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A New Challenge - Sony?

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Brian Aitkenhead

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Right before i go any further, this thread is not a slur in any way towards Canon, more an idea towards the Future of the Professional Camera market,its just for fun....

Later this year it is looking very likely that Sony will release a 5D sized 'Pro' body with around 25Mpx and presumably 1D/D3/E3 build quality, my question is this... how will Canon react to this? i am not looking for crystal Balls or anything just what the very well informed (or not) members on here think will happen....

will the 5D mkII be of a similar specification to the Sony? if so will this make the 5D mk II to expensive for your average 5D user to upgrade too?

for me it would make sense to release the fabled 3D as competition for both the Sony and any potential new Nikon in that category and make the 5D mk II more as competition for the D300 and the rumored Sony A800.

how this would impact with the sales of the 1Ds/D Series? who knows but i suspect Canon may have to start diversifying there pro sector cameras or face losing large chunks of the pro market...

maybe you dont care, and really i dont either but i find it fun to see what the market may bring..... :)

http://www.pbase.com/briandavidaitkenhead
 
At the end, its not about the tools, its the result that matters. A pro will get his/her shot with any equipment. You choose your tools like any other craftsman - for what you are doing.

Yes, there always will be those prosumers or pro wanna bees, who have the $$$ and need the tools just for a show off (with a 500MM-L and + 1.4 + 2.0 and taking a shot of a girls nasal hair 20 feet away).

at the same time, when you have about 100K$ worth of lenses, boxes, flashed etc you don't just jump brand.

At the end of the day 99.6% of all pictures taken need to be no more than 4MP for your lovely print in News, web or your family's 6x9 photo album.
 
Without knowing the price of the Sony "A900"
it's hard to know whether Canon will try to
compete with it using the 5D II or the 1Ds MkIII.
I suspect the "A900" will be closer in price
to the 1Ds MkIII than the Nikon D3, but that's
just pure speculation of course.

--
Matt Cham

My Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/mattcham/
 
will Sony take a big gamble? if they price it at the D3 market, they are almost certainly going to take a hit on the price of those FF 25 mpx sensors...the question is can even Sony as big as it is afford to run at a loss in an attempt to capture some of the pro market.... who knows, and as many people have said, pro's dont normally change systems without a good reason and i don't believe that the A900 brings anything particularly attractive to the table other than even smaller pixels than the 1Ds mkIII, i may be wrong but i don't see Sony making massive inroads until they prove that they will be a long term player in the DSLR market, at the moment they seem to be trying to capture a share at the lower end so that may go a long way to determine there future.

still i don't think Canon can rest upon what Sony does, maybe they should be keeping an eye on what Nikon's next move will be...
 
Sony seems to push technology for the sake of marketing. Look at the Playstation 3.. latest and greatest in technology, but its getting killed by Nintendo because while there is a segment of the market that wants the latest and greatest, there are also most who just want something that works well and is affordable.

Sony's new camera might attact those who want the latest and greatest, but if you have ever looked at Sony's pricing strategy, there is no way its going to be competitive to the 5d or 5d II. Take a look at Sony TV's.. good specs, overpriced. Sony PS3.. good specs, overpriced...

While everyone is whining about Canon not being innovative enough, they seem to be tops or darn near the top in the 1 thing that people SHOULD be concerned about when taking a photo.. Image Quality.. Its that consistency that pros are looking for. They KNOW if they buy a Canon they are getting the best or damn near the best IQ of any camera available in that range. Nikon may have SLIGHTLY surpassed them in their latest offering, but its still EXTREMELY close.

If Sony does release a 25mp FF camera, I can almost guarantee you its going to have worse IQ than the Nikon and Canon offerings. Because Sony simply pushes technology for the sake of marketing. So, my prediction is Canon isn't going to do a damn thing to 'respond' to Sony because they don't have to. Canon hasn't gotten to its position by making stupid decisions. Slow and steady wins the race..

I think part of the reason why Nikon's D3/D300 is looked at as such a great thing is that Nikon had set the bar so low that it seems like they made some great advance in technology. In reality, they may have just barely beat Canon. But because Canon simply does small calculated improvements to their already outstanding cameras, the technology fanboys think there is something they need to do different. I can tell you for sure that the D4/D400 or whatever it will be called will not be nearly as big of a jump because Nikon will not be playing catch up like they were with the D3/D300.

But anyways I got a bit offtopic.. Canon's response to Sony will be to keep doing what their doing, because its made them the most popular camera manufacturer on the planet.
 
