PC to Mac switchers - hard to do? happy?

Now, you tell me, if (and I may misunderstand the thrust of your
post, so forgive me if I do) OS X is so good, why is that Apple
accounts for less than 2% of computer sales? (You can vary that
slightly for geographical region etc, but it turns out much the same)
Now, you tell me, if a BMW is so good compared to a Yugo, why is it
that BMW accounted for so few car sales compared to Yugos?
  • or -
Eat ! 100 trillion flies CAN'T be wrong!!!
Sorry. Your analogy is ridiculous. First, BMW is no longer that good. Second, comparing Windows to a Yugo shows you've never driven a Yugo.

I must admit, though, that about 95% of what I've heard about Vista is negative, comparable in some ways to the ME disaster. I'm sticking with XP until 7 gets here.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

 
I find that the people who prefer Windows tend to be the experts. The people who understand computers back to front and are not phased by the complications involved. For the rest of us, Mac seems to be so much easier, straightforward and less hassle.

The fact that most people use Windows is not because it's better, its because most people use Windows. It's a viscious circle. Few people want to look into minority operating systems and that's why Mac remains a minority. Most of those who do go for the Mac however tend to love them.
 
Yes, thanks. I guess the sarcasm font wasn't' showing through well enough. My point was that although OS X is usually better behaved than XP, a user may well have to dig into the internals (plists in this case as opposed to the registry) to troubleshoot a problem.

Apple has a ways to go before they can really get a PC - wireless router - Internet configuration to work all of the time. Like a watch or toaster. Unfortunately, that's the expectation that Apple's marketing is presenting.

--
RG
http://www.lostrange.com
 
The fact that most people use Windows is not because it's better, its
because most people use Windows. It's a viscious circle. Few people
want to look into minority operating systems and that's why Mac
remains a minority.
I think this is incorrect for Europe. Apple's management in Europe maintained in the 80's and 90's extraordinary high prices, that nobody here would choose to afford, unless you were in a niche and had some strong desire for the range of applications that were made only for Apple at that time.

So most people bought PC's with Windows for economic reasons, and that's the vicious circle. The price of all computers has dropped in recent years, so the differential is now not so great, but unfortunately Apple failed to change fast enough and didn't incorporate many developers (particularly including the games developers) into the loop, and thence lost out on a large sector of the market who wanted computers that could play a range of games, and other newer software that wasn't available for Macs.
Most of those who do go for the Mac however tend to love them.
I wouldn't dispute that many people love them, but if all you do is surf and email, with the occasional letter, then you will be easily pleased no matter what you buy. I would also refer back to my previous comments about the Mac forums being full of gripes and groans: It's far from rosy over here.

As regards myself, I don't have higher regard for either OSX of Windows; It's like Pepsi Cola and Coca Cola. (as a famous Soviet president once remarked)
--
Jon Stewart
 
John Motts wrote:
snip
Most of those who do go for the Mac however tend
to love them.
I switched to Mac fifteen years ago to publish a photo magazine. Since then I've known, seen and read about an increasing number of folks who have also switched from PC to Mac.

However, what I find more revealing is that I've never known, seen or read about anyone switching from Mac to PC. I don't need to ask or wonder why!

--
Ed Buziak - Photographer / Writer
200+ articles at http://blogs.salon.com/0004217/
 
However, what I find more revealing is that I've never known, seen or
read about anyone switching from Mac to PC. I don't need to ask or
wonder why!
Look up the thread a bit.

There seems to be some very selective reading / hearing by outright Mac proponents in this thread :-) !

--
Jon Stewart
 
if all you do is
surf and email, with the occasional letter, then you will be easily
pleased no matter what you buy. I would also refer back to my
previous comments about the Mac forums being full of gripes and
groans: It's far from rosy over here.
Jon

This is a pro photographic forum - none of the Mac users here are talking about just surfing, e-mailing and the occasional letter.
 
However, what I find more revealing is that I've never known, seen or
read about anyone switching from Mac to PC. I don't need to ask or
wonder why!
Look up the thread a bit.

