What am i doing wrong?

friesr

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Was out clicking away the other day and was feeling i was getting a better handle on the 40d. Here are a couple of pic's.

The peacock I thought turned out good. The chipmunk I felt the DOF was way too shallow. It appears as if it focused on its hind quarter and its head was out of focus.

Also, on the chipmunk, it seems to be a bit noisy.



 
Hi
I am not sure what you were expecting . I can not see big problems

If you use f5,6 and 300mm focal length - and the chipmunk was perhaps 2,5 - 3 meters away - the depth of field (sharpest area ) is just some centimeters - and the chipmunk is thicker than that . The only way to get deeper sharp area is to use f 11 or f16.

The small amount of noise in the darker off focus/soft background is quite normal with high ISO - you can remove it all in DPP if it disturbs you.

Did this help ? or was this just basics ?
--
Kari
SLR photography for 40 years
60°15´N 24°03´ E
 
I was using ISO 400

As far as what i am disapointed in is the sharpness. Even on the peacock, it seems as if the eyes are not sharp.
 
As far as what i am disapointed in is the sharpness. Even on the
peacock, it seems as if the eyes are not sharp.
Your shutter speed was 1/100 sec. Your focal length 300mm.
One small movement (camera shake) may cause a bit of unsharpness.
The same goes for your subject.
As far as I know SS = 1,6 x focal lenght. Unless you use a sturdy tripod.
And then, there is the aperture. But that has already been explained by Kari.

As for the eye, did you focus on it or on another part of the peacock?
You can select & sharpen it afterwards.
A photographer's job does not end in the camera...

Kind regards,

Ananda
 
I was in the same boat when I took my 40D to the park the first time. For one it was user error on my side, lens way too open, things like that. But I also came to realize that when shooting raw, there's very little sharpening applied. Once I do some PP in Lightroom pictures that just look a bit soft can be sharpened just fine and look great. I'm considering cranking up the sharpening in the camera, but have not done so yet. Any picture I consider for printing larger than a post card needs post processing anyways, including sharpening. Very true, taking the picture is just the first step. Even with my P&S, if I wanted to print I at least ran the auto levels on them in PS which always made quite a difference.

Using a DSLR will be more work than using a P&S, most of which throw quite some sharpening at saturation at the files in camera.

For further pictures like the ones you posted I'd suggest at least f8, Av, ISO 400 or maybe up to 800 and a tripod. Wildlife is not easy to photograph. Make a trip to a local zoo or similar animal park, or a farm/ranch somewhere and shoot away.

Have fun!
 
On the chipmunk, I took the photo a fast as i could, the little bugger would not sit still very long. You would think he did not want his picture taken...lol

On the peacock, i did focus on its head.

Guess what i am tyring learn is what what settings to use for verious subjects/lighting situations.

Both photos were taken in the early afternoon. The peacock was in direct sunlight and the chipmunk was in the shade. I had attempted to use a flash for fill and drag the sutter to pickup the background but those did not turn out like i thought they should.

What would you consider the slowest sutter speed for a handheld shot on a subject like these?
 
As said - and as far as I have learnt from these forums (I am not a pro) -, to prevent camera shake, shutterspeed = 1,6 x focal length. If your focal length is 300 mm, your shutterspeed is supposed to be around 1/500.

And that may make it more than once necessary to raise your ISO. Or lower your aperture - which then implies less DOF, and hence less sharpness. Each situation is different. As you readily know, camera's don't make pictures, people do. It is up to the photographer to assess each and every situation...

And yes, I know there is such thing as IS, which can make it possible to take the shot at a slower shutter speed. As long as you hold the camera as steady as a sturdy tripod does, then this should not be a problem. But even so, I for one do my utmost to apply the rule. I like shooting flowers, but a bit of wind can ruin things. Flowers can be 'moving targets'. Unless, perhaps, your ss is fast enough. And I think the same applies for animals like squirrels, chipmonks and what not...