A sony offering is likely to interest those who do not possess an existing arsenal of lenses, or already use sony gear. however, as a pro level product it will be pose yet another challenge in performance and spec terms to canon and nikon, and likely at a much more competitive price. as both a canon and nikon user, who had to move to the D3 from the 1D MKIII (2 samples returned) and still uses a 5D, i hope than canon will soon release the 3D and make it a tour de force. besides the specs already rumoured i would like to see an lcd that flips up, in-body stabiisation (not critical but hugely useful for the use of existing lenses without having to fork out for fast IS lenses), inbuilt flash, and an optional crop factor to extend focal length at half the rumoured resolution. price? sub £2000 ($4000). i would like it to at least match the iq of the 5D and 1D MKIII, with much improved wb, especially in artificial/low light.

I have always suspected that due to the new stiff competition from Nikon that Canon held back the manufacture/release of an updated 5D to revise its specs and sort out the AF issue(s) that emerged with the MKIII. I'm not interested in an endless list of cf functions, especially relating to af that just serve to muddy the waters and over-complicate picture-taking. Ultimately, Canon would be creating a new level of serious am/pro camera as they did with the 5D (that with some updating should stay in production).

While Canon has pretty well sorted its lower level offerings its efforts at higher level gear (I had a 40D and got rid - very disappointing) have not set new performance levels with tech quality under question. Effectively what Nikon and Sony have done/are doing, is to lift the bar with Canon now struggling below it. And the 3D would attract volume sales that the 1DS MKIII could only dream about... And to those that scoff at people like me wanting this kind of product should realise that for certain shooting scenarios (concerts in my case) that the right product can make all the difference - the D3 has proved that.

Tony
 
While I doubt Sony's offering is going to sway those away who have major glass investments, like others have said......never the less, Sony is going to be the 800lb Gorilla. Their hands are in more technology than they know what to do with. I think Canon should be worried, but it all depends on Sony's intentions and how badly they want a fight. Sony generally doesn't make the best of the best sort of stuff. They make very good stuff all around, but like it has been said, they are overpriced.

--
I have a love affair with light.
 
Frankly, and I know this doesn't have anything to do with the OP, but until Sony quits using misleading advertising, I can't take them seriously. Anyone seen the most recent Sony DSLR ads? One, about shooting "in the moment" uses an image from the building of the Empire State building, implying that a Sony camera took the image. Another one, I know I saw in a National Geographic article years ago, it's a cheetah bringing down an antelope. I'd swear that one was shot with a Nikon, but I'm not sure. Sony just bought them from a stock agency, probably Getty, and puts them in ads to make consumers think that Sony cameras were responsible for the shots. I find such advertising disgusting, and I don't care if it is Canon, Nikon or Sony who does it. And don't get me started on the old ads that basically said that Sony in camera image stabilization prevented all blurred photos. Sheesh.
Rant over.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
Kristjan Kotkas said:
At the end, its not about the tools, its the result that matters. A
pro will get his/her shot with any equipment. You choose your tools
like any other craftsman - for what you are doing.

Yes, there always will be those prosumers or pro wanna bees, who have
the $$$ and need the tools just for a show off (with a 500MM-L and +
1.4 + 2.0 and taking a shot of a girls nasal hair 20 feet away).
Click to expand...
There are also Prosumers who love taking photographs and enjoy the benefits good gear provides, and some may be genuinely interested in stepping up a level too.

Pro Wanna Bees and show ponies will always buy the latest and greatest to show off and create an image of themselves, and usually believe it's the gear that creates the photo, not the person behind the lens. Usually identified by the way they manage to tell you all about what gear they have when you don't ask about it.
Kristjan Kotkas said:
at the same time, when you have about 100K$ worth of lenses, boxes,
flashed etc you don't just jump brand.
Click to expand...
This seems to be the bit most people forget about when talking about jumping between brands. I suspect many recent jumps to the Nikon D3 have been old Nikon users(who already have the lenses) returning to Nikon, and the users who have one or two lenses, and no other major investment in gear.
Kristjan Kotkas said:
At the end of the day 99.6% of all pictures taken need to be no more
than 4MP for your lovely print in News, web or your family's 6x9
photo album.
Click to expand...
Andrew
 
I remember more than a decade ago a magazine ad was something like 'I didn't see it, but my Pentax did', then it was a motor racing photo taken with a Nikon set-up. It's just advertising. Don't read too much into it. The idea is to make people link the image with the product, they never say it's actually taken with the product.

