Thinking of buying a G9 - comments please

I would be most grateful for comments from G9 owners on a couple of issues. I have tried to read as many previous posts here as I could, and read as many G9 reviews as possible, but I'd love some user/owner feedback from you guys on this forum.

I am thinking of adding the G9 to my aresenal of cameras - I alreaady have bridge, very small compact, and DSLR cameras. My use for the G9 camera would be on short vacations primarily, where I don't want to have to carry around a full DSLR kit, and maybe also for some street photography as well. I like good build quality and full manual controls, hence my attraction towards the G9. I don't have the money to fund a Leica M8 by the way.

Some things worry me and I would like your views on them:-

1. Fine detail and noise reduction 'smudging' - I have looked at some of the sample images available - I prefer 'real world' ones rather than sterile studio tests. With images of things like landscapes with lots of fine detail in them, such as distant foliage, I think I can see a lot of fine low contrast detail often gets blurred in G9 shots, presumably due to noise reduction, and even at relatively low ISOs. In relation to this: has anyone else noted this? From what ISO upwards? Is the problem only on JPEGS or do you find it also in Raw?

2. size and weight - is this cam really that much lighter and smaller than a small DSLR? Some reviewers say it is a bit bulky and heavy. None of my local stores carry the G9 so I can't get my hands on one to try it out.

3. High ISO - I expect 1600+ to be bad with that many MP on that size sensor. Do G9 raw images at high ISO respond well to post-processing NR such as via Neat Image or Noise Ninja, or does the camera obliterate fine detail that means that even with Neat Image, you can't recover that lost detail?

Thanks for your time, and sorry to ask questions that have been probably asked a lot before.

--
'...and the meek shall inherit the earth...' (Peart)

I can only answer to no. 2. It is bulky. Fits okay in a jacket pocket, but if the weather is warm, you should get a case to wear on your belt. I got a Lowepro Z10. Right size and has a belt loop sewn on both ends so it won't slip off your belt.

There are several examples of high iso photos on this site. Just scroll down to find them. Much better results than advertised.

Is it worthwhile to get one. Yes. I love to shoot in RAW and the results thus far are very good. (Just had it for a few days.)

I also have an 870, which I like for its 28mm lens equivalent and its size. But the g9 has many more controls.

Hi Marco,

I have been using a G9 for a few months as my "take everywhere" camera. I have been very happy with the G9. The trick with the camera in my opinion is to keep the ISO low, and shoot Raw. If you process the Raw images in ACR or lightroom (or other tool) you will have much more control over the noise processing, and contrast and sharpness.

The camera is very compact compared to an SLR. With the lens retracted, I have no problem keeping it in a coat pocket. You will probably want a belt case for days when you don't wear a coat.

The lens is very sharp edge to edge on my G9, I have not seen too much CA, and the IS works really well.

I think the biggest shortcomings of the camera are the lack of a true wide angle, the noise at high ISO, and narrow dynamic range. I have a constant -2/3ev dialed into the camera, but you do need to watch the histogram.

And now... a G9 Cherry Blossom tree...

Marco Cinnirella said:

--
'...and the meek shall inherit the earth...' (Peart)

Click to expand...

--
http://www.dustandrust.com

I would imagine it being a very good compliment to a DSLR - for what it is, there's not much competition.

Its compact, but not really compact enough to fit in to a shirt pocket and there are some issues concerning the robustness of the lens protector mech and many people would be happier sacrificing the 6x zoom for a wider angle as well as a reduciton in noise above 400

Fairly good value at 270 Pounds(UK)

You probably don't need to be too concerned about the slow FPS rate or other things that your DSLR can do much better.

Marco Cinnirella said:

I am thinking of adding the G9 to my aresenal of cameras - I alreaady
have bridge, very small compact, and DSLR cameras. My use for the G9
camera would be on short vacations primarily, where I don't want to
have to carry around a full DSLR kit, and maybe also for some street
photography as well. I like good build quality and full manual
controls, hence my attraction towards the G9.

Click to expand...

me too, for all of the above. in good daylight i think think the IQ is superb. i look forward to using it in the big cities of asia. very handy zoom range and good detail.

Marco Cinnirella said:

Some things worry me and I would like your views on them:-

1. Fine detail and noise reduction 'smudging' - I have looked at some
of the sample images available - I prefer 'real world' ones rather
than sterile studio tests. With images of things like landscapes with
lots of fine detail in them, such as distant foliage, I think I can
see a lot of fine low contrast detail often gets blurred in G9 shots,
presumably due to noise reduction, and even at relatively low ISOs.
In relation to this: has anyone else noted this? From what ISO
upwards? Is the problem only on JPEGS or do you find it also in Raw?

