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Yes..It appears the firmware DOES work

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wallyjarratt

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Although I saw improvements in each update...I reserved judgement for the FINAL fix...for which this is supposed to be it.

And while I have seen replies in threads saying they saw an improvement, most of those have come from people that said they really didn't have much of an issue in the first place.

I was one of the first ones to get a camera from BHPhoto, so I did get a DEFECTIVE camera. I have struggled with it, and I have sent the camera in to Canon twice. I have implemented every update available and also about every document I could get my hands on...

So, while I have not actually went out and shot a game...I did do the SAME backyard testing I did with every (hopeful) update...THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT!!

Like others, no more jumping, no more shifting focus...no more chattering, it just feels so much better now.

I now have a MARKED improvement in tracking (beagles) and also in sharpness...including the LCD screen being much better.

Yes, I know most of you will probably be skeptical about my claims...but mostly I was a HOLDOUT on the fix...and while I will rely on a real sporting event to make my final conclusions...I am VERY confident I will be pleased.

Yes...it is better if not FIXED. My guess is that it is now fixed and I will be able to consider my unit defect free.

Wally

--
Wally
************************
http://www.wallyjarratt.com
http://rumboogy.zenfolio.com
http://www.zumoforums.com
 
For me the chattering part makes it worth it. If it chatters on a stationary subject, what makes anyone think it's not doing the same thing on a moving target. I think that's the "root cause" that Canon was refering to.

I still have to try it in the real world with good light.... so I'm holding back on the Woo Hoo's, until I have full sunlight. But the chatter is gone, so I am happy about that.

I can't wait to see how "Ben Is In" did with the upgrade. He was having serious problems. I wish him the best of luck with this firmware.

--
Ron

See some of my stuff at
http://users.qconline.com/~starship/eagleshots/

 
I didn't have time to test the update thoroughly yet, but my standard dumb ONE SHOT (yes, I had problems with ONE SHOT mode!) tests resulted in over 90% of shots in perfect focus, most probably the rest was user error.

The problems I used to had could be described shortly as follows: I was shooting the same (still) subject in ONE SHOT mode, not changing anything, not even moving camera/myself, pointing at the same spot, refocusing & taking the shot several times, and usually each shot was focused differently, very often none was in perfect focus.

I'm going to test my 1D3 further this if it won't rain then. So far, it looks really promising. I'm optimistic about this update..

--
Maciej Freudenheim
http://flickr.com/photos/fahren/
 
Mine looks the same after the firmware upgrade. You say yours looks better??
 
Funny, but my 1D's, 1D-II's, and even EOS-3 all "chattered" in AI-Servo on fixed objects in some conditions. Nothing new at all.
Ron Hodgson said:
For me the chattering part makes it worth it. If it chatters on a
stationary subject, what makes anyone think it's not doing the same
thing on a moving target. I think that's the "root cause" that Canon
was refering to.
Click to expand...
 
DavidPisback said:
Funny, but my 1D's, 1D-II's, and even EOS-3 all "chattered" in
AI-Servo on fixed objects in some conditions. Nothing new at all.
Click to expand...
Yes, you're right..... but, they shouldn't. All of my previous Canons "chattered" except my 10D. That camera was awesome for focus. No chatter, ever. It died a horrible death.....my fault..... they do bounce... but it's not pretty.

Why should it chatter? If it gets a lock, it gets a lock. Hunting should be unacceptable..... "NO HUNTING ALLOWED"...... get the lock and stay there. Looking for a change in distance should not involve the lens hunting.

--
Ron

See some of my stuff at
http://users.qconline.com/~starship/eagleshots/

 
Because it never really "locks" . . . it's continuously looking for any "change".

I think it has to do with low-contrast subjects, really, and also happens when there's something nearby at a slightly different focal plane that the AF sensor can latch onto.

With very contrasty objects and things that were very flat (relative to the DOF), I didn't ever see much chatter.
Ron Hodgson said:
Why should it chatter? If it gets a lock, it gets a lock. Hunting
should be unacceptable..... "NO HUNTING ALLOWED"...... get the lock
and stay there. Looking for a change in distance should not involve
the lens hunting.
Click to expand...
 
DavidPisback said:
Because it never really "locks" . . . it's continuously looking for
any "change".
Click to expand...
But that should not happen in the real world. That should be a MICRO movement, at best. Or the way it should be, just monitoring, without movine the focus.

But here's the point. Since I did the upgrade..... NO HUNTING.... nothing... nada.

--
Ron

See some of my stuff at
http://users.qconline.com/~starship/eagleshots/

 
Which camera and firmware are you referring to?
wallyjarratt said:
Although I saw improvements in each update...I reserved judgement for
the FINAL fix...for which this is supposed to be it.

And while I have seen replies in threads saying they saw an
improvement, most of those have come from people that said they
really didn't have much of an issue in the first place.

I was one of the first ones to get a camera from BHPhoto, so I did
get a DEFECTIVE camera. I have struggled with it, and I have sent the
camera in to Canon twice. I have implemented every update available
and also about every document I could get my hands on...

So, while I have not actually went out and shot a game...I did do the
SAME backyard testing I did with every (hopeful) update...THIS ONE IS
DIFFERENT!!

Like others, no more jumping, no more shifting focus...no more
chattering, it just feels so much better now.

I now have a MARKED improvement in tracking (beagles) and also in
sharpness...including the LCD screen being much better.

Yes, I know most of you will probably be skeptical about my
claims...but mostly I was a HOLDOUT on the fix...and while I will
rely on a real sporting event to make my final conclusions...I am
VERY confident I will be pleased.

