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More help with soccer shots, please.

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Ann McRae

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Thank you to Fremiet and others that have educated me so far in taking photos of my kids playing soccer. I am having fairly good luck getting stop action, but still would like to do better. One of my biggest problems, that you guys cannot help with, is deciding where to stand to have the best view of the action.
There is an area that I think you can help me with though. That is DOF.

I am shooting hand held, shutter priority with shutter set to 500. I would like to be able to get the players in focus, but the backgraound (often parents and coaches) out of focus. I have done a quickie job on this photo in PSP 7, but am wondering if there is a technique that can be used to get this from the camera. I am aware that much will depend on how far I am from the action.

I would really appreciate any tips on technique. As I said the editing was very quick, but if you can help with that, that would be great, too. The edges are pretty ragged.

Cropped, resized and USM applied



cropped, background selected and gaussian blur applied, resized and USM applied.



Thanks in advance

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
 
Hi Ann
I have the problem too, deciding where to take a photo from is hard.
I like the photos, but they are kind of dark
I can see from the sky it wasnt to nice out.

The thing i always have trouble with it getting the action from afar and getting facial detials and reactions.
Sorry im not really being helpful here just ploping down my 2 cents
Ann McRae said:
Thank you to Fremiet and others that have educated me so far in
taking photos of my kids playing soccer. I am having fairly good
luck getting stop action, but still would like to do better. One of
my biggest problems, that you guys cannot help with, is deciding
where to stand to have the best view of the action.
There is an area that I think you can help me with though. That is
DOF.
I am shooting hand held, shutter priority with shutter set to 500.
I would like to be able to get the players in focus, but the
backgraound (often parents and coaches) out of focus. I have done a
quickie job on this photo in PSP 7, but am wondering if there is a
technique that can be used to get this from the camera. I am aware
that much will depend on how far I am from the action.

I would really appreciate any tips on technique. As I said the
editing was very quick, but if you can help with that, that would
be great, too. The edges are pretty ragged.

Cropped, resized and USM applied



cropped, background selected and gaussian blur applied, resized and
USM applied.



Thanks in advance

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Click to expand...
--
Sparky_ca
I have a photographic memory, but I always seem to have the lens cap on.
 
Ann: A few quick items from my experience.

When the position of the sun permits I try to position myself higher than the field of play so the background stays simple, ie the field.

As far as dof is concerned, I close the shutter to 1/1000 when I can.

I often fix on a player and a position on the field close to me that I know they will be crossing. I use manual focus for the spot and then wait for the action to hit. Taking shots of a cornerkick is a good example of that kind of opportunity....,I zoom to what I want....I focus on a goal post and wait for the kick.....that's how I took "clash"

Following an individual player using manual focus works for me too.

If the ref will let you getting low behind the goal can yield some great opps too.

Hope this helps.

fremiet
Ann McRae said:
Thank you to Fremiet and others that have educated me so far in
taking photos of my kids playing soccer. I am having fairly good
luck getting stop action, but still would like to do better. One of
my biggest problems, that you guys cannot help with, is deciding
where to stand to have the best view of the action.
There is an area that I think you can help me with though. That is
DOF.
I am shooting hand held, shutter priority with shutter set to 500.
I would like to be able to get the players in focus, but the
backgraound (often parents and coaches) out of focus. I have done a
quickie job on this photo in PSP 7, but am wondering if there is a
technique that can be used to get this from the camera. I am aware
that much will depend on how far I am from the action.

I would really appreciate any tips on technique. As I said the
editing was very quick, but if you can help with that, that would
be great, too. The edges are pretty ragged.

Cropped, resized and USM applied



cropped, background selected and gaussian blur applied, resized and
USM applied.



Thanks in advance

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet
 
Fremiet said:
Ann: A few quick items from my experience.

When the position of the sun permits I try to position myself
higher than the field of play so the background stays simple, ie
the field.
Click to expand...
Yes, I think I'm going to try to stay at the end of the field instead of on the sideline. Too much clutter across the field.
Fremiet59632 said:
As far as dof is concerned, I close the shutter to 1/1000 when I can.