Click to expand...

who knows? this might qualify as low contrast. you can see much of the grain in the wood to the right of the camera:

Marco Cinnirella said:

2. size and weight - is this cam really that much lighter and smaller
than a small DSLR? Some reviewers say it is a bit bulky and heavy.
None of my local stores carry the G9 so I can't get my hands on one
to try it out.

Click to expand...

yes, it is smaller, but it's sometimes difficult to know what to do with it when your not using it. it's just big enough to NOT fit real well w/ a light jacket. neck strap? hand strap? stored in backpack? i find it kind of awkward. in the end, i'll probably use some combination of smallish backpack along with the neck strap.

a dslr is nice because it's "always on". the G9 goes from on to off, off to on, and back an forth. this can be frustrating to someone that's used dslr's.

Marco Cinnirella said:

3. High ISO - I expect 1600+ to be bad with that many MP on that size
sensor. Do G9 raw images at high ISO respond well to post-processing
NR such as via Neat Image or Noise Ninja, or does the camera
obliterate fine detail that means that even with Neat Image, you
can't recover that lost detail?

Click to expand...

i don't know about most of this, only that some iso 400 - 800 shots look better than others, depending on the detail and light.

Marco Cinnirella said:

Thanks for your time, and sorry to ask questions that have been
probably asked a lot before.

--
'...and the meek shall inherit the earth...' (Peart)

Click to expand...

After handling my sister-in-law's new G9 last week, I am thinking of getting one for myself. The camera seems quite light to me- I am sure that I could carry it all day and not be bothered much by it- very important consideration to me.

The build is solid and it is the quality that you would enjoy using.

I like the level of customization that you can avail yourself of. This is also important to me.

I would probably add the extra grip and lens hood that you can buy.
The extra stick on grip would be nice for me; although you don't really need it.

I would like to have the lens hood for protection when I am using it in the woods and I think it might be an extra hand hold- kind of like how you would hold your 35mm.

I don't know about image quality. I do know that you would have to get to know it, but I think I could get some outstanding images with it.

I know what you are saying about the blurriness but I do think that If that were a problem with me, then I would in some situations (or maybe all) shoot RAW and do my own conversion. Having used Canon cameras for 38 years now, I don't expect any image quality issues because I have never had any concerns before.

I could use the optical viewfinder without any problems even while wearing glasses. Sometimes, I like to turn off the LCD viewfinder off to preserve battery life and I could do that with this camera and be comfortable using it (I think).

Just mu thoughts after playing around with one.

....really high ISO shots.

When I bought my G9 I expected to like it a lot. Well, I like it a whole lot more than I thought I would! I'm a DSLR junkie, a perfectionist, very critical of IQ compared to many people on these forums. The G9 does almost everything I'd like it to do. I carry it around a lot - in my pocket - or in a little belt pack - and I do take it on short vacations, where I wouldn't take my 20D. On a long "once in a lifetime" vacation I take both the 20D and the G9, and I use them both.

While the G9 lens is not quite** as good as my L lenses, it's a good lens. For most subjects, the IQ of the G9 and the 20D are so close that you won't notice the difference, even in a fairly large print of 12X18 or (perhaps) even larger. I read of people printing at 20X30 and reporting excellent results, but I have no experience with that.

As someone else wrote, the lens is good edge to edge, with little CA or purple fringing.

As for weight and size, I have to disagree - I do** think it's small enough to carry in a pocket. I do that very frequently.

I have very large hands, and the ergonomics are good enough so the camera is very easy to use. In fact it's easier to use than my 20D.

Fine detail - despite the DPreview review, the fine detail is all there, even at ISO 200. At ISO 400, if you look very carefully, you will see a slight dropoff in fine detail. I do mean a very slight dropoff. If you aren't looking for it specifically and critically, you won't notice any dropoff. See below regarding examples.

Noise - this is not** a problem, with careful exposure, even at ISO 400. The trick is to watch the histogram, keep its right tip at the right edge of the screen. Just a little twitch to the left of the histo screen will allow a big increase in the noise. In other words, "expose to the right" as we are so often told!

I do use a noise reduction program if I'm shooting at ISO above 100 (I told you, I'm picky). I use Noise Ninja but Neat Image or Noiseware will work fine at ISOs 200 and 400. It takes only the barest touch of NR at these ISOs, and I don't use NR over the entire image, just where noise shows up prominently. I can send examples privately if you like.

