I'm sort of confused by Oly marketing

E510 is being replaced, hence being sold off, and already gone in many places.

I don't believe a word of the "can't get it" stuff either, that's weaselese for "we can't be bothered with Olympus, but since we want to make a sale, we'll lie to you to make it sound like the same is true all over, and then you can buy one of our poxy Canons."

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

jd_davis said:

From some of the things I have read recently though, there might be
some big changes coming. I still tend to think that Oly is locked in
to producing 4/3rds for quite a while. I don't feel threatened.

Click to expand...

I don't feel so much threatened as disenfranchised. I want to be able to go fondle and look over something that costs like an E-3 or a pro-quality lens prior to purchase. That's getting very hard to do, especially with the lenses. When I bought my 11-22, I had to rely on the folks here in the forum because there wasn't one in Portland to look at. Plus, when I asked about them I got the Canikon robo-spew that seems to be all the sales types know how to say. The cr*p some of the salesmen spout sounds like they used to sell cars.

I have the money right now for the E-3, but I'm sitting on it until the "other shoe" drops. At least until the E-520 is shown in detail.

No real argument with that opinion. I just think that unless people can get their paws on an Oly product, they'll be more and more swayed by the salesweasels. And, if true, what does the Canadian warranty announcement signify? We're selling all we can get so let's bump up the warranty? I don't think so.

James Sherman said:

ShelliDawn said:

He did say that
Oly only sold some P&S cameras through the big box stores, but never
a dSLR.

Click to expand...

Er.. I believe Best Buy is classified as a big box store. Then
there's Circuit City (expensive, but they're saying the E-420 is
coming soon), etc.

Click to expand...

I never said Best Buy wasn't a big box store. The guy at The Camera Store said that there was (at least) one model of Oly P&S that they couldn't sell; Oly only sold it to the big box stores.

James Sherman said:

James Sherman said:

It could be the other poster spoke with someone who was misinformed,
or I just did, but I would extremely surprised if the store couldn't
stock the 420.

Click to expand...

See above for why I have some doubt about his knowledge. I don't
doubt the E-420, because Oly is apparently trying to pitch it as a
"super P&S", but how much stock do they have of the more serious
variety?

Click to expand...

Doubt about whose knowledge? The other poster's (in the thread you linked to), the guy at the store? Also, which comment should I see about why you have doubts. I'm sorry, but it's just not clear to me.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shellidawn/

ShelliDawn said:

ShelliDawn said:

ShelliDawn said:

He did say that
Oly only sold some P&S cameras through the big box stores, but never
a dSLR.

Click to expand...

Er.. I believe Best Buy is classified as a big box store. Then
there's Circuit City (expensive, but they're saying the E-420 is
coming soon), etc.

Click to expand...

I never said Best Buy wasn't a big box store. The guy at The Camera
Store said that there was (at least) one model of Oly P&S that they
couldn't sell; Oly only sold it to the big box stores.

Click to expand...

OK, I'm confused. How do you reconcile "Oly only sold some P&S cameras through the big box stores, but never a dSLR." with E-510s and E-3s? They're not P&S. Most, if not all, big box stores sell P&S, true, but they certainly do sell DSLRs as well.

James Sherman said:

First I see a bunch of posts where people are saying that they can't
get Oly stuff locally because Oly has decided to go big box store
only. Then I see that Best Buy has discontinued the E-510. This
trend can't continue too long before Oly will be sold exclusively by
B&H (or whoever) at list price - followed very soon by their exit
from the market altogether.

Am I the only one who's a bit concerned about this? To me it seems a
bit suicidal.

Jim

Click to expand...

Oly, like other second-tier mfg's have stated a desire to take over a substantial percentage (however unrealistic the goal) of the DSLR market by "X" date. In order to do that, they have to sell cheap and wide. I don't see then dumping out of the "Best Buy's" of the World anytime soon. The E-510 is discontinued, it's pretty obvious and stores that can't be guaranteed a large amount of stock do not buy, this is what happened with the E-400 and the American market, which it never got to. Don't worry, the Olympus DSLRs will be in Walmart soon.
--



'I cried because I had no E-3. Then I met a man with no E-510'

Olympus E-510, E-330, Pentax K10D, 42 lenses of various types

Oly USA marketing is the pits in my opinion. Just go to their website and see how easy it is to get information.

Look for Oly adds in magazines. Look for Oly cameras in camera stores. Its a joke. I was in the Oly box at the US Open last year and they didn't even have a mockup of the E3. I asked their marketing folks about it and they didn't know what I was talking about. HELLO isn't this one of your major marketing forums.