I often fix on a player and a position on the field close to me
that I know they will be crossing. I use manual focus for the
spot and then wait for the action to hit. Taking shots of a
cornerkick is a good example of that kind of opportunity....,I zoom
to what I want....I focus on a goal post and wait for the
kick.....that's how I took "clash"

Following an individual player using manual focus works for me too.
Click to expand...
Do you mean focusing with the ring, or setting the camera on manual, and using the T-W focus button?
Fremiet59632 said:
If the ref will let you getting low behind the goal can yield some
great opps too.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it will. I'll have lots of opportunity to try, as 2 kids have tournaments this weekend, plus they each have 2 games next week! I'll be buying more ms tomorrow.

I experienced "stage fright" or "performance anxiety" tonight. My youngest was playing keeper. I had the action in focus, panning on the ball (easy in a U8 game), great shot and great, great save....watched through the viewfinder. Could not press the shutter! I am so disappointed.

Ann

PS are you back from your tournament in Sweden(?) ? Got some pics?

Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
 
Hi Ann,

somwhere I read the photographer should be where the action is. Looks like you are attending soccer (or footbal as we call it in Europe) for quite a long time, so you know, where the most action is. It also depends on the team tactics. Some teamy play mostly defensive, other are quite offensive.

I understand that most of the time you want to take pics of your kids. If they play in the defense, just stay behind the goal on whatever side is assigned to your son. If he is atacker go to the other goal area. If he is a midfield player..., well hard to tell.

Do you think you can waste one game not taking photos and rather observing it and thinking over your position? Once you find your spot you can spent there the whole game and even can use tripod.

I follow soccer for a long time and I have seen many pictures. Most I like when the DOF is just big enough to show the action (free kicj, ball fighting, nice tackle) ant the rest is blured. I know this one is hard to achieve by DA, since the object might be then out of focus. But keep trying.

I hope those suggestions help a bit. However they are just theoretical since I never tried taking soccer picture. But I will soon.
Ann McRae said:
Thank you to Fremiet and others that have educated me so far in
taking photos of my kids playing soccer. I am having fairly good
luck getting stop action, but still would like to do better. One of
my biggest problems, that you guys cannot help with, is deciding
where to stand to have the best view of the action.
There is an area that I think you can help me with though. That is
DOF.
I am shooting hand held, shutter priority with shutter set to 500.
I would like to be able to get the players in focus, but the
backgraound (often parents and coaches) out of focus. I have done a
quickie job on this photo in PSP 7, but am wondering if there is a
technique that can be used to get this from the camera. I am aware
that much will depend on how far I am from the action.

I would really appreciate any tips on technique. As I said the
editing was very quick, but if you can help with that, that would
be great, too. The edges are pretty ragged.

Cropped, resized and USM applied



cropped, background selected and gaussian blur applied, resized and
USM applied.



Thanks in advance

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Click to expand...
--
bezucho
 
bezucho said:
Hi Ann,

somwhere I read the photographer should be where the action is.
Looks like you are attending soccer (or footbal as we call it in
Europe) for quite a long time, so you know, where the most action
is. It also depends on the team tactics. Some teamy play mostly
defensive, other are quite offensive.
I understand that most of the time you want to take pics of your
kids. If they play in the defense, just stay behind the goal on
whatever side is assigned to your son. If he is atacker go to the
other goal area. If he is a midfield player..., well hard to tell.
Do you think you can waste one game not taking photos and rather
observing it and thinking over your position? Once you find your
spot you can spent there the whole game and even can use tripod.

I follow soccer for a long time and I have seen many pictures. Most
I like when the DOF is just big enough to show the action (free
kicj, ball fighting, nice tackle) ant the rest is blured. I know
this one is hard to achieve by DA, since the object might be then
out of focus. But keep trying.