Maybe they should learn from the instant noodle makers and put 'Composition suggestion' under their wonderful ad images...
Max
Skip M said:
Frankly, and I know this doesn't have anything to do with the OP, but
until Sony quits using misleading advertising, I can't take them
seriously. Anyone seen the most recent Sony DSLR ads? One, about
shooting "in the moment" uses an image from the building of the
Empire State building, implying that a Sony camera took the image.
Another one, I know I saw in a National Geographic article years ago,
it's a cheetah bringing down an antelope. I'd swear that one was
shot with a Nikon, but I'm not sure. Sony just bought them from a
stock agency, probably Getty, and puts them in ads to make consumers
think that Sony cameras were responsible for the shots. I find such
advertising disgusting, and I don't care if it is Canon, Nikon or
Sony who does it. And don't get me started on the old ads that
basically said that Sony in camera image stabilization prevented all
blurred photos. Sheesh.
Rant over.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
Click to expand...
 
I agree with 65Tigershark. Your "jump ship" group that went from Canon to Nikon are either Nikon to begin with and only because Canon was so good for so long and Nikon offerings behind, did they originally move to Canon. If anyone really thinks that Canon is that bad and has to jump ship at the drop of a hat, then they are thickle to begin with and probably are very hard to make happy.

--
I have a love affair with light.
 
I think under current law the Pentax ad would be considered to be false and misleading. I doubt they'd run it.

The issue of the food is different. The problem is that for technical reasons the food shots don't look like the actual food so they have to do some special effects, which ends up with the disclaimer.
maxz said:
I remember more than a decade ago a magazine ad was something like 'I
didn't see it, but my Pentax did', then it was a motor racing photo
taken with a Nikon set-up. It's just advertising. Don't read too much
into it. The idea is to make people link the image with the product,
they never say it's actually taken with the product.
Maybe they should learn from the instant noodle makers and put
'Composition suggestion' under their wonderful ad images...
Max
Click to expand...
 
For me, Sony should have kept the Minolta or Konica-Minolta brand and used that for its cameras.

It is also rather...crass, for want of a better expression, the way they label their entry level DSLR's with the megapixel count and perhaps hints at what they think is important from a marketing point of view - wonder if the A900 will have '25 million pixels' emblazoned across it.

Minor details for sure, interesting months ahead in the digital camera world.
 
Brian Aitkenhead said:
Right before i go any further, this thread is not a slur in any way
towards Canon, more an idea towards the Future of the Professional
Camera market,its just for fun....

Later this year it is looking very likely that Sony will release a 5D
sized 'Pro' body with around 25Mpx and presumably 1D/D3/E3 build
quality, my question is this... how will Canon react to this? i am
not looking for crystal Balls or anything just what the very well
informed (or not) members on here think will happen....
Click to expand...
Canon will probably do nothing. It recently released the 21mp 1DSIII, so it is unlikely to replace this model so soon after its release.
Brian Aitkenhead said:
will the 5D mkII be of a similar specification to the Sony? if so
will this make the 5D mk II to expensive for your average 5D user to
upgrade too?
Click to expand...
The 5DII will most likely have a couple more megapixels than the 5D, meaning it should have around 14mp. This will preserve image quality, high ISO performance, and make it easier to achieve 5fps or close to it.
Brian Aitkenhead said:
for me it would make sense to release the fabled 3D as competition
for both the Sony and any potential new Nikon in that category and
make the 5D mk II more as competition for the D300 and the rumored
Sony A800.
Click to expand...
It has been suggested that the 5D will be split into two models, one with more pixels and sells for more, and a cheaper full frame model. This is certainly possible but it may not be probable.
Brian Aitkenhead said:
how this would impact with the sales of the 1Ds/D Series? who knows
but i suspect Canon may have to start diversifying there pro sector
cameras or face losing large chunks of the pro market...
Click to expand...
The pro market is a small one. There may not be room for so many models. I think Canon needs to upgrade the 1D to a full frame model as soon as possible, before the Nikon D3 takes away too much of the sports camera market away from Canon.
Brian Aitkenhead said:
maybe you dont care, and really i dont either but i find it fun to
see what the market may bring..... :)

http://www.pbase.com/briandavidaitkenhead
Click to expand...
Many of us care, or else we won't be reading these forums or at least these threads.
 
Anastigmat wrote:

"The pro market is a small one. There may not be room for so many models. I think Canon needs to upgrade the 1D to a full frame model as soon as possible, before the Nikon D3 takes away too much of the sports camera market away from Canon."

Oh do I ever agree with this one. As has been mentioned before on this forum, Canon should move the 1.3 crop sensor to the 40d/50d lineup and the xti. Or leave the xti at a 1.6 crop. If FF digital is the future, all 1D's should have it.

--
I have a love affair with light.
 
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