Why didn't they time the E3 release with the Open?? Why don't you see any adds for their equipment on tv or even in mags. They do this in other areas just not North America. It does not make sense. They have good products, pretty good support but 0 marketing.

I'm not concerned particularly because Oly will continue to be popular in other areas and Oly America will continue to muddle through and we'll be able to get equipment, lenses, and accessories. We will also continue to ask what is going on with their marketing until the company (USA Division) decides they want to play on the same field with the big boys.

Maddog

Olympus E-510 and a bunch of stuff to hang on it.

because the dollar has collapsed.

This whole thread is hooey.

Oly have always been hard to get - the small shops can't be bothered (they can't afford slow sellers, they get lumbered with stocks) the big shops are forever falling out with Oly screwing them for insane discounts. Nothing new here.

The E510 is more or less sold out.

Prices will be going up for all brands - how much value has the dollar lost against the yen? Camera companies need yen, not dollars.

So, nothing intersting or different is happening.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

James Sherman said:

photo_owl said:

However it's also important to realise you are seeing Olympus USA in
action not Olympus.

Click to expand...

And Canada?

Click to expand...

Other's have responded about Canada.

In the UK you can now walk into a number of stores (camera ones) and touch and feel (if that's what does it for you) a much wider range than 2 years ago. Overall the unit volumes of E system bodies has increased significantly, and this is leading to the specialist shops carrying a wider and wider range. Needless to say (here) this includes the E3 body etc.

I think it's interesting that the US refused the E400 because it was happy with the 330 and 500 sales positions. UK and Europe took it because they didn't have the existing position. Relatively the EU seems to have taken off quicker with the recent consumer models.

When I went into the large camera store at Cologne (cathedral) early last December they already had the E3 and stocked the pro range lenses quite prominantly.

On the other hand when I tried to buy any Oly E gear in Tampa and Sarasota areas about 18 months ago I was faced with blank looks apart from an e500 single lens kit in one store - this was before Ritz included them again.

My interpretation is that oly are increasing their exposure in some areas but not all - and the US clearly continues to be dominated by Canikon so for otc sales the retail market will inevitably utilise most of it's shelf space and stock value in these areas.

However this is a long way from the view that it's getting worse.

--

• enjoy your camera equipment -

James Sherman said:

James Sherman said:

James Sherman said:

ShelliDawn said:

He did say that
Oly only sold some P&S cameras through the big box stores, but never
a dSLR.

Click to expand...

Er.. I believe Best Buy is classified as a big box store. Then
there's Circuit City (expensive, but they're saying the E-420 is
coming soon), etc.

Click to expand...

I never said Best Buy wasn't a big box store. The guy at The Camera
Store said that there was (at least) one model of Oly P&S that they
couldn't sell; Oly only sold it to the big box stores.

Click to expand...

OK, I'm confused. How do you reconcile "Oly only sold some P&S
cameras through the big box stores, but never a dSLR." with E-510s
and E-3s? They're not P&S. Most, if not all, big box stores sell
P&S, true, but they certainly do sell DSLRs as well.

Click to expand...

Ah! They (Oly) have never only sold a dSLR through big box stores. Hope that clarifies.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shellidawn/

But those whose availability is restricted will rise more.

Actually, other than the doomsday scenario where there's only a couple of outlets, I'm more concerned about people not being able to look at the things. I will NOT pay $1600 or whatever for an E-3 until I get my paws on one and see if it fits said paws, etc., etc. It's just too big an investment for the masses to take on faith. Most people want to at least look at what they're buying prior to plunking down that much cash. There wouldn't be so much frenzy here when the slightest detail of a new Oly product is posted otherwise. I just think Oly America couldn't sell money at a discount and in the end, that'll hurt the company.

ShelliDawn said:

Ah! They (Oly) have never only sold a dSLR through big box stores.
Hope that clarifies.

Click to expand...

Ah so! The "dangling only" strikes again...

photo_owl said:

On the other hand when I tried to buy any Oly E gear in Tampa and
Sarasota areas about 18 months ago I was faced with blank looks apart
from an e500 single lens kit in one store - this was before Ritz
included them again.

Click to expand...

Heh. I moved here from Bradenton. I've been in all those stores and you're right. If it's not getting worse, it's certainly never going to get better unless Oly America pulls it's head out...

James Sherman said:

But those whose availability is restricted will rise more.

Click to expand...

On what basis? They'll rise the same anyone else's.

James Sherman said:

Actually, other than the doomsday scenario where there's only a
couple of outlets, I'm more concerned about people not being able to
look at the things.

Click to expand...

That's always been the case.