At 300mm, you have a very shallow DOF (the slightest movement can ruin one's shot.) You must have a high enough aperture to get every part of your subject sharp enough. F8 or higher. If there is not enough light around, you can forget your high shutterspeed - or you can try raising your ISO (and the noise).

In order to get what you need, you have to play with aperture, shutterspeed and ISO. Quite often not that esay, since the situation may not always give us enough time to do so. In such a case, you have to be pleased with what you get - or delete it.

And as said before, you can always select & sharpen things afterwards. A photographer's job does not end in the camera... If you and I want it to have that way, we'd be better off with an everyday P&S.

All the best,

Ananda
 
The others have given you good advice.

Here is my take:

1. If these are handheld you need at least 1/500 of a second, especially with wildlife that can make quick movements.

2. You need to stop down by 1 or 2 stops, not just to get better DOF but to get to the sweetspot of the lens for better overall optical performance.

3. the chipmunk pic is overexposed by a stop, the peacock is overexposed by a half stop. The pictures also have poor contrast and this contributes significantly to the unsatisfying look of the shots.

4. If you are using the Canon 75-300mm III lens, it is not a great performer, so don't expect a great deal from the really cheap lenses. If this is the non-APO Sigma 75-300mm, this is not a great performer either.

5. Clever post processing can mask some of the problems, but I would try to do future shots at the right EV (aperture and shutter speed) and then see what good PP can do for you.

5a. Try applying this curve to each pic, the chipmunk pic will probably benefit more than the peacock:



6. To get these shots right (F8 at 1/500 second) you probably need to use at least iso 1600. I think you now can see why people spend huge amounts to get fast (F4 or F2.8) long lenses so that hey can get the right combination of aperture and shutter speed while using a reasonable iso.

7. Shooting using RAW format can give you more flexibility with exposure.

Post some additional pics as you work on your long lens technique.

Cheers.

--
Best regards,
Jim

Gallery at:
http://www.pbase.com/borderrose/viewgallery
 
These pics have all the hallmarks of having the camera set to full auto and if this is what you do, then this is the best you will ever get when you let the camera make photographic decisions for you.

in summary...

a) you are not selecting the focal point....the peacocks neck and the chipmunk's butt are in focus.

b) your shutter speed is way low.. as a guide 1/250th even with IS should be min. for 300mm

c) you are not compensating for the background in exposure, particularly the chipmunk shot.

regards,

--
~ Being over-exposed can get you arrested ~

http://ramsden.smugmug.com/
 
c) you are not compensating for the background in exposure,
particularly the chipmunk shot.
From your comment c) Really not sure how to do this.

I am using the Canon 70-300 IS lens. Since I bought it, i have really regreted not putting the money toward the 70-200 2.8. Not exactly sure how a 2.8 lens would have helped in this case. If i had used a 2.8, the DOF would have been even less. Correct?

I usually shoot in AV mode. This was in TV, i had been trying to drag the shutter and use a fill flash.

I was shooting in RAW

Here is anoter shot from the same day. ISO 100 f/4 1/250 70mm and Flash. It lacks the chrispness I was expecting from the narow DOF and or poor focus.

 
I am using the Canon 70-300 IS lens. Since I bought it, i have really
regreted not putting the money toward the 70-200 2.8. Not exactly
sure how a 2.8 lens would have helped in this case. If i had used a
2.8, the DOF would have been even less. Correct?
Exactly ! And IS helped you to keep the picture steady ( i do not see much motion blur - even if somebody mentioned that problem !)

70-200f4IS is not so heavy , price is lower than f2,8 versions price tag -- and you do not have to struggle with DOF .

If you think your 70-300IS is the problem , you should check what PhotoZone.de says about it ( look also what they say about 70-200f4IS and f 2.8 ). They say 70-300IS has best available quality/price ratio !
I usually shoot in AV mode. This was in TV, i had been trying to drag
the shutter and use a fill flash.

