Canon Strikes Back...

...in each category. Over time people see this. And when they have such a camera, it needs to be useable, not just feature laden. That is part of what I mean by best. Digitalness AND Cameraness. Things like that lead to higher customer satisfaction. (Canon came in a distant 3rd in the DSLR Customer Satisfaction Index, while Nikon enjoyed a solid win).

Canon can do it, if they revise their philosophy.
 
They have proven several times in a row now, that they will try for
the minimum upgrade that will preserve their product heirarchy and
margins regardless of what customers think.
I don't know that I would really call anything they've done aside from the 20D-30D transition a minimum upgrade.
The '5DII' (7D - whatever) will be a 40D with larger sensor and lower
frame-rate.
Possibly if they wanted to do a dual level prosumer camera, one with 1.6x and one with FF, but I don't suspect they're interested in pursuing that product lineup. It didn't work with the APS SLRs they made several years ago (which happened to be some of the nicest consumer level cameras they were making at the time), and it's difficult to recoup investment if you target two cameras to the same group of consumers.
There is still room for a 3D, but Canon have shown already that they
have no intention of making such a cam.
Canon only has the very first incarnation of the 5D; it's pretty difficult to discern their intentions from that. When they speak of it, they treat it as though it were a professional camera, so it leads me to believe that this level of camera will continue to be thought of as a professional level camera internally, and will therefore have certain professional level features. Certainly there's a lot of people that would consider the 5D to be a 30D with a FF sensor, but Canon clearly puts the 30D at the prosumer range and the 5D somewhat higher.
What's odd is that Canon did once see a place for the Eos 3 film camera.
But, it came only when film-cam sales had largely stagnated
pre-digital - perhaps as a way to tweak those last few $ from users.
It did not, it came at a time when there was a lot of new and very useful technology being developed, and when film sales were very strong. It was the first professional level camera to offer E-TTL, the first camera to offer the Area AF, it was the only professional level camera to ever offer ECF, and focus tracking and accuracy was greatly improved over previous cameras. Compared to the EOS 3, the EOS-1n was a fairly antiquated camera, but the EOS 3 shared it's dust and weather resistence.

Really though, the EOS 3 was the direct replacement for the EOS 5/A2/A2e, and it was not only technologically a big step up, it was almost a totally new level of camera. However, the EOS-1v which came out a couple of years later would take everything the EOS 3 had to the next level, and sales of both models were quite good.

Of course, both EOS 3 and EOS-1v were essentially responses to Nikon's F5. So the potential for the 5D replacement to be a response to Nikon's D3 (which I'm sure Canon had a good, if rough, idea of what it was going to be) I don't think is out of the question. I don't in my wildest dreams expect the 5D replacement to compete with the same market as the D3, but I still wouldn't be surprised to see a much more professional quality camera replace the 5D. Even without knowledge of the D3, there was sufficient criticism of the 5D not being enough D200-like that it would seem to me that Canon--with their apparent greater willingness to listen to reviewers--may have already been planning a better camera.
Would be v sad if the 3D that so many would buy today, has been
strategically reserved for a final money-grab when the market has
already slowed down.
I've never seen any of the major manufacturers do anything that I'd consider to be a "money-grab." Besides, Canon doesn't even need to make "money-grabs" as their camera division creates only a small portion of their overall profit.
I'm liking Nikon's attitude at the moment a lot better. More of a
build the best products we can, than a build the worst products we
can still sell.
You mean except for the D40s? But yeah, it's nice that they've finally decided to compete in the professional camera world again.
Canon's rigid product line has painted them into a corner imho.
Well, I do think Nikon's new cameras have taken a lot of the wind out of Canon's sails, at least value-wise. And honestly, I think it's a little silly for Canon--or anyone else for that matter--to attempt to compete with medium format cameras for studio use. The 1Ds mkII served its place as a high end print journalism camera for rugged environments when full page spreads were potentially needed. I know a lot of National Geographic photographers were using them, along with some of the photogs for some of the nicer luxury magazines. But honestly, I don't see that the mk III is needed.
The only thing Canon
have that Nikon don't is the 1Ds, so Canon won't want to mess with
that. However, Nikon can kill that too with a D3x next year.
I don't think Nikon's going to do a D3x, otherwise the D3 would be the D3h; think of the speculative marketing potential they missed out on if that was the plan. And besides, a D3x is largely unnecessary, and would simply be for bragging rights like the new mk III.
Leaving Canon with what? A new drebel?
And probably a new 5D early in the year. So what's Nikon going to have? A new D40 and D80, and probably some new consumer lenses. Next year's not going to be as exciting for the major players, but maybe there'll be some news from Olympus, Pentax, and Sony.
Nice move Nikon.
Yeah, the D3 looks to be quite a camera, and a well targeted one at that.
 
