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Unusual problem, please help

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Pabletto and Marko,

I think all your opinions are very interesting and I started also to think what could be the problem. I want to emphasize that the problem with overexpsure/underexposure could be related with the external flash but it appears even when NO FLASH IS USED. The fact the the problem appears randomly and in only certain apertures confuses me a little bit. In my opinion there are no high voltages or currents between the camera and the external flash by the simple fact that the external flash has independant power source. I really do not have a clue how attaching the external flash could cause such big problem as the overexposure/underexposure problem.

For me it is also strange that almost nobody is complaining about this fact. Is it so that for me the overexposure/underexposure appears to be more often than for the other people? With such problem this camera can not be used for a serious work.
Marko Björkroth said:
Pabletto said:
vladi said:
What is going on? It seems the camera has its own understanding for
shutter speeds and that shutter speeds are exchanged.
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with the camera confusing/mixing up the
shutter speeds.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree. I think Vladi is right. I had exactly the same
problem (a fast shutter speed = overexposure, a slow shutter speed
= underexposure)as he does. It looks like a corrupted timig table -
you do something wrong resulting in an overflow... just like the
manual white balance bug (setting a custom WB off a too weird light
source will render the custom white balance useless, you can no
longer save a new setting).

The D7 has a mechanical shutter, but I think it is very simple and
only used during the readout and while the camera is not being
used. The exposure is controlled entirely by the electornic
shutter. It has to be, there is no way to achieve a 1/2000 s flash
sync with a mechanical shutter!

The fastest leaf shutters can go up to 1/1000 s (e.g. Canon G2),
but only if a small aperture is used. Wide open the can only
achieve someting like 1/500 s.

Marko
Click to expand...
 
vladi said:
Pabletto and Marko,

I think all your opinions are very interesting and I started also
to think what could be the problem. I want to emphasize that the
problem with overexpsure/underexposure could be related with the
external flash but it appears even when NO FLASH IS USED.
Click to expand...
Yes, it sure does. the problem appears is the flash is on the camera and switched off and also if the flash is not on camera.
vladi said:
I really
do not have a clue how attaching the external flash could cause
such big problem as the overexposure/underexposure problem.
Click to expand...
I called MINOLTA the very first day I bought my flash. Before I attached in on the camera I asked and they said:

Camera: OFF
Flash: OFF
Attach flash on camera
Switch ON camera
Switch ON flash

Once you are done shooting:
Switch OFF flash
Switch OFF camera
vladi said:
For me it is also strange that almost nobody is complaining about
this fact. Is it so that for me the overexposure/underexposure
appears to be more often than for the other people? With such
problem this camera can not be used for a serious work.
Click to expand...
I agree. very little people have taken this seriously, although from what I understand reading the posts here the problem is the same for everyone.

--
Pabletto

http://www.pbase.com/pabletto
(samples taken with the MINOLTA DiMAGE 7)
Last update 26 February 2002 (MORE food photos)
 
Andrew Cruickshank said:
Marko Björkroth said:
It has to be, there is no way to achieve a 1/2000 s flash
sync with a mechanical shutter!
Click to expand...
Presumably it's an issue of cost and usefulness rather than
impossibility :)
Click to expand...
What about the D7i? It has a max. shutter speed of 1/4000 s. Do you really think Minolta redesigned the shutter and is now able to provide shutter speeds up to three or four times as fast as any other manufacturer can do - in any price class?

Marko
 
Pabletto said:
I called MINOLTA the very first day I bought my flash. Before I
attached in on the camera I asked and they said:

Camera: OFF
Flash: OFF
Attach flash on camera
Switch ON camera
Switch ON flash

Once you are done shooting:
Switch OFF flash
Switch OFF camera
Click to expand...
Pabletto said:
Pabletto
Click to expand...
Pabletto,

This reminds me 20 years ago when I was working on 8 bit computers. Then we had to turn first the monitor ON and the the computer. Then when have finished the work we had to turn OFF the computer and then the monitor.

But one think maybe Minolta did not think about. I want to spare the power of my batteries to the maximum so I am not using the LCD screen and my camera is auto power OFF mode. Once the Power OFF is activated and my flash is ON......Bye, bye camera........Does Minolta mean that?

As you see there is no way to save your camera.