There seems to be some very selective reading / hearing by outright
Mac proponents in this thread :-) !
True. Mac/Apple becomes some kind of crusade. Some years ago, I had a client who could only accept Mac files. I bought a Mac. I had problems with said Mac. I had problems with Mac experts because they didn't believe that particular problem was possible, so couldn't fix it (at a 10 or 12 year remove, don't ask me what the problem was). I apologized to the client and dumped the Mac (actually, it has been sitting in the damp corner of my basement for a decade, rotting too slowly).

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

 
I do 99% of everything on Mac - but there's still some things for which I resort to XP.
A few examples are:

Torrent files - Transmission on the Mac still is horrible compared to something such as uTorrent on PC

Slideshows - I've got Proshow Gold on PC & Fotomagico on my Mac, and always transfer files across to the PC, Proshow really needs a Mac version - I think it'd sell really well!

Anything to do with DVD backup of movies, etc - programs on the PC such as dvdFab, Shrink, & Nero still trump their Mac counterparts in mu opinion.

So it really depends on what you're doing. I use my Mac for all web browsing, email, Photoshop, Lightroom, and countless other things, but Windows still has it's place in my arsenal.
--
http://www.instantphotos.co.nz
 
I was referring to the broader spectrum of users in this debate, as the problems with operating systems are not related specifically to photography. It seems a meaningless statement to suggest that if you are using 'photographic' related programs on a Mac, you will never have problems, which is what I would infer you are implying from your post. :-)
--
Jon Stewart
 
Back to the original question, every time my mac seems a little slow, I buy more RAM and see a big speed improvement. But you shouldn't focus on the one-or two-second differences in an act like opening a new application. I don't open or close iPhoto often, I just leave it on. Photoshop CSE takes a while to bring up, yes.

I'm a heavy computer user, on the net for hours a day and shuffling hundreds of photos daily. The amount of time I haven't spent doing computer maintenance is a big factor in my loyalty to apple. When I watched my wife struggle to debug and disinfect two Windows boxes after an attack of malicious code over the 'net, she wasn't wasting minutes, but hours and days of her free time. She made me buy a security program for my mac, which is on the same network, and it only uncovered a few dozen harmless cookies.

Hey, I saw in the paper today that there's a sizable movement among Windows users lobbying MS not to drop XP from their lineup. That speaks volumes, too. I'm unaware of any "Save OS 9" zealots among the mac world...
 
When I watched my wife struggle to debug and disinfect two Windows boxes
after an attack of malicious code over the 'net, she wasn't wasting
minutes, but hours and days of her free time.
You know, I watch 'The Dog Whisperer', more to see how incompetent the owners are. Many of them even know the theory, but fail to put it into practise. Maybe we should have a 'PC Whisperer', for owners of PC's who have problems.

You dear wife actually wasted her time by not having the right protection in the first place, knowing that PC's are more open to attack from this sort of thing. It's nice to have a mac proponant reinforce a point I made earlier.

In all my years using PC's I've never had a successful viral infection, trojan or malware attack. Why? Nothing simpler... It's called NOD32. Currently we have 5 pc's in the house, two of which are the kids (computers), which have minimal parental controls. It's not like I'm talking about 1 PC used by a responsible adult here!

I've just spent 24 hours with a new MBP that has just screwed up it's own file permissions. It had for the last 18 hours been trying to repair them, but I've given up on that, and am installing my base disc image, onto it again. I've just realised why Apple have 'Targetted Disc Mode'. Thanks goodness I have another Mac to plug it into.

As regards your other point about not saving OS9; When Leopard came out and many many users upgraded from Tiger, the forums were suddenly flooded with posts about how to downgrade back to Tiger, because of the huge number of bugs with Leopard. (I personally had no problem with Leopard; Maybe this comes down to the users rather than the Software / Hardware?)
--
Jon Stewart
 
Jon

You reinforce my opinion that the people who get on well with PCs are the experts. You seem to do just fine because you know your stuff, but the vast majority of us are not absolute experts and don't wish to get too involved under the hood.