Yes...it is better if not FIXED. My guess is that it is now fixed and
I will be able to consider my unit defect free.

Wally

--
Wally
************************
http://www.wallyjarratt.com
http://rumboogy.zenfolio.com
http://www.zumoforums.com
Click to expand...
 
Ron Hodgson said:
But that should not happen in the real world. That should be a MICRO
movement, at best. Or the way it should be, just monitoring, without
movine the focus.
Click to expand...
That is how it works . . . it just "monitors" the phase difference. If it detects a difference, then it will adjust focus.

Apparently, low-contrast stuff can easily trigger slight variations in the phase difference for fixed objects.
Ron Hodgson said:
But here's the point. Since I did the upgrade..... NO HUNTING....
nothing... nada.
Click to expand...
Well, that'll be a first!
 
DavidPisback said:
That is how it works . . . it just "monitors" the phase difference.
If it detects a difference, then it will adjust focus.
Click to expand...
NO.... it should do that in the computer, without touching the focus motor. Once it gets a lock, that lens should not move..... period.

And I'm going to quote you again "If it detects a difference, then it will adjust focus".......... At this point, I had to come back and edit... I lost my temper. Counted to ten, edited out some yelling..... "If it detects a difference, then it will adjust focus"..... If it doesn't detect a difference, then why does it try to adjust focus??????

That would be the chattering.

Mine is rock solid now.... the way it should be. If yours isn't rock solid, get it fixed. Don't tell me mine shouldn't or doesn't work correctly.

--
Ron

See some of my stuff at
http://users.qconline.com/~starship/eagleshots/

 
Ron Hodgson said:
NO.... it should do that in the computer, without touching the focus
motor. Once it gets a lock, that lens should not move..... period.
Click to expand...
That's EXACTLY what it does. It detects the phase difference . . . at any SINGLE focus distance. It doesn't have to change focus to do it.

But, there's no concept of a "lock" in AI-Servo. It is ALWAYS looking for a phase difference . . . if it finds one, it assumes that the subject has moved, and then adjusts focus.

What Canon MAY have done is put in a logic rule that says "if the calculated movement is smaller than x, don't re-focus". This will work quite well for a truly static subject, with a bit of error for very slightly moving subjects.
 
Ron Hodgson said:
Mine is rock solid now.... the way it should be. If yours isn't rock
solid, get it fixed. Don't tell me mine shouldn't or doesn't work
correctly.
Click to expand...
I never said such a thing.

I said that all the PREVIOUS 1-series bodies did the same thing. So, I'm a bit mystified when some people talk about this problem as a Mk-III problem.
 
Ron Hodgson said:
NO.... it should do that in the computer, without touching the focus
motor. Once it gets a lock, that lens should not move..... period.
Click to expand...
From the Mark III White Paper:

"Even if AI Servo AF is used to focus on a still subject, stable control is enabled so that the lens drive isn’t constantly fine-tuning. If the subject starts to move, the focusing responds immediately to detect the subject constantly."
 
DavidPisback said:
What Canon MAY have done is put in a logic rule that says "if the
calculated movement is smaller than x, don't re-focus". This will
work quite well for a truly static subject, with a bit of error for
very slightly moving subjects.
Click to expand...
You're getting close. If you have the camera on the ground (no movement) and are shooting a brick wall (hopefully no movement), there should be no movement.

And I'm going to quote you again "That's EXACTLY what it does. It detects the phase difference . . . at any SINGLE focus distance. It doesn't have to change focus to do it."

If it doesn't have to change focus..... then why does (In my case ...DID) it?

The phase difference can be computed without moving the motor. Once focus is achieved, if nothing changes, the lens should NEVER hunt.

-
Ron

See some of my stuff at
http://users.qconline.com/~starship/eagleshots/

 
DavidPisback said:
I never said such a thing.

I said that all the PREVIOUS 1-series bodies did the same thing.
So, I'm a bit mystified when some people talk about this problem as a
Mk-III problem.
Click to expand...
But just because it happend, does that make it right? And not all 1 series bodys did it. It was just "accepted" .... but that still doesn't make it right.

--
Ron

See some of my stuff at
http://users.qconline.com/~starship/eagleshots/

 
Curator said:
From the Mark III White Paper:
"Even if AI Servo AF is used to focus on a still subject, stable
control is enabled so that the lens drive isn’t constantly
fine-tuning. If the subject starts to move, the focusing responds
immediately to detect the subject constantly."
Click to expand...
You ROCK.... I forgot about that. Thanks.

--
Ron

See some of my stuff at
http://users.qconline.com/~starship/eagleshots/

 
Ron Hodgson said:
You're getting close. If you have the camera on the ground (no
movement) and are shooting a brick wall (hopefully no movement),
there should be no movement.

And I'm going to quote you again "That's EXACTLY what it does. It
detects the phase difference . . . at any SINGLE focus distance. It
doesn't have to change focus to do it."

If it doesn't have to change focus..... then why does (In my case
...DID) it?

The phase difference can be computed without moving the motor. Once
focus is achieved, if nothing changes, the lens should NEVER hunt.
Click to expand...
AF sensors, like our image sensors, aren't free of noise. Noise sets the level of uncertainty in confirming focus, and will tend to cause unwanted AF adjustments. How the system responds to this noise depends upon the control law or "filtering" used, which is all coded into the firmware. Canon have always preferred to keep the system very sensitive to small changes, which results in the "chattering" or "hunting" we observe. It is possible that sample variations will make this more or less noticeable on individual cameras.

With this latest firmware upgrade, I have noticed some reduction in the response to noise, but it is still there, quite definitely.
 
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