Ok, Let's assume my camera is repaired. What next - seems not to destroy my camera I should not use an external flash. The people still need to be able to make photos also in low light conditions and all we know that the internal flash does not have the power to illuminate more than 3-4 meters.
 
vladi wrote:
But one think maybe Minolta did not think about. I want to spare
vladi said:
the power of my batteries to the maximum so I am not using the LCD
screen and my camera is auto power OFF mode. Once the Power OFF is
activated and my flash is ON......Bye, bye camera........Does
Minolta mean that?
Click to expand...
Well, Vladi, do not say that to me. CALL MINOLTA! Try saying that to them and see what they have to say. I agree that it is a stupid procedure and have also thought about that. But this is what they said, so this is what I forwarded. If you think you can provide a better answer that will help us all, then by all means please do so. Your answer will sure be more than welcome by us all.

Do you think I like having all this stupid incompatibility and rediculusly dumb problems?
vladi said:
As you see there is no way to save your camera.
Click to expand...
Only way I can think of is to set your camera at sleep after, say, 2 minutes and the flash after 3 minutes.

But then again, if in the meantime you try to change any settings on the flash, both timings will be un-synchronised, as the camera will still go in sleep mode before the flash (the flash's timer will be reset at the press of any button).
So, in that case it's cback to MINOLTA again.
vladi said:
Ok, Let's assume my camera is repaired. What next - seems not to
destroy my camera I should not use an external flash. The people
still need to be able to make photos also in low light conditions
and all we know that the internal flash does not have the power to
illuminate more than 3-4 meters.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. It looks like the MINOLTA cameras have more quirks than we even could have imagined! I can not comment on how good or bad the situation is though, as I do not know what other manufacturers do. But then again, a GBP800.00 is not the same as a GBP200.00, so I should much less problems.

--
Pabletto

http://www.pbase.com/pabletto
(samples taken with the MINOLTA DiMAGE 7)
Last update 26 February 2002 (MORE food photos)
 
Pabletto said:
Well, Vladi, do not say that to me. CALL MINOLTA! Try saying that
to them and see what they have to say. I agree that it is a stupid
procedure and have also thought about that. But this is what they
said, so this is what I forwarded. If you think you can provide a
better answer that will help us all, then by all means please do
so. Your answer will sure be more than welcome by us all.
Do you think I like having all this stupid incompatibility and
rediculusly dumb problems?
Click to expand...
Pabletto, I was talking first with customer center of Minolta, but they told me that something with my settings on the camera is wrong (like it is my fault) and they advised me to go the shop where I have bought the camera. I did so.... However, the salesman could not help except to take the camera for repair after he talked again with Minolta repair center.
Pabletto said:
Pabletto said:
As you see there is no way to save your camera.
Click to expand...
Only way I can think of is to set your camera at sleep after, say,
2 minutes and the flash after 3 minutes.
Click to expand...
If my camera is going to sleep after 2 min and the flash after 3 min then it is opposite to what you say - first the Flash OFF and then the camera OFF. However, is it possible to change the sleep time on 3600 HS or it is only for 5600 HS? By the way do you have idea why 3600 HS can not be put in Auto mode (except On and Off)? On film Minolta camera this is possible.
Pabletto said:
Pabletto said:
Ok, Let's assume my camera is repaired. What next - seems not to
destroy my camera I should not use an external flash. The people
still need to be able to make photos also in low light conditions
and all we know that the internal flash does not have the power to
illuminate more than 3-4 meters.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Pabletto said:
I totally agree. It looks like the MINOLTA cameras have more quirks
than we even could have imagined! I can not comment on how good or
bad the situation is though, as I do not know what other
manufacturers do. But then again, a GBP800.00 is not the same as a
GBP200.00, so I should much less problems.
Click to expand...
It is difficult to estimate how much are 800.00 or 200.00 but I know what you want to say. I have invested approx. 2270 euros in my camera (total prise+microdrive 1GB+flash).