I will NOT pay $1600 or whatever for an E-3

James Sherman said:

until I get my paws on one and see if it fits said paws, etc., etc.

Click to expand...

OK, fine, you'll have to travel or buy something else then. Ironically the E3 is the first Oly I have ever had the option of looking at in the UK locally (at Calumet, Drummond Street).

James Sherman said:

It's just too big an investment for the masses to take on faith.
Most people want to at least look at what they're buying prior to
plunking down that much cash.

Click to expand...

I wonder how cameras get sold on the internet then.

James Sherman said:

There wouldn't be so much frenzy here
when the slightest detail of a new Oly product is posted otherwise.

Click to expand...

I don't follow the logic of that...

James Sherman said:

I just think Oly America couldn't sell money at a discount and in the
end, that'll hurt the company.

Click to expand...

Quite possibly. But Olympus availability has not, overall, decreased, but increased.

The reality is stores do not want to hold Olympus stock. They can sell Canon and Nikon perfectly well, they won't get lumbered with obsolete stock, and in the case of Canon they already have a relationship with them through printers etc. That's why Canon is the market leader with not very good product. It has always been so, and it will continue for the forseeable future.

From Oly's point of view, things are getting better and better. Prior to the E500, nobody wanted to carry their stuff, and firms that had unwisely taken the E1 or E300 were badly burned. The E500 sold, the E330 was a toe in the water and not that many were made, and the 410 and 510 also sold well, this time in mass market outlets. The E3 has broadened their market, but it is an expensive camera from a niche maker, so if you want to see one in the flesh you may have to travel.

If you want to handle a camera locally, I'm sure everyone has the Canon 40D. I'd rather have herpes myself, but the option is there.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

For one thing, I suspect that John Q. Public is not the average member of this forum. This place has a lot of people who can afford several camera systems, for example. Most people can't. As someone else pointed out, Oly ads are a joke without any info, Oly marketing constantly shoots themselves in the foot (here in the US - your situation is obviously different). I haven't the coins to experiment. Most folks don't. I have to wait for reports from people here before I take a chance and buy mail order. I don't like that at all. And I'm in the minority of camera enthusiasts who belong to this forum. I'd bet most folks don't know it exits or at best read the review (just) and then make up their minds. As far as the controversial points in that review, Oly should have been all over it to correct the inaccuracies.

While I agree with your opinion of Canon (rubber gloves, please) I think Oly just isn't fighting for market share. Cameras aren't the only things that have to compete for shelf space and other companies seem to have figured that out. Oly needs to get out there and give the dealers some incentive to sell their stuff. "Trust me" doesn't work and sales shouldn't be a passive occupation.

A lot of store's here in the Phoenix Area will handle the Oly E510 and E410 fewer the E3 Most say they don't carry lenses or accessories because Oly is not that popular and Nikon and Cannon are the big dogs everyone wants..
--
From Arizona

(and Oly UK make Oly US look like a bunch of high achievers) but it doesn't address two core points:

1) Things are not getting worse, they are getting better.

2) With the best will in the world, the stores want to stock the market leader (Canon) and, so they appear to be offering a choice, the second place firm (Nikon). They may also stock stuff from a firm whose other consumer electronic goods they already sell (Sony). Most stores have never, don't, and never will stock Oly and Pentax.

So your root post effectively said "Are things getting worse?" and the answer is "No, they are getting better."

As for the implied complaint - "I can't find an E3 to try locally and it is all Oly's fault!" - well, I'm not surprised, and while Oly US are probably useless it isn't really their fault that stores don't want to stock an expensive camera they don't know they can sell when they have two alternatives they DO know they can sell.

I agree it is a PITA - I like to buy lenses off shops I know so I can return them if they are a naff sample. With Oly, this is difficult. Fortunately, in my case, Calumet UK, who had silently dropped Oly, are actively selling them again.

So you just have to accept that.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam

Louis_Dobson said:

1) Things are not getting worse, they are getting better.

Click to expand...

You could be right, but it doesn't look that way here.

Louis_Dobson said:

2) With the best will in the world, the stores want to stock the
market leader (Canon) and, so they appear to be offering a choice,
the second place firm (Nikon). They may also stock stuff from a firm
whose other consumer electronic goods they already sell (Sony). Most
stores have never, don't, and never will stock Oly and Pentax.

Click to expand...

If grocery stores operated that way, you'd have 2 choices of bread, one brand of - name it - the competition for shelf space is fierce. The salient point is competition. Oly mostly doesn't compete. As far as the grocery stores are concerned, they'd be ecstatic with a profit margin of 2%. They make a chunk of that off of vendor incentives. Again, Oly seems not to care. Different business, yes, but the same things are happening.