I was shooting in RAW

Here is anoter shot from the same day. ISO 100 f/4 1/250 70mm and
Flash. It lacks the chrispness I was expecting from the narow DOF and
or poor focus.
Using a tele is always balancing with motion blur , noise (high ISO) , fast enough shutter speed , DOF , softness if not stopped down enough.... and exponentially increasing price tag when you want higher quality and smaller f value.

--
Kari
SLR photography for 40 years
60°15´N 24°03´ E
 
In the case of the chipmunk it is obvious that you were focussed on his rear end, not his eye. The hair at the rear is plenty sharp, so it appears that the IS is working well on that lens.

Someone above assumed that you were using the center focus point. If you don't have the camera set so that that is the only active one, you should. A second trick that I use to assure the focus is where I want it to be is to use the * button to focus, not the shutter button. I have a 20D, but probably the instructions are the same for the 40D
1. Menu, Custom Functions (C Fn)
2 Fn 04 (Shutter/AE Lock)
3 Set to 1 (AE Lock/AF)

This requires that you remember to push the * button to focus your camera. The payoff is that once you focus at a particular spot, you don't need to continue to hold the shutter button to hold the focus. Granted animals move fast, but with practice you can do this about as fast as the default operation. This lets you focus the picture and then move the camera to compose and take multiple shots without the focus changing.
Best of luck with your new camera.
--
Galleries at http://photos.strassoc.com

 
hi again...
c) you are not compensating for the background in exposure,
particularly the chipmunk shot.
From your comment c) Really not sure how to do this.
See page 93 of the manual: Exposure compensation is commonly used when there is a very bright or very dark background to your subject, so in the case of the chipmunk shot, where there is a bright background in the rocks, shooting with -2/3 or even -1 EC set would have given a better overal exposure to the picture.

The need for EC is subjective...you need to appraise the scene and adjust accordingly, but it is a simple habit to learn.. perhaps starting with centre-weighted metering would also help, rather than the evaluative metering of the camera.
I am using the Canon 70-300 IS lens. Since I bought it, i have really
regreted not putting the money toward the 70-200 2.8. Not exactly
sure how a 2.8 lens would have helped in this case. If i had used a
2.8, the DOF would have been even less. Correct?
Your problem is not so much DOF as in focussing on the wrong spot... for example, with eyes in focus, some soft focus on the chipmunk butt would probably be acceptable...

The 70-300IS is a GREAT lens for the price... it can be commendably sharp, though f8 is better than wide open, and of course at tele lengths the focal point is critical due to the shallow dof. When i first got this lens i though i had sharpness issues but it was all focus issues...i typicall set to use the centre af point only then use "focus and recompose" as necessary.

btw.. the 70-200f2.8 is HUGE, HEAVY and EXPENSIVE, so take heart there is nothing wrong with your selection of equipment...simply practice and some familiarity..

good luck, ian
I usually shoot in AV mode. This was in TV, i had been trying to drag
the shutter and use a fill flash.

I was shooting in RAW

Here is anoter shot from the same day. ISO 100 f/4 1/250 70mm and
Flash. It lacks the chrispness I was expecting from the narow DOF and
or poor focus.

--
~ Being over-exposed can get you arrested ~

http://ramsden.smugmug.com/
 
On the chipmunk, I took the photo a fast as i could, the little
bugger would not sit still very long. You would think he did not want
his picture taken...lol
For moving subjects like this, you'll probably find that continuous focusing will help. Also, set the focusing point to the one over the little bugger's eye, that way you don't have to recompose before snapping. And, use continuous shooting mode (either slow or fast) to up your chances of getting a keeper. Fire off a burst of 3 or 5.

When learning, it's often helpful to shoot RAW+lg/fn JPEG so you can compare the two. This way you know exactly what the camera settings are adding to a shot. You should be shooting to get the RAW as close as possible without much adjustment. It can often help to go back to basics in full manual mode, or my favorite is Av mode with liberal use of EC based on the overall tone of the image.