However, is it already known if Dimage 7i has the same problem with the overexposure/underexposure like Dimage 7?
 
vladi said:
Pabletto said:
Well, Vladi, do not say that to me. CALL MINOLTA! Try saying that
to them and see what they have to say. I agree that it is a stupid
procedure and have also thought about that. But this is what they
said, so this is what I forwarded. If you think you can provide a
better answer that will help us all, then by all means please do
so. Your answer will sure be more than welcome by us all.
Do you think I like having all this stupid incompatibility and
rediculusly dumb problems?
Click to expand...
Pabletto, I was talking first with customer center of Minolta, but
they told me that something with my settings on the camera is wrong
(like it is my fault) and they advised me to go the shop where I
have bought the camera. I did so.... However, the salesman could
not help except to take the camera for repair after he talked again
with Minolta repair center.
Click to expand...
MINOLTA are always good at jokes(!).
vladi said:
vladi said:
vladi said:
As you see there is no way to save your camera.
Click to expand...
Only way I can think of is to set your camera at sleep after, say,
2 minutes and the flash after 3 minutes.
Click to expand...
If my camera is going to sleep after 2 min and the flash after 3
min then it is opposite to what you say - first the Flash OFF and
then the camera OFF.
Click to expand...
Uhmm, yes. Quite right. That's the other way around. I got them mixed up. Thanks for noticing that.
vladi said:
However, is it possible to change the sleep
time on 3600 HS or it is only for 5600 HS?
Click to expand...
I do not know about those as I have neither. I own a SunPak PZ-5000AF with which I am very happy. And also with the price I paid.

But if you can not change the sleep time of your flash, your can always adjust your camera to sleep one minute after your flash. Your documentation should say after how long the flash sleeps. Although it may be even simpler to time it.
vladi said:
By the way do you have
idea why 3600 HS can not be put in Auto mode (except On and Off)?
On film Minolta camera this is possible.
Click to expand...
Sorry, as I said above I do not own either, so no idea. Maybe someone else can help.
vladi said:
However, is it already known if Dimage 7i has the same problem with
the overexposure/underexposure like Dimage 7?
Click to expand...
I guess no. There are very few users here that have managed to buy the D7i and most of them are trying to get to know it, so I doubt any of those will have used an external flash with their D7i. It took me about 9 months to decide to buy one, especially considering all the research I wanted to do.

--
Pabletto

http://www.pbase.com/pabletto
(samples taken with the MINOLTA DiMAGE 7)
Last update 26 February 2002 (MORE food photos)
 
Marko Björkroth said:
Andrew Cruickshank said:
Marko Björkroth said:
It has to be, there is no way to achieve a 1/2000 s flash
sync with a mechanical shutter!
Click to expand...
Presumably it's an issue of cost and usefulness rather than
impossibility :)
Click to expand...
What about the D7i? It has a max. shutter speed of 1/4000 s. Do you
really think Minolta redesigned the shutter and is now able to
provide shutter speeds up to three or four times as fast as any
other manufacturer can do - in any price class?
Click to expand...
No. I don't think the D7 / D7i have a regular timed open/close shutter.

However the small CCD consumer digicams would be more viable when
it comes to fast sync speeds with FP shutters due to the much smaller
size compared to 35mm. If APS SLRs had taken off then there would
have been a similar but lesser opportunity to increase shutter sync
speeds beyond the 35mm norms.

--
---------------
Andrew.
 
Pabletto said:
But if you can not change the sleep time of your flash, your can
always adjust your camera to sleep one minute after your flash.
Your documentation should say after how long the flash sleeps.
Although it may be even simpler to time it.
Click to expand...
Pabletto, I can not believe that I really opened the manual of the flash and I started to re-read it. I found very interesting things:

"Power is supplied to this flash (3600 HS) automatically (auto power on) in the following situation
-when the camera is used with the flash attached
-when the flash on/off button is pressed"

"Auto power off - power is switched off automatically .....when the camera or flash is not used for four minutes....The time of auto power off may be changed or disabled"

However, as you can see you can switch the Flash before the camera, but it is impossible (according to the manual) to switch the Flash after the camera is On. According to the manual theoretically the Flash is switched ON once is attached to the camera.
 
vladi said:
My flash is 3600 HS. I have tested my camera only in "program
mode", in "aperture priority mode" and "shutter priority mode". In
all of them I have this overexposure or underexposure. In fact the
problem is caused by the fact that shutter speed of 1/30 behaves
like 1/2000 (it is very fast) and shutter speed of 1/2000 behaves
like 1/30 (very slow - the aperture is open longer at 1/2000 than
at 1/30). I test it and I can prove it with my shots taken at the
same conditions, but with different shutter speeds in "shutter
priority mode".

Kent, could you please try if you have the same strange behaviour
of your camera, as described above.
Click to expand...
I had a similar experience shooting over the weekend.

Gross overexposure shooting at 1/2000th second and at f8 on a cloudy, overcast day.

I am using the 5600 flash with software version 122 (US).

--
Kent
San Francisco
 
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