Louis_Dobson said:

So your root post effectively said "Are things getting worse?" and
the answer is "No, they are getting better."

Click to expand...

Well, so you say. Personally, I don't see it.

Louis_Dobson said:

As for the implied complaint - "I can't find an E3 to try locally and
it is all Oly's fault!" - well, I'm not surprised, and while Oly US
are probably useless it isn't really their fault that stores don't
want to stock an expensive camera they don't know they can sell when
they have two alternatives they DO know they can sell.

Click to expand...

My point you so frequently miss is that it's the Oly salesmans' JOB to make the store want to carry his product. What the hell do they pay them for?

Louis_Dobson said:

I agree it is a PITA - I like to buy lenses off shops I know so I can
return them if they are a naff sample.

Click to expand...

Me too, but I'd like to see some competitive pricing thrown into the pot. I don't expect a local store to underprice the big mail order firms, they simply can't. Oly could do something creative, though. Put a link on their web site pointing to dealers by city who have a full kit IN HAND and offer an incentive to people who buy through the stores AND the stores for keeping it going. That would put prices perhaps between the big mail order places and full list. A lot more people would see Oly equipment! The last time I looked at the Oly site, they didn't have any links pointing to dealers at all.

To illustrate Oly's DSLR lineup progression I will use Henry's Photography Show for the timeline. Many people will already know that Henry's is a large Canadian camera store chain. They have photography shows spring and fall each year.

In spring 2006 Oly had the entry level E-500, the E-330 which was an innovative but niche product, and the top of line E-1 that was almost 3 years old.

Fall 2006 they had the same lineup, no new bodies. Disappointing

Fall 2007 they had the E-410, E-510, E-330. The E-3 and SWD lenses were days away from being officially released. Oly's booth at this show was at least twice as big as Pentax's.

The spring 2008 show is coming in a month and they will have the E-420, E-510 (or possibly E-520), E-3, 3 SWD lenses, 70-300, 25mm pancake, 2.0 teleconverter and 2 updated wireless flashes.

In 2 years they have improved their camera and lens lineup substantially.

I live near downtown Toronto, so my experience is not typical, but I can walk to 2 camera retailers, 2 big box stores and an electronics discounter that sell Oly DSLRs. Plus several other retailers that sell Oly P&S cameras. There are at least 5 other stores in Canada that I can buy Oly DSLRs through their internet stores. Sure they are not as broadly distributed as C and N, but I don't see a problem with distribution or availability.

I regularly see billboards, magazine ads Rangefinder magazine, Canadian Geograpphic) and web ads (DPReview, Weathernetwork) advertising Oly DSLRs. That did not happen 2 years ago.

They even have a try before you buy program called Livedrive.

If you want a brand that has huge shelf space in every store, and you see hanging around evey pro's and soccer mom's neck, Oly is not the right brand for you. C and N have huge market share, so Oly sells on innovation and differentiation.

Poke at Oly's efforts all you want, but it is easy to see the progress they have made recently.
--
BruceMcK
http://www.pbase.com/brucemck

GreatLaker said:

If you want a brand that has huge shelf space in every store, and you
see hanging around evey pro's and soccer mom's neck, Oly is not the
right brand for you. C and N have huge market share, so Oly sells on
innovation and differentiation.

Click to expand...

Please don't take this personally, but I have only Oly equipment and if I had all those things in my city, I'd probably feel like you. I don't, so I don't. I had to buy my 14-54, 11-22 and 70-300 sight unseen, just like my friend had to buy his 50-200. If I hadn't (back in the dark ages) had a film Stylus that was a darn good camera (bought on price at Wal-Mart in Florida), I'd likely be one of the sweaty masses lugging Canons around in ignorance.

GreatLaker said:

Poke at Oly's efforts all you want, but it is easy to see the
progress they have made recently.

Click to expand...

The advancement in the equipment I have no beef with, it's their pathetic marketing of that equipment. I saw the posts about the complete lack of knowledge of the E-3 by Oly marketing types at the Oly sponsored golf tournament just before or as it was announced (don't play golf). I DON'T see ads by Olympus, but I see wads of them by Canon and Nikon. I see TV shows and movies with Canikon equipment prominently displayed - called product placement (like suddenly most of the TV cops are driving Dodge Chargers). They could be using Oly cameras for forensics shots, too.

They're (Oly marketing) not doing diddly, but they're better than they used to be? From my P.O.V., they'd have had to have been buying the ads for Canikon to be doing much worse. People just aren't going to buy what they never see and can't become familiar with. Olys' concentration on, um, whatever they're concentrating on just isn't getting the word out.