Personally, I'm utterly convinced that this is where the Mac comes into its own. Of course it's not perfect, but it's usually a lot less trouble than a PC. And before you say it, yes the fact that there are far fewer viruses is mainly down to the fact that it's a minority OS, but that's fine with us Mac users.
 
John,
I think there are two issues here, in this thread.

1. How easy is it to manage a PC so that it doesn't cause problems all the time.
2. IS Mac OS X better on the basis that it is easier to manage.

I do have a Masters in Computer Science, but notwithstanding that, I believe that PC's can be managed effectively, by the average user, with far less input of time than most people seem to require. As I said in an earlier post, your choice of operating system depends on your background and experiences, and what you want out of it.

I think what I object to in this thread is some sweeping generalisation that 'Windows is bad, Mac OS X is good'. Both operating systems are fine to use, depending on your needs. Both have their deficiencies, and both have advantages, so it comes down to personal choice. I use what I need to use to get the job done. On the MBP (currently having the base image reinstalled!) I use OS X with Vista in Parallels, and on the Macpro, Vista, or when I need to connect the MBP to something to fix it in targetted disk mode, Mac OS X.

I think what is useful today, as opposed to 10 years ago, is that the two (operating systems and hardware) are not mutually exclusive, and you can easily have both operating systems (and their programs) in your arsenal, for when you need them.

All the best
--
Jon Stewart
 
...how do you uninstall a program on a mac,
i opened several other programs, and each took (what seemed to me) an inordinate amount of time to open - i dont get it.
On a Mac, you uninstall a program by simply dragging the program icon to the trash bin. Unlike Windows with its huge array of hidden files that are installed in multiple locations on the computer, the Mac programs are contained in a single file icon. Having an entire program contained in a single file ("icon") is a very simple concept, but one that Windows users are not familiar with.

Initial opening of some programs (like the poorly coded Microsoft Office For Mac program) takes a few seconds. What you don't realize with a Windows background is that these programs can have the windows closed out of sight while still running as a background process.

Unlike Windows (which will slow to a crawl with too many programs running at the same time) Macs are designed to allow for optimized memory allocation and containment.

Basically, you can leave open all of your favorite programs for instant access without degrading the performance of your computer.

The Mac dock is like the Windows favorites. If you want to create an icon for one of your preferred programs, just drag the program icon from the Applications folder to the dock and the Mac will create a shortcut there for you automatically.

I switched to Mac and I'll never buy another Windows computer again. With Parallels running Windows XP (like my Mac is set up for), there's no reason to have two computers anymore. My iMac runs both Windows and Mac. It's the best of both worlds.

-joedy
 
...how do you uninstall a program on a mac,
i opened several other programs, and each took (what seemed to me) an inordinate amount of time to open - i dont get it.
On a Mac, you uninstall a program by simply dragging the program icon
to the trash bin. Unlike Windows with its huge array of hidden files
that are installed in multiple locations on the computer, the Mac
programs are contained in a single file icon. Having an entire
program contained in a single file ("icon") is a very simple concept,
but one that Windows users are not familiar with.
Completely wrong. If you'd read through the thread, you would have realised that. Many applications do drop files over the disk, in areas other than the applications folder!

I don't disrespect the rest of your post, btw, but this bit is just peddling the sort of untruths that Apple crusaders use to try and convince that Mac OS X is good, and windows is bad :-)

Hope this helps

--
Jon Stewart
 
On a Mac, you uninstall a program by simply dragging the program icon
to the trash bin. Unlike Windows with its huge array of hidden files
that are installed in multiple locations on the computer, the Mac
programs are contained in a single file icon. Having an entire
program contained in a single file ("icon") is a very simple concept,
but one that Windows users are not familiar with.
Completely wrong. If you'd read through the thread, you would have
realised that. Many applications do drop files over the disk, in
areas other than the applications folder!
It's not completely wrong at all. For the majority of applications, dragging to the trash is sufficient.