ISO 800 and 1600, in my hands, are not good with the G9. I doubt very much that you will find any compact camera which does ISO 800 or 1600 well, unless you're willing to accept a tremendous loss of image detail.

I've used ISO 800 occasionally for "salvage shots". If they don't require much fine detail, they clean up okay with carefully applied NR program - and, in the worst places for chroma noise, a little gaussian blur. I can send a few examples privately if you like.

If you want to do action shots, shutter lag is a problem, as it is with any of the compact cameras. The lag is "only" about 0.1 sec, but that's still too slow to capture a running dog or child, or a sports event. I've used the G9 for these things, but you do have to get lucky to be successful. Here, nothing replaces your DSLR.

The other significant limitation, which is also common to all the small-sensor cameras, is limited dynamic range. Most of the time, this isn't really a problem, but in bright sunlight it can be. Shooting RAW helps a lot, and I usually do shoot RAW with the G9. With either RAW or JEPG, take great care not to blow highlights (though some recovery is possible with RAW) - use a little highlight recovery when you process (curves or levels, not "autolevels"), and use a little boost of the deepest shadows (use Curves, or the Shadows/Highlights adjustment of ACR).

Shooting JPEG, if you want the best results from the G9, set sharpness all the way off. In bright sunlight, consider setting contrast and saturation back 1/2 of the way. If needed, these can easily be added back during processing, and in bright sunlight, the G9 provides a rather contrasty, saturated image in JPEG - so usually you don't lost any IQ by "adding back" contrast or sat.

The image below is just a shapshot from a few days ago - ISO 400 - processed in ACR and finished in PS CS3 with a very slight touch of NR in the background and the cat's undersides. This small web image doesn't do justice to the excellent amount of fine detail which is available in this image. I have other ISO 400s I can send, and some ISO 800s as well.

Bill

if you already have compact and dslr cams and enjoy/afford having various shooting options, you'll probably get some mileage out of the g9. It's too big for me to use most of the time. I still find myslef with the sd950 as my walk around. A g9 on my belt just doesn't cut it. It weights too much.

It is fun to use for the zoom - it's really good - as is the responsiveness. the manual iso wheel is one of the nicer features! IMHO I've found that generally 400+ iso shots look grainy/more washed out. (no surprise for the sensor size) - still useable, but noticeable noisy imo.

Like others have said, try it out if you can.

The more you read about the G9, the more complaints you will see about the noise at high ISO. However, it appears to me it is coming from folks that know what to expect from using good DSLR equipment. The G9 is not a DSLR, so they should quit complaining about the G9 not being able to produce DSLR results, IMHO.

I got mine about three weeks ago, and it has replaced my Canon A620, so I am very happy with my upgrade. The G9 is the same size as my A620, but it is about the same weight, since the A620 uses four AA batteries. Unlike many others, I am finding I do not need the custom grip added (yet), since I'm adapting to the original design of it. I also am finding I actually prefer the neck strap, even though I am used to using a wrist strap with the A620.

My A620 only goes up to ISO 400, so I'm not used to the nose-bleed heights of ISO 800 or 1600. Yes it shows noise up there, but I don't use it that much, yet. I'm learning my limits, and enjoying what it can do, and it does it very well for my experience level.

Here are some links related to the G9 noise, and a real world experience.

http://www.photoaficionado.com/tips/noise_g9.html

http://www.outbackphoto.com/CONTENT_2007_01/section_gear_cameras/20080206_Canon_G9/index_pr.html

Dennis

taken straight out of camera from this morning. I'd like to see what others can do with this G9 file?

yooperguy said:

The more you read about the G9, the more complaints you will see
about the noise at high ISO. However, it appears to me it is coming
from folks that know what to expect from using good DSLR equipment.
The G9 is not a DSLR, so they should quit complaining about the G9
not being able to produce DSLR results, IMHO.

I got mine about three weeks ago, and it has replaced my Canon A620,
so I am very happy with my upgrade. The G9 is the same size as my
A620, but it is about the same weight, since the A620 uses four AA
batteries. Unlike many others, I am finding I do not need the custom
grip added (yet), since I'm adapting to the original design of it. I
also am finding I actually prefer the neck strap, even though I am
used to using a wrist strap with the A620.

My A620 only goes up to ISO 400, so I'm not used to the nose-bleed
heights of ISO 800 or 1600. Yes it shows noise up there, but I don't
use it that much, yet. I'm learning my limits, and enjoying what it
can do, and it does it very well for my experience level.