I hope those suggestions help a bit. However they are just
theoretical since I never tried taking soccer picture. But I will
soon.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the feedback. I think my problem is that I often guess wrong about the action! :-) But I have had quite a lot of success standing at the end of the field, past the keeper.

My oldest plays keeper half time, and center mid (fullback?) half time. My daughter primarily plays defense, and my little guy still plays every position. Its easier to take pics of the younger ones, probably because the field is smaller. As well, I do not only focus on my kids, because I am kind of the unofficial team photographer, and share photos so I try to get everyone.

I had a lot of success this past winter always focusing on the net or goalies during hockey games, and was able to capture lots of goals being scored. Soccer tends to be a lower scoring game, so I try to find some interesting action. I know I am getting better with practice, and will keep at it.
I will be sure to let everyone here know when I get that perfect shot!

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
 
I also spend a good portion of my time following my kids around shooting soccer and softball. Don't feel to bad about missing the shot I have done the same thing countless times. Come to think of it go ahead and feel bad I always do. :) Here is one of my shots with a link to an album of soccer photos. All photos taken with the Olympus E-10 and TCON14B



http://www.fototime.com/inv/22D20D6275D0377

John
Ann McRae said:
I experienced "stage fright" or "performance anxiety" tonight. My
youngest was playing keeper. I had the action in focus, panning on
the ball (easy in a U8 game), great shot and great, great
save....watched through the viewfinder. Could not press the
shutter! I am so disappointed.

Ann
Click to expand...
 
Great shot John.

I had a brief peak at your gallery, too. Very nice. Excuse my ignorance, but where on the food chain does the E - 10 fit, and is the TCON14B a telephoto lens? I really am a beginner at all this. Do you use a tripod?

Thanks so much for the encouragement. I am really kicking myself for missing the shot! But there is always next game.

Ann
John Burns said:
I also spend a good portion of my time following my kids around
shooting soccer and softball. Don't feel to bad about missing the
shot I have done the same thing countless times. Come to think of
it go ahead and feel bad I always do. :) Here is one of my shots
with a link to an album of soccer photos. All photos taken with
the Olympus E-10 and TCON14B
Click to expand...
Member said:
John
Ann McRae said:
I experienced "stage fright" or "performance anxiety" tonight. My
youngest was playing keeper. I had the action in focus, panning on
the ball (easy in a U8 game), great shot and great, great
save....watched through the viewfinder. Could not press the
shutter! I am so disappointed.

Ann
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
 
Hey Ann,

My wife and I have been shooting soccer games for over a year now. Isn't it fun!?

You are already doing most of what you can to acheive a narrow DOF.

1. Using shutter priority for a quick shutter speed (why are you using 1/500 and not 1/1000? Just curious)

2. Getting back from the action and using more zoom.

But are you using a neutral density filter? Even at 1/1000 shutter the aperture still doesn't open up in birght sunlight. You be able to get even more DOF if you throw an ND filter or two in front of your lens.
Ann McRae said:
Thank you to Fremiet and others that have educated me so far in
taking photos of my kids playing soccer. I am having fairly good
luck getting stop action, but still would like to do better. One of
my biggest problems, that you guys cannot help with, is deciding
where to stand to have the best view of the action.
There is an area that I think you can help me with though. That is
DOF.
I am shooting hand held, shutter priority with shutter set to 500.
I would like to be able to get the players in focus, but the
backgraound (often parents and coaches) out of focus. I have done a
quickie job on this photo in PSP 7, but am wondering if there is a
technique that can be used to get this from the camera. I am aware
that much will depend on how far I am from the action.

I would really appreciate any tips on technique. As I said the
editing was very quick, but if you can help with that, that would
be great, too. The edges are pretty ragged.

Cropped, resized and USM applied



cropped, background selected and gaussian blur applied, resized and
USM applied.



Thanks in advance

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Click to expand...
 
TurboTed said:
Hey Ann,

My wife and I have been shooting soccer games for over a year now.
Isn't it fun!?

You are already doing most of what you can to acheive a narrow DOF.