...in each category. Over time people see this. And when they have
such a camera, it needs to be useable, not just feature laden. That
is part of what I mean by best.
And exactly which cameras are currently not useable? All the ones I've had/used have been flawless.
Digitalness AND Cameraness.
Meaningless and made up words again??
Things like that lead to higher customer satisfaction. (Canon came in a
distant 3rd in the DSLR Customer Satisfaction Index, while Nikon
enjoyed a solid win).
Based on a sampling of 7200 people, according to the CNet site. That's a strong sampling, I'd say. Why don't you take your cheerleading and "fanboyness" over to the Nikon Forum where I'm certain it'll be most appreciated. :)
Canon can do it, if they revise their philosophy.
Well hopefully they'll listen to YOU and you'll be our new savior
--
~ Kevin ~

Visit my newly created gallery: http://www.NatureImagesByKevin.com

You can find me also at:
http://www.Pixel-Shooter.com
 
If sensor resolution and body are the only variables I do not
understand your price difference.
The price is determined by the market. In other words, they set the price to maximize profits. What else would we expect them to do? The actual cost of the components plays a very minor role in DSLRs.
 
You're saying there's no competitor to the 5D likely to appear. That's simply absurd. It will happen, the only question is when.
I think that you need to check release history, Nikon releasing one time in two years. I don’t think they will release anything same time as new 5D mk II, they are done with new models.

Other brands will not provide much competition to 5D, even if they will release FF level of Canon/Nikon popularity is much higher and by the time people recognize new hypothetical FF camera from other brand (Sony, Pentax ...whatever) Canon will release new one.

--



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My gallery: http://www.pbase.com/breitling65/best_of_
 
Quite simply, if the higher end camera cost $200 more to make, that doesn't mean canon would sell it for $200 more. There is a greater profit margin in higher end cameras because the people who buy them

(a) have the money to do so which means
(b) higher disposable income, and
(c) less resisitance to higher purchase price (price sensitivity) and#
(d) often a desire for the latest/greatest highest spec available

all of which means canon can and will bleed them as much as they can. And that means a significant price premium over the lower spec model. It's a type of "prestige" in a way. Google "market segmentation" to find out more...

--
warren prasek
web design ~ interactive media ~ photography
http://www.wprasek.com/
gearlist: a camera and some other stuff.
 
So a better solution would be to a 14 Mpix camera and boosted Digic III? That would keep the price & noise down too
Canon 5D MKII, Full-Frame, 16 Mpix CMOS, 6 fps, 1 x Digic III...
Forget it. A single Digic III cannot handle that much data. In the
1DIII and 1DsIII, each Digic III processes about 50MP/s. In the 40D,
the single Digic III processes about 65MP/s. No way is a single Digic
III going to process 16MP @ 6fps = 96MP/s, almost the same as two
Digic IIIs in the 1-series. 16MP @ 4fps, or 12.8MP @ 5fps, maybe.
--

A camera is a black box you can capture light in. A DSLR is a black box you can capture light in and see the light
 
It's as reliable as this 5DII wish list.

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com
 
well, probable specs actually .. don't know about the EC however,
that from what I heard canon decided it just didn't work well enough
to continue it's development... I'd rahter see canon continue on
what it's doing with the grips and expand that futher to include GPS
automatically and also more expandibility.
Chuck Westfall was on record in one of his columns in the Digital Journalist a few months back as stating this, in response to a query about ECF:

***

Q: One of the first pro bodies I ever owned was the Canon EOS 3. I loved it quite specifically because of the Canon-exclusive Eye Controlled Focus. Not sure if I'm alone in this but, doing mostly documentary work, it was incredibly useful. Focusing became more instinctual the more I used the camera, allowing me to concentrate on the content of my work. Is Canon considering bringing Eye Controlled Focus back to any of the digital EOS bodies? Is there some technical limitation? I think that specific feature is one that photojournalists in particular would really appreciate.