Here are some links related to the G9 noise, and a real world
experience.

http://www.photoaficionado.com/tips/noise_g9.html

http://www.outbackphoto.com/CONTENT_2007_01/section_gear_cameras/20080206_Canon_G9/index_pr.html

Dennis

Click to expand...

joejoe wrote:
400+ iso shots look grainy/more washed

joejoe said:

out.

Click to expand...

See the image at the end of my long note earlier in this thread. This kind of result isn't an abberration. It's reproducible in a wide variety of situations - but it does require careful exposure, and at least some processing.

Bill

Levels - not Autolevels - sharpening with USM - a little gaussian blur in the sky - and a fair amount of "global contrast enhancement" to the brownish red building at the right. That last maneuver caused some noise to show up at 100%, but IMO it makes the building look a little less blah at 70% mag and below. There is also a little noise in the darker buildings toward the background. None of it would show up at less than 100% mag, or in a print. All that noise could be removed with a NR program like Noise Ninja, but I did not use any noise reduction (as such) for this job.

It was saved at quality 4, so the original looks much better. Even so, the file is large, at almost 1 MB. When you're looking for fine detail, best to post a crop of the original.

Bill

Thanks to everyone for all your helpful replies.

I'm still on the fence about the G9 - it looks to me like I would want to post-process any G9 images shot at ISO 400 (and some ISO 200 ones) or above, but below that maybe nothing more than levels, curves and USM is needed...
--
'...and the meek shall inherit the earth...' (Peart)

I don't have much in the way of landscapes with vegetation but here's a jpeg straight from the G9 on my first day playing with it. The " original " size is just that.
http://upload.pbase.com/howards/image/95975406/small

Thanks, it was useful looking at that. I think I am spoiled because one of my bridge cams is the Sony R1, and that is extremely sharp with its Carl Zeiss T* optics - its pixel level resolution when shooting raw is phenomenal. There is no smudging of fine detail when using raw on the R1, even at ISO 800. I don't see that same level of resolution in G9 shots, and I see PF in quite a few G9 shots too. I am still drawn towards the G9 though, for its controls and build, and it is smaller than my R1...

Hmm - anyone got an idea of when a G10 might come out ;-)

Howard S said:

I don't have much in the way of landscapes with vegetation but here's
a jpeg straight from the G9 on my first day playing with it. The "
original " size is just that.
http://upload.pbase.com/howards/image/95975406/small

Click to expand...

--
'...and the meek shall inherit the earth...' (Peart)

H'm at pixel level I don't think any compact will trouble on with an APS-c sensor

At output sizes however I've very happy with my results. As you are happy using RAW here's a sample from RAW with a fair amount of detail, but not many leaves if you want to look.

http://www.pbase.com/howards/image/95978610

Marco Cinnirella said:

Hmm - anyone got an idea of when a G10 might come out ;-)

Howard S said:

I don't have much in the way of landscapes with vegetation but here's
a jpeg straight from the G9 on my first day playing with it. The "
original " size is just that.
http://upload.pbase.com/howards/image/95975406/small

Click to expand...

--
'...and the meek shall inherit the earth...' (Peart)

Click to expand...

curves, contrast, noise ninja, smart sharpen except the sky - needs more careful sharpening though

I tried a G9 for about two weeks and returned it, which I rarely do. To me it was too much of a 'neither nor' thing. I'm going to pick up a truly slim, pocketable cam for snaps which I will print without processing and keep using the DSLR for hardcore work in RAW meant for PS. This means there will be shots I miss because I left the big camera at home, when the G9 might have come close. So be it.

This is not meant as a knock on the G9 - I think it is great at what it is, it just didn't fit my personality. If I could afford and justify three cameras I would keep it. Instead I will get a pocket rocket for $200 and spend the $300 difference on another lens for the DSLR.

my sentiments (and personality), too. the G9 is just a little too feature-rich (a waste for me) and large for my liking. if i really want better looking images i've got the 40d.

i'm sending mine back for the A720is. i've got several AA rechargable that need to be used.

JFMoore said:

I tried a G9 for about two weeks and returned it, which I rarely do.
To me it was too much of a 'neither nor' thing. I'm going to pick
up a truly slim, pocketable cam for snaps which I will print without
processing and keep using the DSLR for hardcore work in RAW meant for
PS. This means there will be shots I miss because I left the big
camera at home, when the G9 might have come close. So be it.

This is not meant as a knock on the G9 - I think it is great at what
it is, it just didn't fit my personality. If I could afford and
justify three cameras I would keep it. Instead I will get a pocket
rocket for $200 and spend the $300 difference on another lens for the
DSLR.

Click to expand...