Although there may be files elsewhere, there is no harm in leaving them on the hard drive, other using a very small amount of disk space. In fact, there's no harm in leaving the application either. Deleting the application is usually the bulk of the space, however, some applications have a lot of templates (e.g., iDVD), so it might be worthwhile to delete those as well if disk space is running low.

The exception is if a driver, kernel extension or something else low level is installed, and those normally come with an uninstaller to properly remove all the parts.
 
On a Mac, you uninstall a program by simply dragging the program icon
to the trash bin. Unlike Windows with its huge array of hidden files
that are installed in multiple locations on the computer, the Mac
programs are contained in a single file icon. Having an entire
program contained in a single file ("icon") is a very simple concept,
but one that Windows users are not familiar with.
Completely wrong. If you'd read through the thread, you would have
realised that. Many applications do drop files over the disk, in
areas other than the applications folder!
It's not completely wrong at all. For the majority of applications,
dragging to the trash is sufficient.

Although there may be files elsewhere, there is no harm in leaving
them on the hard drive, other using a very small amount of disk
space. In fact, there's no harm in leaving the application either.
Deleting the application is usually the bulk of the space, however,
some applications have a lot of templates (e.g., iDVD), so it might
be worthwhile to delete those as well if disk space is running low.
You contradict me, and then contradict yourself, contradicting me. You also encourage leaving various unnecessary files littered around the hard drive. Do you really think this is a good idea? When space gets low, how do you know what files you can delete, and which you can't? Seems a lot simpler to me to use Cleanapp or similar and be done with it!

I think your post is most ill conceived ;-)
The exception is if a driver, kernel extension or something else low
level is installed, and those normally come with an uninstaller to
properly remove all the parts.
So, now it's not enough to drag to the bin; you have to use an uninstaller. How is this different from windows?

(and, btw, there are likely to be consequences of leaving low level components on your hard drive - best to use the uninstaller)

Do you guys actually read what you write before posting?
--
Jon Stewart
 
On a Mac, you uninstall a program by simply dragging the program icon
to the trash bin. Unlike Windows with its huge array of hidden files
that are installed in multiple locations on the computer, the Mac
programs are contained in a single file icon. Having an entire
program contained in a single file ("icon") is a very simple concept,
but one that Windows users are not familiar with.
Completely wrong. If you'd read through the thread, you would have
realised that. Many applications do drop files over the disk, in
areas other than the applications folder!
It's not completely wrong at all. For the majority of applications,
dragging to the trash is sufficient.

Although there may be files elsewhere, there is no harm in leaving
them on the hard drive, other using a very small amount of disk
space. In fact, there's no harm in leaving the application either.
Deleting the application is usually the bulk of the space, however,
some applications have a lot of templates (e.g., iDVD), so it might
be worthwhile to delete those as well if disk space is running low.
You contradict me, and then contradict yourself, contradicting me.
You also encourage leaving various unnecessary files littered around
the hard drive. Do you really think this is a good idea?
Where's the contradiction? With rare exception, there's absolutely no detrimental effect in leaving them, other than disk space. And most of the time, it's very little disk space.
When space
gets low, how do you know what files you can delete, and which you
can't? Seems a lot simpler to me to use Cleanapp or similar and be
done with it!
There's no method to reliably find all of the parts so there's no guarantee that an uninstall utility will get it right. Most of the time it probably does, but what if it doesn't?
The exception is if a driver, kernel extension or something else low
level is installed, and those normally come with an uninstaller to
properly remove all the parts.
So, now it's not enough to drag to the bin; you have to use an
uninstaller. How is this different from windows?
As I said, that's the exception. The vast majority of applications do not install drivers, kexts or other system level stuff and do not require a special uninstaller, so all it takes is dragging to the trash.
(and, btw, there are likely to be consequences of leaving low level
components on your hard drive - best to use the uninstaller)
What consequences do you anticipate and how likely do you think they might be? It's a lot less than you might think. Also, some can be dynamically loaded, so even if they're installed, they aren't even active if they're not used.
Do you guys actually read what you write before posting?
I do.
 

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