A question of ethics

I don't doubt it...people win cases or settle them all the time for wrongly using an image. But the key is that it's the VAST minority. Someone wins the lotto every day, but then let's not forget to mention that it's a very small amount of people :)

Anyhoo, time to go see if anyone has responded to my other threads, this one makes me think too much :)
Just to make one thing very clear here. This is an international
website, therefore the US laws do not apply all over the world.
I know that in Europe the publishing of photos can be very
restrictive, and I don't need to be a lawyer to know about these
things.
There are even cases where public figures have successfully sued
photographers who have published photographs of those public figures.

Marco
 
Ok, I read every point and counterpoint to this question and it seems that by this time we have a pretty good idea of the answer. Mind you it was all very informative, interesting and elucidating.

So, ok, could'ya show us at least one of the pics.

Gary
 
The general rule in the United States is that anyone may take
photographs of whatever they want when they are in a public place or
places where they have permission to take photographs.
I am not in the USA and I am not talking about taking pictures, but
about publishing them without permission.

Marco
Rarely is the photographer the actual publisher, and it is the publisher's responsibility to obtain any required releases, not the photographer. Even if the primary subject of the photograph is copyrighted the photographer has the right under copyrights laws to use the photographs for his or her own personal use.

There are many exceptions to copyrights and trademarks, and generally the courts require the plaintiff to prove that they have suffered a loss or been damaged in some capacity.

Just the other day there was a thread on here about the San Diego Zoo, not the first by any stretch of the imagination. It just so happens that in his very good article “Photos of Trademarked and Copyrighted Works” Dan Heller discusses the San Diego Zoo, ( http://www.danheller.com/model-release-copyrights.html#4 )

“Then there's the case of the San Diego Zoo, which is a privately held company, who has copyrighted and trademarked their logos and other artifacts of the property. They also happen to be known for pursuing photographers for copyright violation, as evidenced by searching for relevant search terms on most pro photographer internet forums. The zoo's basis for their legal argument is the same as the Hearst Castle's: the ticket is a contract that says you can't take photos for commercial use. However, the question is really about a contract whose enforceability is questionable. As another layer put it, "while the zoo may prevent you from taking pictures while on their property, once you leave, your photos are yours, and the only thing they can do to prevent you from selling them is under a copyright infringement claim." But, this is a sticky situation as well. Because you can't copyright animals, and most photos the zoo objects to don't really show anything that can be held as an instance of copyright violation, there's not a whole lot the zoo can object to.”

“Of course, like the baseball pitch analogy, there's no ruling till the judges call it. And there's no case to judge until someone actually uses the photo in a specific way for him to make that call.”

“The subtler and more important part to observe here, is that some companies go after the photographer, which is entirely inappropriate, since there has not yet been a use of such photos to use as a basis for an infringement. Simply having them on a website for sale is not yet an infringement. It isn't until someone licenses the photo and uses it in a particular way might it become such.”

Putting the photos on dpreview does not constitute an infringement of copyrights.

--
Brooks
http://bmiddleton.smugmug.com/
 
Putting the photos on dpreview does not constitute an infringement of
copyrights.
This may be fine for the USA, but I am in Europe. That is why I am very cautious of putting up pictures here. When I learned the other day that our Manneken Pis in Brussels is a copyrighted object, this came quite as a shock to me.

Marco
 
Believe me, if you put pictures up of anyone or anything, no one will care. No one? Yes no one...not one single person will care to go after you if you post pictures of even the Manneken Pis on your personal site and share them with us. If you google "Manneken Pis" then go look under 'images', you will see that google comes up with at least 32,000 images relating to it or directly of it. I highly doubt that each one, or even most of those images got permission.

No one cares because its an archaic law and because it's not worth the 400 euro in anyone hiring a lawyer to find out who you are and send you a C&D letter. Did I mention that no one will care? Europe, US, Asia, or the North Pole...people have better things to worry about than someones family slideshow. You should be as cautious about posting pictures on your personal site as you would be going 5km over the posted speed limit on a motorway.
Putting the photos on dpreview does not constitute an infringement of
copyrights.
This may be fine for the USA, but I am in Europe. That is why I am
very cautious of putting up pictures here. When I learned the other
day that our Manneken Pis in Brussels is a copyrighted object, this
came quite as a shock to me.

Marco
 
So, ok, could'ya show us at least one of the pics.

Gary
Gary-

I posted a couple of these pics on other threads when I thought they would be instructional (types of cameras, lenses to use, llighting conditions, etc...)

The question about ethics never came up until I thought about using one for the current CHALLENGE about emotions.

It seemed to me that the pic would be used for my personal gain, which I felt a little uneasy about.

Here's the pic - any objections will cause me to immediately remove the picture, but I would really appreciate some CC of it as I have never posted here for CC.



--
A journey of a thousand miles begins with dad saying 'I know a shortcut!'
 