1. Using shutter priority for a quick shutter speed (why are you
using 1/500 and not 1/1000? Just curious)
Click to expand...
Its just what I tried first. Will I have success at 1/1000 handheld?
TurboTed said:
2. Getting back from the action and using more zoom.

But are you using a neutral density filter? Even at 1/1000 shutter
the aperture still doesn't open up in birght sunlight. You be able
to get even more DOF if you throw an ND filter or two in front of
your lens.
Click to expand...
This is completely new info for me. I do not own a single accessory, but am going to get another ms tonight, so think I will get a filter. Brand recommendations? I'm also going to get a lens hood.

Thanks so much.

Ann

--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
 
Ann McRae said:
TurboTed said:
Hey Ann,

My wife and I have been shooting soccer games for over a year now.
Isn't it fun!?

You are already doing most of what you can to acheive a narrow DOF.

1. Using shutter priority for a quick shutter speed (why are you
using 1/500 and not 1/1000? Just curious)
Click to expand...
Its just what I tried first. Will I have success at 1/1000 handheld?
Click to expand...
Setting the shutter to 1/1000 is even better for handheld than 1/500. It is quicker which will reduce any camera shake more, stop the action and open up the aperture even more. Beware that as the aperture opens up and you get a narrower DOF, the auto focus may take longer to lock on target.
Ann McRae said:
Ann McRae said:
2. Getting back from the action and using more zoom.

But are you using a neutral density filter? Even at 1/1000 shutter
the aperture still doesn't open up in birght sunlight. You be able
to get even more DOF if you throw an ND filter or two in front of
your lens.
Click to expand...
This is completely new info for me. I do not own a single
accessory, but am going to get another ms tonight, so think I will
get a filter. Brand recommendations? I'm also going to get a lens
hood.
Click to expand...
Actually, I don't have a neutral density filter yet, but I have it on my list. I did get the Sony lens hood. It works fine, I don't know if there are any better suited for the 707 but there are probably less expensive ones.
Ann McRae said:
Thanks so much.

Ann

--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Click to expand...
 
Hi Ann,

I try to get closer to the subject, either by cropping or being ain the right place at the right time (easier said than done). Sometimes standing by the goalie is good too. You get the soccer field as the background instead of houses, etc.

I tried to fix the photo as perhaps I would see it. I felt that it needed more of a focal point for my eye to stop wandering around, so I added a ball. I also cropped the picture to bring it more in on the action.

I could right click and copy, but for some reason, I could not paste it, so here it is:

http://www.pbase.com/image/2288035

DeeDee G.
Ann McRae said:
Thank you to Fremiet and others that have educated me so far in
taking photos of my kids playing soccer. I am having fairly good
luck getting stop action, but still would like to do better. One of
my biggest problems, that you guys cannot help with, is deciding
where to stand to have the best view of the action.
There is an area that I think you can help me with though. That is
DOF.
I am shooting hand held, shutter priority with shutter set to 500.
I would like to be able to get the players in focus, but the
backgraound (often parents and coaches) out of focus. I have done a
quickie job on this photo in PSP 7, but am wondering if there is a
technique that can be used to get this from the camera. I am aware
that much will depend on how far I am from the action.

I would really appreciate any tips on technique. As I said the
editing was very quick, but if you can help with that, that would
be great, too. The edges are pretty ragged.

Cropped, resized and USM applied



cropped, background selected and gaussian blur applied, resized and
USM applied.



Thanks in advance

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Click to expand...
--
DeeDee G.
http://www.pbase.com/deedee_g/root
 
DeeDee G. said:
I try to get closer to the subject, either by cropping or being ain
the right place at the right time (easier said than done).
Sometimes standing by the goalie is good too. You get the soccer
field as the background instead of houses, etc.

I tried to fix the photo as perhaps I would see it. I felt that it
needed more of a focal point for my eye to stop wandering around,
so I added a ball. I also cropped the picture to bring it more in
on the action.