A: At this point, it is reasonably clear that the absence of Eye Controlled Focus (ECF) in EOS digital SLRs is a marketing decision. There is no point in ruling out the possibility that ECF may be introduced in future EOS models, but I don't expect it to appear unless a sufficient level of market demand is perceived. So far, that has not happened, but your request has been forwarded to our Product Development Center.

http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0611/westfall.html
***

There we have it, straight from the horse's mouth. If anything, ECF should be more advanced now if they continued its R&D in the labs. Maybe "all-area ECF",as against limiting it to the visible AF pts., or even just making it more responsive & faster, would appear in an EOS 3D-body or 5D Mk.II. ;P
 
Did you wake up this thread just to inform us that you bought the april fools jokes today?

omg...

K

--
http://znapper.ath.cx/
 
No joke, just reading this forum and analysing what people are saying about the 5DII and new lens upgrades....ok, they are based on wishes and rumors, still no facts.
 
The spec of 450D 12MP is better than 40D 10MP
(unless the speed, AF and pentaprism).

Don't you think Canon should not release 450D to protect 40D sales.

Yet Canon needed to launch 450D to compete Nikon camp pressure.

I am willing to switch to Canon for the 5Dmk2
I highly doubt the specs of the 5DII you propose will be realised -
it would utterly devastate sales of the 1DsIII, as it has a better
spec than the 1DsIII in every area except sensor resolution and build
quality.

Canon COULD produce a camera with the specs you propose, but unless
they are willing to either withdraw the 1DsIII and give it
significantly better features when compared to the D3 and the
forthcoming D3x, OR they bite the bullet and allow their new 5DII to
obliterate sales of the flagship...

I think people waiting for a holy grail 5D replacement are going to
be disappointed. I would expect to see essentially a 40D with a full
frame sensor, nothing more.
 
Why, the sales of the 5D did lower the sales of the 1D MKII...now
that the competition is getting "harder", Canon certainly will go for
key-features to establish its position.
Canon don't seem interested in this approach.
They have proven several times in a row now, that they will try for
the minimum upgrade that will preserve their product heirarchy and
margins regardless of what customers think.
No wonder the the winner of Japan DSLR Market Share 2007 is Nikon.
Proven result of both camps strategy.
They are looking for a customer base that consists of those willing
to pay big margins. They don't care if those seeking value switch.

The '5DII' (7D - whatever) will be a 40D with larger sensor and lower
frame-rate.

There is still room for a 3D, but Canon have shown already that they
have no intention of making such a cam. - For the same reasons they
won't make the 5D what it could be/what you (and many others) want it
to be.

What's odd is that Canon did once see a place for the Eos 3 film camera.
But, it came only when film-cam sales had largely stagnated
pre-digital - perhaps as a way to tweak those last few $ from users.

Would be v sad if the 3D that so many would buy today, has been
strategically reserved for a final money-grab when the market has
already slowed down.
But if the number-crunchers have decided that that's the best way to
make the most money in the long-run, then that's what will happen.

I'm liking Nikon's attitude at the moment a lot better. More of a
build the best products we can, than a build the worst products we
can still sell.

Nikon just killed off both their flagship cams with the D300 and put
a new one in place with the D3. So, I guess there is a glimmer of
hope that Canon might also decide to shake things up.
But so soon after the 1DsIII and 1DIII hit the market? I doubt it.

The cams Nikon sacrificed were aging anyway...

Canon's rigid product line has painted them into a corner imho. They
now can't compete with Nikon's new cams without doing the unthinkable
and making a cam that cuts into 1 series sales. The only thing Canon
have that Nikon don't is the 1Ds, so Canon won't want to mess with
that. However, Nikon can kill that too with a D3x next year.

Leaving Canon with what? A new drebel?

Nice move Nikon.

--
Keep photography wild.
 

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