Thank you :) I happen to work in the legal department of a company
and this is one of the things we deal with. Want some more legal fun
try this on for size (case the we dealt with not too long ago).
Let's say you're a member of a car club for car X. Now you and some
members of this club decide to snap photo's of your cars and make a
calendar for the club. ..........
Hypothetically let me guess - Oh, maybe FORD MUSTANG/ COBRA :-) ! ............

I had to do quite a bit of research on the matter as a Cop in California (Escondido)with a complaint of neighbors fueding and videoing each other and their friends and families; not copyright but privacy issues. Even with restraining orders it was virtually impossible to stop them ....... .......

Tom
 
I do some event photography, when I discuss with the bride and groom (if its a wedding) a contract is signed and a non refundable deposit is paid. My contract will state that I hold the rights to the images, they are purchasing prints. That said I have worked and sold rights to the customer, in which case its a here's your dvd deal have fun with it, and I hate doing this. In any case regardless of if I own the image or not, I dont post these pics (well I have a couple in the past but only from people I knew wouldnt sue the daylights out of me). I live in a small town and it would be my luck that Betty Sue would see Bobbi Jean's pics and that would be that.. This reluctance also stems from the fact most of my paying business is from child portraits and little league stuff and I would hate to imagine the furor if I posted them.

The moral to the story is outline up front in writing what can and cant be done with images, be very specific about payment. If things are orderly and in writing then everyone stays happy.

When it comes to things to sell the customer is your best C&C

-Scott
--

 
Putting the photos on dpreview does not constitute an infringement of
copyrights.
This may be fine for the USA, but I am in Europe. That is why I am
very cautious of putting up pictures here. When I learned the other
day that our Manneken Pis in Brussels is a copyrighted object, this
came quite as a shock to me.

Marco
I have a feeling that pursuing copyright infringements of copyrighted architectures and statues will eventually make them less known and less popular.

--
Alex

http://SFviewfinder.com
 
Only the copyright is yours, and copyright is a right to prevent other people reproducing the pictures, not necessarily a right to do it yourself. Unless the wedding took place in a park or other unequivocally public place you do not have any right to publish the pictures without the consent of the people in them.
 
The question is way beyond ethics, because it concerns the copyright
of the objects or persons depicted in the pictures.
An example: if you take a picture of the Hollywood sign, you may NOT
publish your photo without the permission of the owners of the
Hollywood sign:
http://www.imagecatalog.com/copyright_and_trademark.php#Hollywood
Does "publishing" equal to "royalty-free stock imagery"?

An excerpt from the link:

Hollywood Sign

The Hollywood Sign is trademarked and is not suitable for to be used for royalty-free stock imagery.
 
The question is way beyond ethics, because it concerns the copyright
of the objects or persons depicted in the pictures.
An example: if you take a picture of the Hollywood sign, you may NOT
publish your photo without the permission of the owners of the
Hollywood sign:
http://www.imagecatalog.com/copyright_and_trademark.php#Hollywood
Does "publishing" equal to "royalty-free stock imagery"?

An excerpt from the link:

Hollywood Sign
The Hollywood Sign is trademarked and is not suitable for to be used
for royalty-free stock imagery.
Yes, that is how I would interpret that sentence, especially after reading the following articles:
http://www.hollywoodchamber.net/chamber/faq.asp#q22
http://ask.metafilter.com/88293/Hollywood-Sign-Trademarked

Marco
 
My dilema: I would like to show some of the pictures as a sort of
portfolio or maybe post some of them in forums for (CC) etc...
There's a big difference between printing the photos and having a portfolio to show to a limited number of people and posting them to the web where they could be seen and even copied by many more people. On the web you would lose control.
I'd get permission before posting to the web to avoid possible complications.
--
Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond
 
Just post them and use in your portfolio. you don't need permission.

When being photographed they knew the photos will be seen by people they don't know. They didn't object it at the moment, that gives you the permission.
 
Because the photographers don't need a permission.
showing in the Pro, Lighting, Samples and all DSLR and P&S Forums
since the very beginning. I'll garantee that 99% have not had release
forms signed off by any of their wedding subjects. Then again it
could be a subjective decision and matter of taste and you would have
to decide.

Pierre
--
' Don't let outside negative forces affect the way you choose to feel '
http://matrixone.zenfolio.com/
http://www.pbase.com/matrixone
 
Exactly. So people stop spreading rumors that you have to get permissions to post your wedding photos. Case closed.
So to answer the OP question. You don't have to ask for permission.
You can be a nice guy and say "hey I'd like to post them in a forum
or use them to start a business", but you don't legally have to. It
is implied and understood that a photographer who is invited to an
event can do whatever he likes with the photo's so long as the agreed
services are provided. Unless the photographer signs or agrees to a
privacy statement saying otherwise of course.
 

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