Finally, stopping down will ensure you get less blur due to focusing errors, as you get more DoF. However, it can increase motion blur because it lengthens the shutter speed. Which means you have to pump ISO up, which adds noise. (Noise, by the way, is not necessarily a bad thing. For some shots, it can add emotional impact, and it will make photos appear sharper. In those cases where I've had a really great shot that was slightly OOF--or maybe blurry due to an extreme crop--if it suits the subject I find adding tons of noise in PS can bring back perceived sharpness to an extent.)
On the peacock, i did focus on its head.

Guess what i am tyring learn is what what settings to use for verious
subjects/lighting situations.
Welcome to the life-long study of photography, my friend. :-)
Both photos were taken in the early afternoon. The peacock was in
direct sunlight and the chipmunk was in the shade. I had attempted to
use a flash for fill and drag the sutter to pickup the background but
those did not turn out like i thought they should.
Flash adds another level of complexity. Planet Neil has some of the best info on flash photography I've ever read: http://planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/ . And then there's the canonical EOS flash manual: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ .

The main thing to understand about flash, particularly when combining with slower shutter speeds, is that: (1) a flash burst is very, very brief and bright--the entire contribution from a flash can be made to an image in 1/10,000 or shorter, and (2) light from flash falls off as the distance increases.

The implication of (1) is that you must actively balance ambient light with flash intelligently to get predictable results. Flash will only freeze motion in total darkness--any ambient light will be recorded over the length of the exposure and result in motion blur (or the subject or due to camera shake). The implication of (2) is that you must not only balance flash and ambient, but you have to do so as a function of distance. So, one situation (of many) where dragging the shutter is effective is when the foreground subject is in total darkness and the background is far away and lit. You expose for the background, and let the flash add the right contribution to the foreground, and you end up with good results. Any other situation requires your creative intervention to infer the right settings for the result you're after. :-)

After all that effort learning how to use flash properly, you'll promptly be told your pictures suck because direct flash obliterates shadows which our brains use to infer dimensionality. So now you have to add to the mix bouncing and diffusing, and if you're bouncing you pick up color casts from whatever you're bouncing off of. Fun stuff!
What would you consider the slowest sutter speed for a handheld shot
on a subject like these?
Typically, still subjects require 1/effective focal length. This is a rule of thumb and should be regarded as approximate. Also, since our 40Ds have a crop sensor, our effective focal length is 1.6x what it says on the lens. IS can give you a couple of stops leeway. You can also use continuous drive here--for long handheld exposures, it's much more difficult to hold the camera steady for the first frame than subsequent frames, so put it on high- or low-speed drive and the subsequent frames will invariably be better than the first one.

This only accounts for blur due to camera shake, though. It doesn't account for freezing a moving subject--shutter speeds have to be based on the type of motion (across the frame requires faster speeds than toward or away) and distance (far-off subjects have to be moving faster to show blur than close subjects, which cover a greater percentage of the frame because they're closer to you).

Again, flash complicates things. You know those famous images of a bullet piercing an apple and shredding a playing card, taking by Harold Edgarton in his MIT lab? Those were all taken with the shutter left open. The trick: it was in total darkness. The shutter speed isn't what froze the motion, it was the extremely bright and extremely short burst of light he timed with the event that froze the motion. Slow-sync photography does the same thing for you--so you can get everything from Edgarton-style flash freeze effects to blur trails with a sharp main subject depending on how you use it.
 
F2.8 would not help. It looks like shallow DoF and probably some subject motion blur as the head moves. Your focus point also is not on the head. BTW the F2.8 zooms are pretty heavy and harder to hold steady. I think the others also pointd out the need to use high shutter speed.
--

What camera do I have? I rather you look at my photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinz
 
If I understand correctly, at 300mm I need to have at lest f/8 for DOF, 1/500 shutter and then adjust ISO for exposure.

I also could use AI Focus and use one of the other focus points other than the center? It may also be help full to burst 3 to 5 shots to increase the likleyhood of getting a keeper.

Also, i could try spot metering to expose the subject correctly opposed.

Is this on the right path?
 

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