I could right click and copy, but for some reason, I could not
paste it, so here it is:

http://www.pbase.com/image/2288035

DeeDee G.
Click to expand...
Thanks DeeDee

I agree with cropping closer, but there is already a ball there. The two players that have clashed into each other have headed the ball.....look up, way up. This is my DOF problem.
DeeDee G. said:
DeeDee G. said:
cropped, background selected and gaussian blur applied, resized and
USM applied.

Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Because the background stuff is there, you cannot notice the ball. I know that if I had been at the same end of the feild as this action I would have had a better shot, I was just hoping there was something I could do to get that shot even when I am in the wrong place. I'm sure I'm asking for way too much!
Thanks for the tips.

Ann

--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
 
Hi Ann,

Thanks for your comment. The E-10 started out as a $1999 4MP SLR with a fixed lens. With the release of the E-20 the E-10 can be bought for well under $1000. It is a great camera especially if you have previously used a 35mm SLR. I can't remember the last time I had to go into the menus as most settings are changeable with on camera buttons and dials. The 14B is a 1.4 telephoto add on lens. Big chuck of glass but with no f stop penalty. Soccer moves around to fast for a tripod to be useful so all my shots are hand held. Biggest advantage my E-10 has over my other cameras is the very short shutter lag on a prefocused shot. You actually get what you thought you shot instead of what happened a half second later.

I've been shooting digital for several years but I certainly don't consider myself an expert. In sport shooting the main difference between a beginner and an expert, IMO, is that the expert has taken 1000's more bad shots than the beginner. Just keep snapping away and your percentage of keepers will gradually rise.

BTW for anyone wondering why an Oly user is hanging around this forum I started with a Sony FD-91(gave it to my dad). Next was the Sony D-770(Sold that to my son. Had to charge him because he is a laywer and would have lost respect for me if I didn't :) ). I still have a Sony CD-1000 and the original F series 505. I used to post quite a bit in here. Your soccer header attracted my attention and here we are.
Ann McRae said:
Great shot John.
I had a brief peak at your gallery, too. Very nice. Excuse my
ignorance, but where on the food chain does the E - 10 fit, and is
the TCON14B a telephoto lens? I really am a beginner at all this.
Do you use a tripod?

Thanks so much for the encouragement. I am really kicking myself
for missing the shot! But there is always next game.

Ann
Click to expand...
--
John
 
Oh Geez Ann! I see it now! LOL I'm sorry.

I cannot believe I missed it! It was before that first cup of coffee!

DeeDee G.
Ann McRae said:
DeeDee G. said:
I try to get closer to the subject, either by cropping or being ain
the right place at the right time (easier said than done).
Sometimes standing by the goalie is good too. You get the soccer
field as the background instead of houses, etc.

I tried to fix the photo as perhaps I would see it. I felt that it
needed more of a focal point for my eye to stop wandering around,
so I added a ball. I also cropped the picture to bring it more in
on the action.

I could right click and copy, but for some reason, I could not
paste it, so here it is:

http://www.pbase.com/image/2288035

DeeDee G.
Click to expand...
Thanks DeeDee
I agree with cropping closer, but there is already a ball there.
The two players that have clashed into each other have headed the
ball.....look up, way up. This is my DOF problem.
Ann McRae said:
Ann McRae said:
cropped, background selected and gaussian blur applied, resized and
USM applied.

Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Because the background stuff is there, you cannot notice the ball.
I know that if I had been at the same end of the feild as this
action I would have had a better shot, I was just hoping there was
something I could do to get that shot even when I am in the wrong
place. I'm sure I'm asking for way too much!
Thanks for the tips.

Ann

--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Click to expand...
--
DeeDee G.
http://www.pbase.com/deedee_g/root
 
Ann: Once or twice I have moved the ball to get a better crop....closer to the head for a header. ....whatever. I know some would never do that but my rule of thumb is to place the ball somewhere along its trajectory. Typically, though, using a 3 burst I get just what I want.

BTW the Sweden trip begins on 7/11. I will be posting those shots on my site.

Fremiet
 
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