really high-end service, or SOMETHING besides "Vip, vam, thank you, ma'am." They expect to somehow be impressed...or at the very least, service at the same level as their other life experiences (the Mercedes dealer, the Rolex dealer, et cetera).

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

...that my gear will not be a stumbling block from whatever is required for the job.

jimcreative said:

Please, do not underestimate the confidence that quality gear can give you.

Click to expand...

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

external low voltage pack for the flash unit.....LVP an external high voltage pack would be HVP.
--
Richard Katris aka Chanan

interesting, I can relate though.

with weddings and portraits the show is how you work with the people and the customer service experience you give at your studio. I can understand how a commercial photog might need to keep a good "show" happening in the actual photography (glamour photogs too I suppose). I have heard of commercial photogs setting up big lighting setups to make it look impressive when the shot only needed something simple. If it looks too easy, they will go get their own camera, or mate with camera, or someone who looks like they are putting in more effort.

I dont do a lot of commercial, but sometimes a client will expect a walk in point the camera push the button walk out and something awesome emailed to them within the hour. Usually the want it cheap and quick ones.

someone commented about the duct tape holding holding my Lumiquest Bouncer to my Sunpak 544. I replied, "If it's good enough to fix an airplane wing, it's good enough to hold my bouncer."

George Law
http://www.images123.com